bonzelite

iTrader: (2)

perhaps the combination of the lighter alloys and the lower profile tires (from 65 to 50) have resulted in considerably less understeer on my 3rd gen maxima. whereas before, as compared to my RWD S14, i had to overcome the inherent effects of FWD understeer to enable the front to turn, suddenly, with this new setup, the front seems far more nimble and light. it turns quite easily and is a pleasure. it is not of the RWD feeling by any means, but it is amazingly different.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Try going to 195's ONLY in the rear and you'll get more neutral.

At least that's what SCC says, "encourages more neutral handling characteristics and is a popular setup with Japanese 'grip' drivers".

BTW, they had 205/50-15 in front and 195/55-15 in the rear, so you may need to do the math or try a couple different tires.

bonzelite

iTrader: (2)

currently, for the rear i have the maxima SE stockies still on there. the tires for those are 205/65/15. the skyline GTS-t stockies in front are 205/50/16. now >>> i am awaiting to see a wee bit more cash to do the rears: GTR stockies. those will be 255/50/16 - wider. GTR's are 8" wide. GTS-t's are 6.5". we shall see how this combo acts. it will either be cool or a mistake. it will at least look cool, provided that the offsets of the rear rims will not make them stick out too much from the fender wells. that may invite stupid looks. i will cite results here when i do this. it will be soon.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

FWD needs wider in front than rear.

EZEMaxima

There is alot of variables the you change that could have affected the handling of your car. Lighter rims....wider tires.....lower profile and maybe a new brand tire with more aggressive performance rating. And last....you just change the front and kept the back the same it was.

bonzelite

iTrader: (2)

i understand. i will try wider in rear anyway. i will probably notice a difference immediately either good or bad. i have lots of rims and tires to experiment with.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Please let me know, however I doubt I'd ever run different sizes.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Even though I've never experienced this myself, but I'm willing to bet that;

The car will feel steering heavy, less responsive.
It will not oversteer at all.
Understeer will become much more pronounced.

DW

bonzelite

iTrader: (2)

yes. the oversteer that is already barely to exist in FWD will probably be absolutely gone with wider rubber in the rear. with RWD that is good, as oversteer in that setup can get out of hand. whereas FWD can use a bit of oversteer to help the cause.

as of now, the rear and front tires are the same width, the front ones being lower-profile. with that setup the understeer problem of FWD has been significantly negated, the car feels steering-light, more responsive. so things are hunky-dory for now. nonetheless, i want to see the effect of wider tires in the rear on FWD. i am not in any way thinking it is a great idea, as i have never seen it done. it may look cool. but that may be it. acutally, i saw the other day a guy with a 3rd gen with wide tires all the way around that stuck out of the fender wells a bit. it looked pretty dumb!

bonzelite

iTrader: (2)

btw, the tires in the front i'm running are the Michelin Pilot HX's. they are a good street/performance tire, yet not for auto-x. the steering feel is amazing.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

I think I achieve similar results with the same size tire all around by making the fronts really hard with high tire pressure, and keep the rear pressure near stock. I usually run 37-38 psi in the front and 29-30 in the rear.

DW

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

If I'm not mistaken wouldn't that increase understeer?

You want the rears to let go more, NOT the fronts.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

It might, I'm not sure. I figure since 60% of the car's weight is pushing down on the front wheels, the increase in understeer would be minimal, compared to the much enhanced road feel. The net result would be that I can more confidentally approach the tire's limits. You don't how often I pass someone and I take the OUTSIDE corner to do it And they look so surprised I remained composed. I feel more confident driving at 7/10s with this setup than with the stock pressure. If I were to auto-X, I guess I'd feel that earlier limit, but on the street, it's great

DW

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Odd thread: Poster has a 3-gen sooooo the best thing to do is to get the ADDCO RSB. Diff wheels/tire pressures are like using a band-aid to fix a gun wound. It can make small differences but it won't make an understeering car neutral or a neutral car oversteer etc...

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I'm pretty sure you're just enticing more understeer, which is what "average" drivers, ESPECIALLY in FWD cars, feel more confident controlling.

What tires and suspension mods do you have?

bonzelite

iTrader: (2)

more clarity: i had 'stock' spec 205/65/r15's in front and back. i changed the fronts to 205/50/Zr16. the rims are from a skyline GTS-t. and suddenly the understeer became highly negated. drastically so. the Mich HX's are softer tires with far better grip than the Bridgestones i had on the front. and the front pressure is up to the mfg. spec of 51psi. so the front rubber is softer but the tire is stiffer. stiffer yet because it is a 50. this is basically what "dwapenyi" describes. the understeer problem of the FWD is not gone, but is highly diminished.

i do have an ST RSB, FSB, and Stillen FSTB. band aid or not, swapping the fronts as i have, which is all i have done so far, has created a great time for me. perhaps try it yourself. the effect of the easier steering feel is instant and unquestionable.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

So you're calling me average. Well, I feel that understeer is easier to handle in FWD car than oversteer. When my car oversteers, it's quite abrupt, probably b/c the rear end is so light. RWD has the advantage that more weight is in the back, so oversteer can be more controlled. The wheels that carry the heavier weight will reach their limits in a more smooth fashion.

Oh, and I have 17x7s, 225/45/17 Kumhos 712s, and and FSTB and RSB.

DW

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

That's EXACTLY why you like it more and EXACTLY why the OEM sells cars setup to understeer for the average driver.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

51psi!!!!!!

JoO crazy man. Are you sure about the manufacturer recommending that?

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Well, since you're implying that I'm average, I don't think so, because the average driver doesn't even know what oversteer or understeer is, let alone pushes their car to the point that they reach it. Yes, an understeering car is better for the average driver, but I don't think oversteer can be induced very predictably in a Maxima, either. I'd probably feel different at the track because you have much much more room to maneuver, so it would be easier to deal with. But on the street, nope. I've had my car with the rear tires over-inflated, and when oversteer sets in, the only thing to do was accelerate or make your turn wider. On the street, those options are not always available. So, braking from understeer is what I set it to.

DW

xHypex

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like the manufacturer spec Max pressure to me (if anything at all). Most tires I've seen have a max psi around 44psi unless they're for heavy loads.
-hype

bonzelite

iTrader: (2)

yes. the 51 psi is maximum pressure. i double looked at the sidewall. and for dwapenyi, i was agreeing with you, dude. we were saying the same thing about understeer earlier on. where did you get someone calling you average from? what do you mean? you like the extreme understeer of FWD? i'm confused about where you are. my whole deal here is about FWD's understeer and how it is instantly minimized by putting stiffer (psi-wise), lower profile rubber on the front. i got into oversteer because of my idea to put wider tires on the rear of a FWD car - something that may hamper ANY oversteer, even the microscopic kind that helps in cornering, ie, i may find i hate it.

for me, i like the negated understeer feeling far better. there is more response from the front end of the FWD setup. and, yes, when the rear breaks loose on FWD it is often sudden and dangerous feeling.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

It wasn't you, bonzelite. Icey2K1. And your idea with a lower profile tire up front I like. We were achieveing similar results with different means. Mine was just cheaper I think the ideal setup on a Maxima is understeer with follow on oversteer. Get the tail to start going out just after the front does. Not quite a slide that a RWD car with a 50/50 weight distribution can achieve like a ballerina, but pretty nifty.

So, Icey2K1, can you make your Maxima oversteer in a more controllable manner like most RWD cars, like Benzes, BMWs etc?

DW

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Man you got me all backwards. My point WAS that your desired understeer is NORMAL. Manufacturers set cars up to understeer ESPECIALLY fwd, so any joe/jane/granny off the street can drive it withOUT accidently spinning out due to oversteer.

No. However, I do like the reduction in understeer that my RSB added. Of course it's not PERFECLY balanced like a RWD BMW or something, but it definitely turns in nicer. Still no where near oversteer though.

I'm hoping to setup and corner balance my JIC's to get as close as possible to neutral.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

OK. My bad. Coilovers would be coil on the track. Call me soft, but I couldn't take them day to day on the street

DW

KsuMax

Do you have any pics of the R32 wheels? I'm interested to what they would look like on a max.

bonzelite

iTrader: (2)

i will post the pics very soon. i only have the r32 rims on the front right now. they look great. very aggressive. i have had the wheels for months but only just recently got rubber for them.

what i do like about FWD is that it sticks to the road better, generally, than RWD, ie, there is no fear of the rear suddenly swinging out at the slightest tap of the gas. i can confidently dive into corners with FWD knowing the car will stick fast and soundly recover, especially with the upgraded anti-sway bars and lowering springs. like others have said here, the understeer of FWD can be good, as it ensures that the spirited driver will not do a 180-degree spinout. or worse.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

bonzelite,

You don't really run 51-psi in the FRONT, do you? You'd get MUCH better grip out of the fronts and DRAMATICALLY reduce your understeer even more. I used to run 41-psi(MAX cold is 44psi I think) and it rode like a rock and pushed like a ****. I dropped to the recommended 32psi F/R and it made far less understeer. The ride quality improvement was HUGE. I did lose some steering feel though.

You should try droping the pressure in the FRONT and keep the rear high to reduce understeer.

bonzelite

iTrader: (2)

IceY2K1,

ok. wow. you are "awake." great point you make >>> i have 40psi in rear, 35psi in front. "51psi" is mfg maximum allowance. i apologize for that misunderstanding/misinformation. too hard in front would offer less traction, perhaps, and seem to make the car plow through corners even more, creating more understeer. with the 35psi in front, as i am running now, coupled with the lo-pro hi-grip tires, and 40psi in the rear, i have amazing steering feel and response. i am comparing this new feel to what i have had for the past 6 years of ownership: stock wheels and OEM spec tires. your psi lesson is a great one. i have learned a lot.

someone inquired about pix, so i went ahead and took some of the car as it is now. i should get them back in about 3 days. i will then post them on here. i have never posted pictures here before, so i will have to figure it out. itz prolly pretty easy.