Dyno numbers and an interesting story... :wall:
05-18-2003, 12:48 PM
#1
Dyno numbers and an interesting story... :wall:
Well, I have been running extremely lean for the past 3-4 months because the Walbro intank fuel pump wasn't working correctly. The pump would not put out the pressure and flow needed for anything over 4 psi. Best of all, I didn't find out about the bad pump until 2 weeks ago. 
So, get an in-cabin fuel pressure gauge!!!
Run #1: 317.3 whp, 314.4 tq
Run #2: 311.9 whp, 318.7 tq
Run #3: 308.5 whp, 317.4 tq
Here goes the dyno graph (best SC = red, best TC = blue):
We did 5 runs total, with each run putting out less and less hp after 5225 RPM. The largest difference in power (with all 6 cylinders semi-working) at 6500 is about 130 wheel hp and 120 ft-lb torque.
Here are pictures of the plugs after run #4:
http://boostedmaximas.com/y2kevse/im...no_turbo1a.jpg
http://boostedmaximas.com/y2kevse/im...no_turbo1b.jpg
http://boostedmaximas.com/y2kevse/im...no_turbo1c.jpg
I wasn't running the Aquamist water injection on the turbo dynos since the pump broke (found out 1.5 weeks ago). Both SC and TC dynos weren't fully tuned, so it may not be fair to compare the two without them being at their best hp and tq.
Did a compression check when I got home. Cylinders #1 through 5 are good, but #6 is a little weak.
Lesson of the day: Get an in-cabin fuel pressure gauge.
So, get an in-cabin fuel pressure gauge!!!Run #1: 317.3 whp, 314.4 tq
Run #2: 311.9 whp, 318.7 tq
Run #3: 308.5 whp, 317.4 tq
Here goes the dyno graph (best SC = red, best TC = blue):
We did 5 runs total, with each run putting out less and less hp after 5225 RPM. The largest difference in power (with all 6 cylinders semi-working) at 6500 is about 130 wheel hp and 120 ft-lb torque.
Here are pictures of the plugs after run #4:
http://boostedmaximas.com/y2kevse/im...no_turbo1a.jpg
http://boostedmaximas.com/y2kevse/im...no_turbo1b.jpg
http://boostedmaximas.com/y2kevse/im...no_turbo1c.jpg
I wasn't running the Aquamist water injection on the turbo dynos since the pump broke (found out 1.5 weeks ago). Both SC and TC dynos weren't fully tuned, so it may not be fair to compare the two without them being at their best hp and tq.
Did a compression check when I got home. Cylinders #1 through 5 are good, but #6 is a little weak.
Lesson of the day: Get an in-cabin fuel pressure gauge.
05-18-2003, 01:23 PM
#5
looks good.. the TQ is really great 
you think the bad cylinder is why you have a lull from 4700 - 6000?? or you think that is the fuel pump?
and do you make your peak HP at 4500 or 6500???
Your dyno is odd, kev... but maybe I am just not used to looking at a boosted 5th gen's
Maybe it is your engine/fuel???
I am just trying to understand it. The HP dips before the VIAS comes on, but the TQ does not. The HP also stays in that little valley for 1500 rpm.. granted, it is a 300 WHP valley so it ain't bad just different.
You running what size downpipe and exhaust?
thanks, I am just trying to get a good idea of what your seeing, I might need it in the future
you think the bad cylinder is why you have a lull from 4700 - 6000?? or you think that is the fuel pump?
and do you make your peak HP at 4500 or 6500???
Your dyno is odd, kev... but maybe I am just not used to looking at a boosted 5th gen's
Maybe it is your engine/fuel???
I am just trying to understand it. The HP dips before the VIAS comes on, but the TQ does not. The HP also stays in that little valley for 1500 rpm.. granted, it is a 300 WHP valley so it ain't bad just different.
You running what size downpipe and exhaust?
thanks, I am just trying to get a good idea of what your seeing, I might need it in the future
05-18-2003, 04:44 PM
#11
317 whp? Hmm, assuming a 17% loss thru the 5 speed tranny, that would be about 382 hp at the crank and 378 lb-ft of TQ. I guess that's adequate
Was your dyno session lean? It looks like it's rich , if anything. And our loss of power during each run, could that be atrributed simply to heat, of which a turbo setup must generate ALOT? And your plastic VIAS may not be able to dissipate that heat as fast as a metal manifold may have. When I dynoed NA, I kept getting weaker by 1 hp after each run.
Was your dyno session lean? It looks like it's rich , if anything. And our loss of power during each run, could that be atrributed simply to heat, of which a turbo setup must generate ALOT? And your plastic VIAS may not be able to dissipate that heat as fast as a metal manifold may have. When I dynoed NA, I kept getting weaker by 1 hp after each run.
05-18-2003, 09:06 PM
#17
Dammit Kev, no fuel pressure gauge? 
Sorry to hear that. Whats your compression on cyl #6? I had a walborro pump go bad on me last year. Wouldn't hold pressure, started dropping down to 20psi, I had to bump it up with the AEM FPR or my car woulda died. I pulled the pump and was gonna send it back for warranty replacement when my car was broken into and it was stolen out of my trunk. Dumb kids stole a broke a$$ fuel pump, I hope they tried installing it in some ricer mobile 
Numbers HP wise look pretty good... I'm assuming thats your 5spd S/C dyno your comparing it with?
Sorry to hear that. Whats your compression on cyl #6? I had a walborro pump go bad on me last year. Wouldn't hold pressure, started dropping down to 20psi, I had to bump it up with the AEM FPR or my car woulda died. I pulled the pump and was gonna send it back for warranty replacement when my car was broken into and it was stolen out of my trunk. Dumb kids stole a broke a$$ fuel pump, I hope they tried installing it in some ricer mobile Numbers HP wise look pretty good... I'm assuming thats your 5spd S/C dyno your comparing it with?
05-18-2003, 09:27 PM
#18
you were running turbo and NOS without a fuel pressure gauge?? oh man.. why did THAT walbro in your car had to break, and damaging your cylinder #6. Well you took a calculated risk when you were running without the FP gauge, and the .001% chance that the fuel pump would go bad became real. it sucks. sorry to hear that.
05-18-2003, 11:08 PM
#19
Originally posted by MardiGrasMax
Not too shabby. IC must help the TC a bit, even more when its rolling im sure. You runing just water or a alch/water mix? J&S?
Not too shabby. IC must help the TC a bit, even more when its rolling im sure. You runing just water or a alch/water mix? J&S?
No J&S.
Originally posted by bags533
looks good.. the TQ is really great :-)
you think the bad cylinder is why you have a lull from 4700 - 6000?? or you think that is the fuel pump?
and do you make your peak HP at 4500 or 6500???
Your dyno is odd, kev... but maybe I am just not used to looking at a boosted 5th gen's
Maybe it is your engine/fuel???
I am just trying to understand it. The HP dips before the VIAS comes on, but the TQ does not. The HP also stays in that little valley for 1500 rpm.. granted, it is a 300 WHP valley so it ain't bad just different.
You running what size downpipe and exhaust?
thanks, I am just trying to get a good idea of what your seeing, I might need it in the future
looks good.. the TQ is really great :-)
you think the bad cylinder is why you have a lull from 4700 - 6000?? or you think that is the fuel pump?
and do you make your peak HP at 4500 or 6500???
Your dyno is odd, kev... but maybe I am just not used to looking at a boosted 5th gen's
Maybe it is your engine/fuel???
I am just trying to understand it. The HP dips before the VIAS comes on, but the TQ does not. The HP also stays in that little valley for 1500 rpm.. granted, it is a 300 WHP valley so it ain't bad just different.
You running what size downpipe and exhaust?
thanks, I am just trying to get a good idea of what your seeing, I might need it in the future
Torque decreases as the RPM goes up. So at 4700, it makes ~317 torque. Then it dips until it hits ~250 at 6500. Peak hp is at about 6000... but I think it would have been stronger if the car was running correctly. Torque dips... hp rises.3" downpipe into 2.5" cat and cat-back.
Originally posted by MAXIN
What plugs are you running, and at what gap?
What plugs are you running, and at what gap?
Originally posted by MardiGrasMax
Kev, were you auto for the SC dynos and 5spd for the TC dynos?
Kev, were you auto for the SC dynos and 5spd for the TC dynos?
Originally posted by Padsy 02 6sp
Stay with it Kev......
Stay with it Kev......
Originally posted by Methamphetamine
You havent beat Jaime YET
You havent beat Jaime YET
Originally posted by Padsy 02 6sp
At least Jane's car is running.
I've got $20 that says she could whoop Kev's ****.
At the track boys.:kiss
At least Jane's car is running.
I've got $20 that says she could whoop Kev's ****.
At the track boys.:kiss
Originally posted by dwapenyi
317 whp? Hmm, assuming a 17% loss thru the 5 speed tranny, that would be about 382 hp at the crank and 378 lb-ft of TQ. I guess that's adequate:wall :-)
Was your dyno session lean? It looks like it's rich , if anything. And our loss of power during each run, could that be atrributed simply to heat, of which a turbo setup must generate ALOT? And your plastic VIAS may not be able to dissipate that heat as fast as a metal manifold may have. When I dynoed NA, I kept getting weaker by 1 hp after each run.
317 whp? Hmm, assuming a 17% loss thru the 5 speed tranny, that would be about 382 hp at the crank and 378 lb-ft of TQ. I guess that's adequate:wall :-)
Was your dyno session lean? It looks like it's rich , if anything. And our loss of power during each run, could that be atrributed simply to heat, of which a turbo setup must generate ALOT? And your plastic VIAS may not be able to dissipate that heat as fast as a metal manifold may have. When I dynoed NA, I kept getting weaker by 1 hp after each run.
5-15 hp... yeah that's understandable, but 70 hp after each run? That makes one wonder....
Originally posted by LatinMax
What did the plug look like in cylinder #6?
That will tell you if you were lean or rich or what?
What did the plug look like in cylinder #6?
That will tell you if you were lean or rich or what?
Originally posted by thebigsadler
looks good kev.. can't wait to get my go mods goin..
looks good kev.. can't wait to get my go mods goin..
05-18-2003, 11:15 PM
#20
Originally posted by 190hpKiLLA
What should be the ideal compression?
What should be the ideal compression?
Originally posted by mtrai760
Dammit Kev, no fuel pressure gauge? :slap :nono Sorry to hear that. Whats your compression on cyl #6? I had a walborro pump go bad on me last year. Wouldn't hold pressure, started dropping down to 20psi, I had to bump it up with the AEM FPR or my car woulda died. I pulled the pump and was gonna send it back for warranty replacement when my car was broken into and it was stolen out of my trunk. Dumb kids stole a broke a$$ fuel pump, I hope they tried installing it in some ricer mobile :laugh Numbers HP wise look pretty good... I'm assuming thats your 5spd S/C dyno your comparing it with?
Dammit Kev, no fuel pressure gauge? :slap :nono Sorry to hear that. Whats your compression on cyl #6? I had a walborro pump go bad on me last year. Wouldn't hold pressure, started dropping down to 20psi, I had to bump it up with the AEM FPR or my car woulda died. I pulled the pump and was gonna send it back for warranty replacement when my car was broken into and it was stolen out of my trunk. Dumb kids stole a broke a$$ fuel pump, I hope they tried installing it in some ricer mobile :laugh Numbers HP wise look pretty good... I'm assuming thats your 5spd S/C dyno your comparing it with?
The inline fuel pressure gauge read 43 when I pulled it off the Cartech, but little did I know that pressure would not hold after 30 seconds of idling. The pressure would drop back down to 36 and stay there. Even pinching the fuel return line (back to gas tank) would not bump up the pressure.
Originally posted by hokiemax
you were running turbo and NOS without a fuel pressure gauge?? oh man.. why did THAT walbro in your car had to break, and damaging your cylinder #6. Well you took a calculated risk when you were running without the FP gauge, and the .001% chance that the fuel pump would go bad became real. it sucks. sorry to hear that.
you were running turbo and NOS without a fuel pressure gauge?? oh man.. why did THAT walbro in your car had to break, and damaging your cylinder #6. Well you took a calculated risk when you were running without the FP gauge, and the .001% chance that the fuel pump would go bad became real. it sucks. sorry to hear that.
No idea why the Walbro failed, but it did. Lesson of the day... get an in-cabin fuel pressure gauge.
05-19-2003, 03:18 AM
#22
Originally posted by Y2KevSE
I think you're slightly confused with the graphs. Torque decreases as the RPM goes up. So at 4700, it makes ~317 torque. Then it dips until it hits ~250 at 6500. Peak hp is at about 6000... but I think it would have been stronger if the car was running correctly. Torque dips... hp rises.
3inch downpipe into 2.5inch cat and cat-back.
I think you're slightly confused with the graphs.
Torque decreases as the RPM goes up. So at 4700, it makes ~317 torque. Then it dips until it hits ~250 at 6500. Peak hp is at about 6000... but I think it would have been stronger if the car was running correctly. Torque dips... hp rises.3inch downpipe into 2.5inch cat and cat-back.
AHH.. I confused the lines crossing.. bags
and the 2.5 inch exhaust has gotta be hurting you, but the 3 inch down pipe is great.. I am having problems fitting a 3 inch pipe in there.
thank you sir
05-19-2003, 08:19 AM
#28
Originally posted by hakk97se
Originally posted by bags533
AHH.. I confused the lines crossing.. bags:smash
and the 2.5 inch exhaust has gotta be hurting you, but the 3 inch down pipe is great.. I am having problems fitting a 3 inch pipe in there.
thank you sir :-D
AHH.. I confused the lines crossing.. bags:smash
and the 2.5 inch exhaust has gotta be hurting you, but the 3 inch down pipe is great.. I am having problems fitting a 3 inch pipe in there.
thank you sir :-D
If you rework the piping, I'm sure you can get it in there. Your downpipe is too close to "stuff" so it might not be safe just putting a 3" on there as is.
Originally posted by BigDogJonx
Damn, this makes me think I have to do a compression test on my cylinders, I ran a bit lean couple weeks ago and burned up the EGT probe. Damn these turbos.
Dixit
Damn, this makes me think I have to do a compression test on my cylinders, I ran a bit lean couple weeks ago and burned up the EGT probe. Damn these turbos.
Dixit
Originally posted by redmaxpa007
your car is still slow....:laugh
bout time you got that thing to a dyno.
ps.. do you need a stillen boost gauge?:naughty
your car is still slow....:laugh
bout time you got that thing to a dyno.
ps.. do you need a stillen boost gauge?:naughty
I had 3 boost gauges: 1) boost controller, 2) turbo timer, and 3) A'PEXi... Delio is getting the A'PEXi gauge so I'll have two.
Originally posted by Maxman2000
Nice :eek . Does that tubro kit put out around the same # of ponies as the stillen supercgarger kit????
Nice :eek . Does that tubro kit put out around the same # of ponies as the stillen supercgarger kit????
Originally posted by mingo
i remember how u were saying something about ur fuel pressure gauge not reading anything when we were looking at my friend's TT
i remember how u were saying something about ur fuel pressure gauge not reading anything when we were looking at my friend's TT
Originally posted by UMD_MaxSE
:nervous
:nervous
Make or break, I'm still gunning for 375 whp with turbo and nitrous on this motor.
05-19-2003, 08:48 AM
#29
Quoted Message:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by 190hpKiLLA
What should be the ideal compression?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
185.
Correction it should be 220...trust me I know.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by 190hpKiLLA
What should be the ideal compression?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
185.
Correction it should be 220...trust me I know.
05-19-2003, 08:49 AM
#30
Originally posted by Y2KevSE
Make or break, I'm still gunning for 375 whp with turbo and nitrous on this motor.
Make or break, I'm still gunning for 375 whp with turbo and nitrous on this motor.
I am shooting for 350 WHP when it is said and done... on any motor
and can I get a Yeah come'on
05-19-2003, 08:58 AM
#31
Nope, it wasn't lean... but it was REALLY lean when it went 2 weeks ago (> 18:1 a/f). [/B]
Also were you running a wideband to know about the A/F?I know running lean is bad, but isn't 18:1 REALLY high
-hype
05-19-2003, 09:40 AM
#32
Originally posted by LatinMax
Quoted Message:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by 190hpKiLLA
What should be the ideal compression?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
185.
Correction it should be 220...trust me I know.
Quoted Message:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by 190hpKiLLA
What should be the ideal compression?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
185.
Correction it should be 220...trust me I know.
Originally posted by bags533
Oh heL YEAH!!!
I am shooting for 350 WHP when it is said and done... on any motor
and can I get a Yeah come'on :eek
Oh heL YEAH!!!
I am shooting for 350 WHP when it is said and done... on any motor
and can I get a Yeah come'on :eek
Originally posted by xHypex
You have all these gauges and no FP gauge :goofy Also were you running a wideband to know about the A/F?
I know running lean is bad, but isn't 18:1 REALLY high :gotme
-hype
You have all these gauges and no FP gauge :goofy Also were you running a wideband to know about the A/F?
I know running lean is bad, but isn't 18:1 REALLY high :gotme
-hype
I wasn't running a wideband myself, but I found out > 18:1 about 2 weeks ago on the dyno.
