heres the scenerio:
i have owned 2 modded maximas in the past, loved them both, but they were auto, and i cant stand auto. NEED MANUAL. i have always wanted a wrx, and i found one at a good price, but its going to cost me $300 for 5years. thats a long time, especially since i have college next year, and i dont really want the responsibilities of the payments. but i love the car

my mom says what ever car i get she wants it payed off in a year, and if i get a car that can be paid off before college she will help me pay for it. my current 97' max could be paid off by then, but i dont want auto anymore. so i started thinking..... i could buy a 95-97 5speed max for like 6grand, but like 4grand down, and then pay off the $2000 left over within like 6 months. then my mom said i could just just save throughout college and in 3 years buy an 02 wrx for cash! and not worry about any payments (this sounds like the smart thing to do)

and i also have a ypipe and CAI that i could pull of my current max and then i would have a pretty good start to a modded 5speed. so do you guys have any advice??

do i deal with the $300/5years for a wrx through college, or do i sell my max, buy and 5speed max and not deal with payments, and then just save for a few years, and buy a wrx in cash?
i understand there maybe i bias here, but i am just looking for advice, primarily people who can kinda relate to what i am going through.

buy 5speed max = no payments, save money
buy wrx = $300/5years, durring college, which means, full time worker/full time student. also, how reliable can i expect a 5speed max to be if i buy one with 100k-120k miles? the most i have gone in my current max is 90k

thanks a lot guys, and sorry for the long post

 

The LAST thing you need in college is a car payment hanging over your head every month, particularly with the more difficult majors. Keep your current car and just do a 5spd conversion if you have the time/resources, or trade for a 5spd max. WRX is cool, but not worth it IMO.

 

drive what you got, in 5 years there will be something bigger and better out there.

 

WRX = glass tranny. That tranny is CRAP!!!! Buy an auto WRX if you want it to last. I suggest visiting clubwrx.com and nasioc.com and research all the tranny problems the 5 speed have. Even bonestock unabused WRXs blow their trannys.


As for buying a newer car, I bought myself a 2-year old, at the time, 94 Z28 when I was in college. To make payments on the Z28 I had to work about 25-30 hours a week. I'd have to say working 25-30 hours while taking a full load of classes wasn't that big of a deal. I actually became more focused and managed my time far better. Before the Z28 I was lazy and barely worked and wasted way too much money partying and boozing.


Dave

 

My buddy runs one of the WRX sites and he thinks the "tranny issues" are blown way out of proportion. There are a lot of noob manny tranny drivers that don't know WTH they're doing, and there are some other folks that go around banging gears on every shift. Consumer Reports reliability data shows less than a 2% failure rate on trannys (much better than average) for the 02 models, but we'll see how that holds up. I'm not sure what the national sales mix is, but most of the new-school Imprezas around here are WRX 5spd manual trim.

 

the turbo lag on the wrx is bad too

 

Yup, I wouldn't touch the WRX with a ten foot pole either.The complexity of a car with turbo, intercooler, 5spd tranny with limited slip center diff inside and a CV on each corner, leaves a lot to go wrong. If anything, stay with the automatic Max you have. The 5spd is the weak link of the 4th gen Max. Lots of folks with diff bearing failure. I've got a 5spd w/124k and the input shaft bearings are on the way out, and I'm still on the original clutch. The Max engine is bulletproof, if you can deal with the other minor gripes of the paint chips and thin sheet metal for a few more years, you'll be money ahead for the state of the art beast when you graduate. Add more mods to your auto and save the balance of the cash.

 

keeping my 97' auto max is NOT an option. i am sick of driving automatic.
i will either buy a wrx and deal with the payments, or buy a 5speed 4th gen and NOT deal with payments, and save my money to buy a wrx in cash a few years from now. those are my 2 options, so of those 2, which is a better choice?

daveB - right now i work 25hours a week, but i dont make much money at my current job, and i will be literally "working" for my car, so to me $300 car payments will be a pretty big deal, plus insurance.

i am a member of clubwrx.net, i-club.com, and nasioc.com
i have extensive knowledge of wrx's so i am aware of their pros and cons. i have done an insane amount of reading on their trannys, and stevetec is right, its blown way out of proportion. driving an all-wheel drive, turbo car is not like any other manual. you have to know how to drive it, and how to slip the clutch, and not to bang gears constantly. many people are on stage IV(upgraded turbo) putting 300awhp on stock tranny.

so anyways, so what to do? get 5speed max, no payments, and save
wrx, with high payments, but awesome car?

 

personally, I would trade for a 5spd Max and skip the WRX. If you work in school then it's money in the bank for the future instead of money into a car right now. You could use that money for when you graduate on a downpayment for a house, or a future badazz ride.

 

infiniti will make all their line ups RWD. in 2005 skyline will be here. perhaps G35 coupe will get cheaper by then. a lot of other cars gonna come out with better potential. by then, WRX, evo VIII, G35 coupe etc. will get cheaper.

if keepin your automagic maxima is NOT an option. i say you just do a 5-spd convertion. it's cheaper than getting another maxima or a WRX, and you don't need to worry about takin off your mods and paper work and all the other minor stuff.

 

My friend purchased a close-out brand new 2003 WRX 5 speed about 6 months ago. He's really not a car guy at all and he doesn't know the first thing about launching AWD and/or shifting hard. The night he got it he let me drive it, asked me my opinions, and what the car should do performance wise. I told him the car is capable low 14s and can beat a 99+ Mustang GT and his eyes lite up. I then tell him he'll need to launch at 5000rpms and quickly slip the clutch out to get his WRX into the 14s. He quickly responds with a "F-that!!! I don't want to break anything". I drove the car and wound it out to 6K rpms in 1st and 2nd and up to 5K rpms in 3rd, all shifts were granny shifts. The acceleration is strong and the lag isn't terrible. The car doesn't feel underpowered around town and the handling was pretty darn good for only running 16" all-season tires. BUT guess what? His WRX with 7000 miles is grinding 3rd and 4th now. He doesn't race.

Sure, the overall failure rate is pretty low, but most people aren't racing or modifying their WRXs. Modify the WRX and drive it hard and you're asking for problems. The WRXs 5 speed is heavily based off tranny developed in the 1970s. Under hard launches the tranny case will actually flex and the input shaft becomes misaligned and you know the rest. There are two WRX's that race at my track and they're running 13.8@97mph to 14.4@94mph. Both of them have had their trannys replaced within one year. The WRX is so dependant on launch it's not funny. When the WRXs at my track launch like me (2.2-2.3 60 foots), they're running high 14s. Both of these guys pull 1.8-1.9 60 foots with 5000rpm+ launches.



Dave

 

G35 is a skyline, right? Is a conversion an option as well???

 

i was thinking about a conversion, but it just seems like more work than its worth. plus i already paid $70 to put my car up on autotrader, when i thought i was selling it for a wrx.
the only mods i want out of my car right now anyways, are my CAI and ypipe, the rest really doesnt matter.
plus dumping another 2grand in my car for a conversion just seems like a waste, because i owe 5grand on my car, with a 2grand conversion that puts it at 7grand. when i could just buy a 95 5speed for 5k-5500k and make profit off sellilng my max. i only owe 4760 and i could sell it for about 7200.

 

lol, is this not true of almost ANY transmission?

And most people on these forums race and modify their WRXs and are much more likely to have problems. This can heavily bias your perception when the reality is that it might not be "that bad". This is how things can get blown way out of proportion.

If you do 6000 rpm drop-clutch launches and bang gears, you are going to have problems no matter what kind of tranny it is. Why would the automagic WRX be more reliable? Because there's not really any opportunity to abuse it. 5000 rpm clutch-drop? Nope...how bout a 3000 rpm stall converter. Bang gears?

If you drive that manual "right" it will be reliable. My buddy is pushing 300 awhp and autocrosses ALL the time and he hasn't had any problems in 40k "not granny driven" miles. I'm not saying the trannys are the best ever made because they're clearly not, but they're just not nearly as bad as people make them out to be. If they were really that bad, there would be a big-ole black mark on the Consumer Reports reliability tables for the car, but the 02's were all much better than average, the highest rating.

 

I see what you're saying, but are you understanding what I'm saying? The WRX requires an abusive launch to make it perform. Nearly everyone in these auto forums is a performance guy and will drive it as such. Many of us will add more power because it's just too easy. There's a reason Subaru publishes the WRX with a 6.2 second 0-60 and not the 5.4 the mags have gotten. Subaru doesn't want people abusing the trannies nor having false hopes that their WRX does 0-60 in 5.4 launching like a normal car. In the WRX, a launch at 2500rpms vs one at 5500rpms is the difference between a mid 14 second WRX and a low 15-second WRX. I have no doubts your friends WRX is holding up fine in the auto-x, but what does he launch at?

As for the auto WRX, the 4EAT tranny can take more abuse simply because you can load the drivetrain therefore reducing the shock. It works about the same for any auto. There's a reason auto F-Bodies can pull 1.7 60 foots reliably with the stock rear ends vs the 6 speeds which blow the rear ends with 1.8-1.9 60 foots. The 4EAT in the WRX has a weak link which is the center differential, but that's a far easier repair than a $3500 installed 5 speed. Get a 4000rpm stall converter on a modded WRX and you're looking at consistent 1.7 60 foots. I believe more of the quicker WRXs are running autos. Another advantage of the auto? No boost loss between shifts. Also the 4EAT has a 4.4 gear ratio which is incredibly deep which helps the acceleration of the auto. My wife has a Legacy GT with the 4EAT and I can attest to it's deep gearing. At 70mph in OD the car is spinning at 3000rpms.

As for Consumer Reports, I believe the only way they get their data is from the readers (whom are older) and surveys. Auto companies don't make their car model repair historys public record.

I don't think anything is being blown out of proportion concerning the 5 speed WRX. If you drive the WRX like you see in the commercials, chances are your 5 speed will fail. Once Subaru admits that the WRX tranny is weak and they start using the old STI 5 speed (currently used in the Forestor Turbo) then I'll buy a WRX.


Dave

 

But still, there's a difference between driving aggressively and driving abusively. The guys that do drop-clutch launches and bang gears and then cry when their tranny blows and what a POS it is are morons and the guys that don't are not.

You forgot the middle ground. A nice 4000-4500 rpm clutch-slip launch which will still get you mid-14's while also being much easier on the tranny. Now it's the clutch that's taking the abuse, but clutches are cheap compared to a tranny anyways, so who cares?

Your point is a good one though that nobody really thinks about. And that's a big part of why I got a Maxima instead of a WRX. I knew that I would never be doing crazy AWD launches, and that the WRX is not significantly faster from a roll than my 5spd Max is while the Max is about 100x more luxurious and comfortable on long trips.

They're all older? You have no proof of that. I read it and I'm 25.

The commercial I saw was not really abusive. Just some curves and heavy throttle 8/10ths driving. No clutch-drop launches there.

Weak in what respect? That it can't handle a 6000 rpm clutch-drop launch dependably? The WRX has much more traction than drivetrain sturdiness, but that's true of many AWD cars. The problem is that people are stupid and honestly expect the cars to be able to handle that sort of abuse. Their expectations are the highest, and when reality strikes (when their tranny blows) they come crashing back down to Planet Earth with a ton of hot air to blow around, lol.

If you are smart, understand the limits of the car, and know what to do and what not to do, then your WRX 5spd will be reliable. The car was never ever designed to be a drag racer. It's a rally car designed for corners and Subaru didn't design the thing to withstand high rev clutch-drop launches at the strip. But all the kidiots don't know any better.

What you are telling me is that the WRX would not be a good car for YOU because YOU would take it to the strip and want to do 6000 rpm clutch-drop launches and it can't handle it dependably. I agree. Don't buy a WRX because you would blow the tranny sky high going for 13's, or even 12's. Not everybody would drive it like that, though. ;-)

 

looks like my thread got jacked

 

Never in my wildest .... I'm in the same dilemma, well kinda.

I need a new winter beater to replace my 5spd 91 Escort. My Max is an automagic and I miss a manual tranny.

Plus I just moved and my driveway's got some slope, plus my main access is a dirt road.

So figuring all that, I decided I want an AWD, 5spd for my next winter car and a WRX Impreza Outback is currently top on my list. Not planning crazy launches or anything. Just something good for the winter with decent power.

Decisions, decisions.

 

the WRX commercials all say 5.4s 0-60...

 

just get a 2k2-2k3 max about same price as an 02 wrx and get a 6speed....youll love the 3.5vq and monthly payments will be about same as that of a wrx..i didnt put any money down on my max and im only playin 400 a month for 5 years but mine was bought new so a used one should be about 10k cheaper or more since i financed 30k for the car

 

WRX is a waste of money IMHO, if you really need 4WD, turbo, go buy a Talon TSi AWD Turbo... Sure it's unreliable, but it's cheaper... far cheaper and can be modded for far cheaper as well... Good thing too is that when you do blow something, you can throw the whole car out because it only cost $4K in total vs. ~$20K for a used WRX... Same ****, different scoop IMHO... There is no point in buying a WRX (non STi) for 1/4 mile times because in the end you have a tradeoff between a $3000+ transmission and launching like a champion, or a dog babying the transmission... Highways as well you will take it up the *** by the likes of RSX-S's, etc... 4WD is only good from a dig where traction is an issue, beyond that it becomes a liability with the added weight...

LEMAR

 

Not to mention DRIVETRAIN LOSS. Stock WRX's only dyno at ~168 to the wheels. Why not start with something cheaper then build it up for turbo??

 

if youre relying on your mom to buy you the car, you might want to consider asking her which would be best...

 

That sorta apples to oranges because that's on an AWD dyno (dynapack is common) vs a 2WD Dynjoet that a Maxima would dyno on. Not exactly the same thing.

 

Hold off on the expensive car until you're done with school...you don't NEED it.

You don't have to get everything NOW.

 

if my mom was buying me the car, why the hell wouldnt i get a wrx. and why would i be concerned with payments?
my mom isnt paying for anything. either I pay $300per month for 5years for a rex, or i just take all the money i have saved and buy a 95 se 5speed max, and not have any payments.
right now it seems the majority of you are saying that i am 18years old and shouldnt worry about a $300 car payment at such a young age, especially with college, and i should just relax and not work for a car. (also what my parents and g/f say)

coolmax: i do agree with you, i really dont need a wrx, a modded 5speed max should be fun enough, also i dont have to worry about car payments with the max. and for the last 2 years i paid on my current max, i am really lookking forward to not having to pay on a car monthly. but a wrx is so d*mn tempting

to whoever said to get a 2k2 6speed: i have driven both and i like the wrx much better. its handles better in EVERY aspect, has an awesome turbo kick, allwheel drive for winter, (i live in chicago) and can be modded for VERY VERY cheap. one thing i didnt like about the wrx is that its very rough, seems like more of a muscle car than a sports car. where as my friends 04 vspec and another friends RSX-s are not as quick but very clean smooth peppy cars, with a sportier feel. anyone thats been in a rex knows what i mean. i just hope the 95 5speed maximas are a smoother car, and more like a clean shifting yet quick car. any thoughts on this?

 

get 5 speed max. I would say to get WRX but college is hard enough, you dont want to be forced to work 24/7. In a few years, there will be something even better for u and if not, you can save up from now till when u finish college.

 

Bah. Ever try to park your car on a college campus. That new car will look like an old beater in about a month. College kids = no respect for other people's property. Dings and dents up the ying yang.

 

Sure it'd be nice to pimping a WRX a school, but like Jeff said, it's going to get dinged up quickly.
Seeing somebody's nice car amongst crappy cars in a college lot almost invites vandalism. I remember seeing a nice E36 M3 in a lot that was completely keyed up on both sides.

College should be hard enough without the car/money commitment...you can do that after you graduate and get a kick-*** job; no need to make it harder on yourself...just for a car.
WRX is tempting (a buddy has one, I've driven it plenty of times), but your nice car time will come.

Your Max will do the job just fine and will probably be better than most of the cars in the lot.

Good luck!

 

ok, cool.
thanks a lot coolmax. and also to the people that posted with helpful info.
and jeff i think you are correct. my current modded 97' SE is one of the nicer cars at school and the doors get the **** kicked outta them

thanks, guys, i will be looking for a 4thgen 5speed. so if anyone knows of one under $6500 with decent miles in the chicago land area, give me a shout. thanks again

 

He has caved in to the bias opinions of the "maxima.org" forum. How unexpected.

 

haha, i would hardly say that i caved in! I came here looking for advice and wisdom from people that may have experienced this. i have decided ON MY OWN that i dont want $300 per month payments for the next 5years at the age of 18. its just nice to have others say to that as well, so i know that i am not the only one that would get a cheaper car at this time in my life. and for me to get a loan for 12500 on a rex after tax and interest i would end up paying almost 17500 for the car.

plus i am having trouble finding a good price and miliage 5speed max, so i may not even end up with a maxima. thats just what i would like.
i have just decided that i dont want the payments of a wrx, when i have college.

but thanks anyways for your unnecessary comment

 

Great! So we are done!