Pmp-n8a

I've been reading up on Zaino and the fact is that its a stackable polymer which means

1) Your paint will not be able to breath/move the way its meant to
2) Have any of you guys tried to take this stuff off? Dishwasher liquid cant get this crap off ...its worse than tar...thats why you can wax it and leave it that way for weeks to months
3) Your paint will start to get weaker over time...the longer you use it...the weaker your paint gets
i.e. in a few years...a rock hits your car its not a chip...its more like the spider web effect

Avalon Racing

I try just about all the detailing products that come out. I do not use Zaino. I prefer IBIZ for the show car.

Although, Zaino is a decent product, it's chemical makeup actually aids contaminants to be embedded in the clearcoat.

Regards

greggmax

Wow. I have heard everyone raving about this product and I applied it to my Max before it got cold. I never heard anything bad about it. Why does everyone say it's so great if it actually hurts the finish? Regarding the removal of Zaino, the web site and others recommend using Dawn liquid to take off old coats of wax before beginning their regimen. Has anyone else used the stuff and what are your thoughts?

Avalon Racing

First of all Zaino is a good product BUT has a detrimental effect on the clearcoat (long term). It produces a "decent" finish. I beleive better finished can be had with concourse detailing products designed for show quality paint jobs.

The best way to remove any product is to use a detailing clay bar. This takes you back to a restored clearcoat. Then a proper polish and wax.

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

I was going to go into a flame war about Zaino and what I think.....but I decided to take my own advice and do a little research on "stackable" polymers, etc.

I myself like and use Zaino. I think it is a good product, and I've had good results. However, the long term effects of a polymer on a clearcoat have me concerned. But, from what I've read (that's right folks I did an internet search on stackable polymer waxes!), as long as I clay it off once a year (which I do) and re-apply, then there shouldn't be any real long term detriments to using Zaino. Could I be wrong here? Of course. But I need more convincing to go back to the Carnauba days.....

RussMaxManiac

Aid? I doubt that seriously. It actually prevents it.

RussMaxManiac

And your proof? Please show proof of this? We have used it, and it defintely is the best. And it does wear out.

RussMaxManiac

How can you say this if u have never used it? My gosh, how do u know it has a terrible affect on our finish? I have never had anything else PROTECT it longer and better than Zaino has. I think u are just dissing it to sell your IBIZ.

Avalon Racing

Bill,

First of all this is not a flame war by any stretch of the imagination. But rather a healthy discussion, with information for all to use.

Your comments are correct "but" remember this. The reason you clay is to remove embedded contaiminants from the clearcoat.

In my estimation, claying to remove embedded contaminants on a regular basis is a short term band-aid and not a long term solution.

Best results are to clean the clearcoat, and then properly protect the clearcoat by polish and wax. This helps prevent contaminants to get into the clear in the first place. The need to clay is reduced.

Now in all fairness, any product wax or otherwise does cut down the potential for crude getting into the paint.

I also have to look at the protection of the clearcoat as well. Repeated stripping of the clearcoat contaminants will over time, thin the clearcoat. Thus the requirement to not clay on a regular basis. This, then goes back to the point of why professional detailers of show cars and high end autos do not use nor like silicone or polymer products.

In fact, most prefer a pure caranuba ( fossilized ). Note also that there are numerous types of caranuba.

Here is some detail on wax:

Wax is an organic material that is solid at room temperature, melts at a fairly low point and is not a polymer. Wax comes in many types, including vegetable
(carnauba), mineral petroleum (paraffin and microcrystalline), animal (bees) and fossil (montan). And yes also synthetic. It has many properties, including hardness, water repellency, resistance to breakdown and melting points (about 160 to 180 degree Fahrenheit).

Wax is the last step in car care and serves as a paint protectant and also makes it shine. It is a barrier against things in the environment including acid rain and other
contaminanats that affest the car's paint finish. When wax is applied to the car's surface, the contaminants attack the wax and not the paint. Wax protects by improving slip resistance, preventing dirt and dust from abrading the surface, preventing contaminants from corroding the paints
surface. Wax also improves the appearance of the car by making it shine. It improves the reflection of light off the car, making the finish look smoother and brighter.

Manufacturers continue to debate what is more important: looks or length of protection. Some manufacturers feel looks are more important than protection, while others feel the importance lies in how long the finish will last.

Waxes contain more than just wax. Other substances are often added to wax to help it work better, making it easier to spread and last longer. Polymers and silicones may be added to give wax more durability. Waxes typically last one to two months or less depending on the formula and how much of the product is applied.

A polished, clean surface will make applying the wax easier, enhance the appearance and help the wax cover imperfections in the surface.

The same wax formulation can be used for old and new cars, as long as the car is prepared properly. Howerever, the age of the car can affect the outcome of the wax job, or the length of time the shine lasts. It has been proven that natural products has the best overall performance on new and older cars.

Regards

RussMaxManiac

Bill please post some links to your findings so we can all read. I would also like to get this so I can email sal at zaino and ask him this.

Avalon Racing

We have used it and test the product. It is not one of the better ones we have tried. As for sales we ONLY stated what we use with no reference to selling it.

Regards

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

for the info....good stuff....

I was insinuating that I would be the one to start the flames, not yourself or anyone else......I have defended Zaino quite a bit, but the new info has shown me there are 2 sides to the story.....

I understand the clearcoat thinning concerns through claying, but I'm sticking with Zaino for the time being until I find something better....

Pmp-n8a

Just give it a little thought guys....lets take Meguires as an example because everyone knows Megs...do you think that one of the largest producers of car care products WOULDNT be able to make a bottle of this stuff?

I've read everything I could find on this product and stackable polymers because this stuff sounded too good to be true. I dont have to prove anything to any of you. I just posted this up here because I thought it would be nice to give fair warning to people who are using this product and now you want me to "show you proof"? Like I did something wrong or posted this to bash Zaino?? wtf you can shove it and this'll be the last time i post up something like this again

[Edited by Pmp-n8a on 02-21-2001 at 03:32 PM]

greggmax

DO a search on the Edmunds web site for Zaino. That's where I first heard about it. There are hundreds of postings by satisfied customers. These people are so convinced that others have called them zealots. I do not know **** about car care, as I never waxed my other cars and I've been driving for 24 years. The thing I liked about Zaino was that once the initial treatment is done, it requires very little upkeep (or so they say). I have not had a chance to follow up applications due to the cold weather. I'm sure the wax that people use for show cars is probably better, but I don't have the time for that (actually I'm too lazy).

It is good to hear another view to the use of Zaino though. At the same time, I doubt that the reason Meguires doesn't make the stuff is because they believe it's bad for your car. It's not good business sense. If they thought they could make money, they'd be all over it. They don't care if it is not the best product.

Avalon Racing

Reality is that most general car owners ( wash and wax )will like the product. As I stated earlier, the product is not bad. Most of these users probably have never clayed a car, measured clearcoat thickness or shown a car in competition. Then you have to look at cost vs retail store products and the high end show stuff. Zaino is more than the retail stuff and close if not more than the concourse show products.

But for people who detail the car and want the next level of perfection, you then have to go to show quality products.

I have tried just about everything that comes out to make sure my show care is the best. I have my list of products we use and subsequently sell. There are other brands that I would recommend before Zaino. An example would be Griots.

The three largest products used on show cars are IBIZ, Griots and Meguairs.

Regards

LeoB

I like the smell of Zaino..Cant say it gets me high..but mighty close to it. I've always figured that sand and small particles become imbedded in wax, especially when your kicking down the road at 80 or 90 mph and some dude in front of you is tossing up salt and sand that was sprayed on slippery and icy roads the day before. I've had a guy pull up beside me in a parking lot, with the identical car to mine, same colour, etc. He circled my car in utter amazement. the difference between my Zaino job and his wax job was like day and nite. He was planning on switching to Zaino. I'm not sure that I'm too concerned about what the car is going to look like in 8 or 10 years from now. Maxima's arent going to be collectors items by any means, and further, god knows what forms of other abuses the car will suffer between now and then from rude and unthinking other drivers, parkers, and punk kids with keys. I figure if in 8 to 10 years I need the car to be pristine, I'd paint it fresh anyways. A dull finish by then would only help convince me to go that route. Thats my practical reasoning ..I figure the above arguments are sorta academic in a sense, given that cars are going to deteriorate one way or the other come what may. For the right here and the right now...........
Zaino rules..lets hear from the Zaino bro's on this one!

PiotrC70

First of all " =Þ "
You keep refering to IBIZ, and the others (not talking about Mequires) being used for show cars this, show cars that. How well does YOUR product protect the finish of the car and what is it's make-up. You keep refering to show cars but are forgetting that are cars are constantly exposed to the elements. If I had a classic porsche that I drive only on sunny days, I would use show car wax unless you can prove otherwise that it is better or comprable to zaino. I believe it was Russ who printed a review of carnauba waxes and the make-up of it.. heat, it melts, cold, it cracks.. I just used zaino and am going to scan the pictures and post them up. I am completely satisfied with this product.
Avalon, please elaborate on the product IBIZ itself. I'm sorry but reading your pages worth of technicality makes me bored.
With all due respect...

greggmax

I cannot see the pics. Is it me or are they not showing?

Avalon Racing

Even though the majority of the cars are daily drivers, it is still best to use proper techniques and top end products. My show car has 82,000 miles on it and over 400 road course miles. Also remember it is not MY product. After tests on all types of products, it is the poroduct of choice. Thus we carry the line. When it comes to products, I will only sell products we use.

Here is the detail on the wax I use:

IBIZ World Class Car Wax is a liquid wax made from montan wax, a fossilized carnauba wax from carnauba plants buried in Germany and Austria during the ice ages. With natural emulsifiers and montan wax, it is a much stronger and harder than regular carnauba waxes. IBIZ is non-abrasive and applies smoothly, without the abrasive feel of other waxes.

IBIZ is formulated to be wiped off while still wet, which saves time, effort and without dust residue. The result is a strong, protective finish that leaves a luxurious deep reflective shine. After the wax is wiped off, the remaining solids block the harmful UV rays, further preventing excess drying and oxidation. IBIZ will protect against all elements including contaminants such as acid rain, bug tar, road
grime, catalytic converter emissions, salt and bird droppings. There is no need to strip the old wax before applying a new coat, it does not build up. Lab tests also shows that IBIZ will last at least 150 wash cycles.

IBIZ World Class Detailing Products also includes the IBIZ Car Wash and IBIZ Car Sheen lines. IBIZ has demonstrated a minimum average life expectancy of 6 moths after one good application. For application frequency one must determine the most suitable car regiment for your needs, automobile age, color, operating environment and frequency of use are deciding factors. Maximum paint protection of use are the deciding factors. Maximum paint protection is achieved by a maintenance cost of wax every one to three months. Remember, you cannot see wax degradation. Paint that looks like it needs wax is showing paint damage.

IBIZ World Class Detailing Products are used by and endorsed by Avalon Division and praised by many Ferrari owners, The National Ferrari Club, The Warlock Performance Group, The National Automobile and Truck Museum and the Auburn- Duesenberg Car Museum. Ther wax is also the recommended and used by the Ferrari Concourse cars and Mueseum. Last tyear the wzax was endorsed by the Corvette Club of America on their show cars.

RussMaxManiac

How can u say it does not build up? Please tell me? All waxes build up after time. Unless you put something on your car to strip it. All waxes wear out after a while and need a new coat, including zaino. If it wears out that means its worn off I would supose right? That means Zaino would no longer be on there after 6-8 months. So I think your info is flawed personally. I am gonna email sal and Zaino and see what he says.

Avalon Racing

Russ,

The data I just posted is per the manufacturer in Europe. We do two light coats at all times on the car. The wax does not get a thick buildup like other waxes. This is critical for depth. As for our information, it scomes from experience and some of the top detailers in the world.

Try different products and make your own personal decisions.
The initial person posting asked a question and a few of us answered it.

At this point you are making a huge mountain out of a mole hill. Clearly every consumer has choices. We have ours and you have yours. Unless you have tried other products, such as the ones I mentioned then you can not comment as well except on your experiences with that product.

I go to great lengths to try just about all the products we can get our hands on. As a member fo the Professional Detailers Association, we have have contact with other people who test and try products.

My show car speaks for itself.

The bottom line here is simple. Car owners have a choice. They should try other products and compare. Some will like certain ones and some will not.

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

discussion, but has run its course.....seems to get more "flamey" with each post. So, lock down time.

I appreciate Avalon Racing's point of view and it is well taken. I'll stick with Zaino, but there are obviously viable reasons not to use it.