2000 VI is now on and running on my 96
#44
Originally Posted by Big D
What did I say? I said unless he wants LSD that came with the 2k1.
#49
Wow!! first of all I would like to say that this is really cool, the .org has been a little boring for a few months now. Things like this are starting to get my interest again.
However, I would REALLY be interested in seeing a video of a run through 1st and 2nd gear to 8k but with the camera focused on the gauges...it would be really cool to see how fast the MPH move after 7k.
Awesome job though man, I mean all the people involved in this are extremely dedicated!!!
However, I would REALLY be interested in seeing a video of a run through 1st and 2nd gear to 8k but with the camera focused on the gauges...it would be really cool to see how fast the MPH move after 7k.
Awesome job though man, I mean all the people involved in this are extremely dedicated!!!
#51
Woah.. kicka$$! congrats man!
I'd love to see some dyno numbers now...
I highly doubt you want to pull it all off, but I can refer to you a good fab shop if you'd like to make up the custom pcs in quantity..
I'd love to see some dyno numbers now...
I highly doubt you want to pull it all off, but I can refer to you a good fab shop if you'd like to make up the custom pcs in quantity..
#52
you guys rock!!
Can't WAIT to see some dynos and track times with this BEAST! Finally something interesting to read about here instead of all of this lame ricer crap lately.
Get a dyno done and I'll plot USIM vs MEVI vs 2kVI
Can't WAIT to see some dynos and track times with this BEAST! Finally something interesting to read about here instead of all of this lame ricer crap lately.
Get a dyno done and I'll plot USIM vs MEVI vs 2kVI
#54
Originally Posted by SteVTEC
you guys rock!!
Can't WAIT to see some dynos and track times with this BEAST! Finally something interesting to read about here instead of all of this lame ricer crap lately.
Get a dyno done and I'll plot USIM vs MEVI vs 2kVI
Can't WAIT to see some dynos and track times with this BEAST! Finally something interesting to read about here instead of all of this lame ricer crap lately.
Get a dyno done and I'll plot USIM vs MEVI vs 2kVI
Oh as far as a dyno comparison goes this manifold isnt your normal 2K VI. For instance Chris got rid of all the swirl valve crap in the lower manifold and bored out the upper plenum to 73 mm, also he used a 70mm Pathfinder TB. So this definitly has more pep than a stock 2K VI. Would be interesting to compare a 2K dyno to his.
#56
Originally Posted by 98SEBlackMax
Haha my thoughts exactly, It was getting boring around here in the last few months. I was honored to get to do a project like this and would do it again if the oppurtunity came about.
Oh as far as a dyno comparison goes this manifold isnt your normal 2K VI. For instance Chris got rid of all the swirl valve crap in the lower manifold and bored out the upper plenum to 73 mm, also he used a 70mm Pathfinder TB. So this definitly has more pep than a stock 2K VI. Would be interesting to compare a 2K dyno to his.
Oh as far as a dyno comparison goes this manifold isnt your normal 2K VI. For instance Chris got rid of all the swirl valve crap in the lower manifold and bored out the upper plenum to 73 mm, also he used a 70mm Pathfinder TB. So this definitly has more pep than a stock 2K VI. Would be interesting to compare a 2K dyno to his.
I'll be sure to note any mods to the VI in any charts I put up.
#57
I am glad to see that someone finally went through with this. Congrats!!
Now you really should concern yourself with the stock valvetrain. The VQ35 retainers are the best option because they're lighter than titanium and only about $3 each from the dealer.
I have been waiting for a good opportunity to realease this information and this appears to be it. The VK45 titanium valves are near identical to the VQ30 valves. The only thing that is different is the total length which can be adjusted with new shims.
VQ30DE Steel valve;
Face In: 36.0 - 36.3mm
Face Ex: 31.2 - 31.5mm
Stem In: 5.965 - 5.980mm
Stem Ex: 5.945 - 5.960mm
Length In: 97.32 - 97.82mm
Length Ex: 94.85 - 95.35mm
Valve seat angle 45º15' - 45º45'
VK45 Titanium valve;
Face In: 36.0 - 36.3mm
Face Ex: 31.2 - 31.5mm
Stem In: 5.972 - 5.980mm
Stem Ex: 5.962 - 5.970mm
Length In: 96.57mm
Length Ex: 94.50mm
Valve seat angle 45º15' - 45º45'
The faces and the seat angles are identical. The stems are slightly different only because the expansion rates are slightly different between the metals. They're both classified as 6mm stems.
The only question that remains is the location of the keeper. If it's high enough on the Ti valve then there is no problem. If it's too low then custom retainers will be needed to make them work.
Now you really should concern yourself with the stock valvetrain. The VQ35 retainers are the best option because they're lighter than titanium and only about $3 each from the dealer.
I have been waiting for a good opportunity to realease this information and this appears to be it. The VK45 titanium valves are near identical to the VQ30 valves. The only thing that is different is the total length which can be adjusted with new shims.
VQ30DE Steel valve;
Face In: 36.0 - 36.3mm
Face Ex: 31.2 - 31.5mm
Stem In: 5.965 - 5.980mm
Stem Ex: 5.945 - 5.960mm
Length In: 97.32 - 97.82mm
Length Ex: 94.85 - 95.35mm
Valve seat angle 45º15' - 45º45'
VK45 Titanium valve;
Face In: 36.0 - 36.3mm
Face Ex: 31.2 - 31.5mm
Stem In: 5.972 - 5.980mm
Stem Ex: 5.962 - 5.970mm
Length In: 96.57mm
Length Ex: 94.50mm
Valve seat angle 45º15' - 45º45'
The faces and the seat angles are identical. The stems are slightly different only because the expansion rates are slightly different between the metals. They're both classified as 6mm stems.
The only question that remains is the location of the keeper. If it's high enough on the Ti valve then there is no problem. If it's too low then custom retainers will be needed to make them work.
#58
Originally Posted by Kolyan
2k-2k1 have 220HP due to that VI so is that what you supposed to get?
and 2k1 AE have 225HP right? where is the extra 5 come from?
and 2k1 AE have 225HP right? where is the extra 5 come from?
#61
Originally Posted by Big D
Again, no. The HP gains are from more than just the manifold. Lighter internals are used inside the engines to get gains as well. A better exhaust system and other things. The AE has 227hp.
And please explain how lighter internals adds HP...
#62
Originally Posted by Big D
Again, no. The HP gains are from more than just the manifold. Lighter internals are used inside the engines to get gains as well. A better exhaust system and other things. The AE has 227hp.
That engine is screaming, GOOD WORK!!!!I hope your hard works pays off, with awsome number on the dyno. Im sure a bunch of MEVI's are gonna pop up in the 4th gen 4 sale forum..
#64
I read that they used lighter moving parts to get more power on top of the manifold and the exhaust. Explain how lighter parts wouldn't make more power. If all the internal moving parts in the engine weigh 1/2 of what the 4th gen parts weighed don't you think that would free up some power?
#68
Originally Posted by IwANnAMaX96
Most of the gains came from the manifold. This is a fact.
And please explain how lighter internals adds HP...
And please explain how lighter internals adds HP...
#69
Originally Posted by Big D
I read that they used lighter moving parts to get more power on top of the manifold and the exhaust. Explain how lighter parts wouldn't make more power. If all the internal moving parts in the engine weigh 1/2 of what the 4th gen parts weighed don't you think that would free up some power?
#70
Originally Posted by 98SEBlackMax
Ok I PMed Endus about the video and his server is up to the task to provide it.
This video was taken at the meet Sunday, keep in mind we got this whole thing running with the Summit switch a few hours before this was taken. Endus took numerous vids and made this short clip. Enjoy
Right click and Save
This video was taken at the meet Sunday, keep in mind we got this whole thing running with the Summit switch a few hours before this was taken. Endus took numerous vids and made this short clip. Enjoy
Right click and Save
To those wanting to do this mod:
Be reading for a lot of modification work. After seeing this thing in action, you would think its a direct bolt on to the intake. It's probably been explained before but you need the intake collector, the fuel rails, and the intake with the injectors from the DE-K block. I thought the guys (Chris and Joe) said they worked about 20 hours straight on this.
It's good to hear that the EGR was a direct fit to the EGR port on the 2K intake collector but the rear collector bolts couldn't be used. The is on there good though and Chris showed us by rocking the whole car by the collector.
#71
Originally Posted by spirilis
i'm pretty sure the lighter valve components are to decrease the probability of valve float at those high RPMs (especially 8K)
#72
Lighter valvetrain components do reduce float. It's essentually the same thing as adding stronger valve springs. A valve spring can close a lighter valve quicker than it can close a heavier one.
I never saw any publication that mentioned the VQ35DE-K having lighter internal componants than the regular VQ30DE. The published differences were the VI composite intake manifold, the cams and the two stage muffler. The cams can be overlooked because the only cam that is different is the exhaust cam and the VQ30DE has the more aggressive of the two (duration wise). The two stage muffler doesn't add any hp on the top end so rule that one out too.
I never saw any publication that mentioned the VQ35DE-K having lighter internal componants than the regular VQ30DE. The published differences were the VI composite intake manifold, the cams and the two stage muffler. The cams can be overlooked because the only cam that is different is the exhaust cam and the VQ30DE has the more aggressive of the two (duration wise). The two stage muffler doesn't add any hp on the top end so rule that one out too.
#73
Originally Posted by MaximumMax
Looks like all those who said it couldn't be done ate their words!!
We still don't know exactly what kind of power the DE-K manifold will make over the MEVI. I know that Steve made plot of what the MEVI on a stock DE "should" look like, but no one has ever done a dyno like this so it's a speculative. Russ dynoed his 01 to ~181fwhp and Steve's "stock" MEVI showed ~168fwhp. Personally, I disagree with Steve's plot because my MEVI alone gained me about 8 peak HP and I suffered no losses in power until about 3300rpms. Without a true stock MEVI dyno we-ll never know, but it's my opinion that a stock MEVI will make around 174fwhp, but that's another debate. I'll also note the MEVI actually gained me power below 3000rpms.
At various parts of the RPM band the DE-K surpasses the MEVI by 10-20hp and that is significant however comparing real DE-K numbers to estimated MEVI stock numbers isn't terribly accurate (see argument above). The powercurve shape of the MEVI compared to the DE-K are pretty much mirror images each other with both peaking at ~6100-6200rpms and then the power curve slowly drops off. I don't understand why people say the DE-K has a "longer" powerband because the dynos suggest both the DE-K and MEVI hold on to power bascially the same way and have the same peak rpms. The DE-K manifold, just like the MEVI, will definitely benefit from the JWT ECU. Krismax needs to see about 215fwhp/210fwtq to make this a legitimate bolt-on. 200-205fwhp/198-203fwtq is what MEVI bolt-on 4th gens are seeing.
My argument has been why do so much fab work when you can get a complete bolt-on setup (MEVI) that's easy to install? The power is definitely less, but you get peace of mind with the install. Swapping in the DE-K requires the DE-K fuel rails and injectors, rewiring the injectors, modification of the manifold, and a basic understanding of electronics, soldering, and automotive systems (vacuum, solenoids, emissions). Is all the extra work and potential hidden problems (ex. bad wiring = hellacious trouble shooting) worth the extra power? To most people the answer is no and to a select capable few the answer is yes.
Congrats to Krismax. There's no doubt his DE-K 4th will haul some serious butt assuming his valvetrain can handle the load.
Dave
#74
I'm attempting a DE-k with MEVI first and then swap over to the '00 manifold. I'll try to get dyno's from each and see which is better and by how much.
It may be awhile though.
Thank you krismax and all who helped for pioneering this and showing it could be done.
It may be awhile though.
Thank you krismax and all who helped for pioneering this and showing it could be done.
#76
No, they're heavier. They used vanadium steel for the rods to reduce the weight, however not to VQ30 levels.
Originally Posted by Tatanko
Are the VQ35 internals also lighter? (granted they aren't really the same, but are they still a more lightweight design)
#77
Any 350z injector.
Originally Posted by Stephen Max
Very, very awesome. Good work, Krismax. Can't wait to see the dyno.
One question on behalf of the boosted folks, what options are there for larger injectors with this setup?
One question on behalf of the boosted folks, what options are there for larger injectors with this setup?
#78
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
Any 350z injector.
Nevermind, you're probably talking about aftermarket injectors for the 350Z, eh?
#79
Originally Posted by Stephen Max
But aren't those only 290 cc/min? Sorry, I haven't been paying attention to the 5th gen injector discussions over in boosted. <== me
Nevermind, you're probably talking about aftermarket injectors for the 350Z, eh?
Nevermind, you're probably talking about aftermarket injectors for the 350Z, eh?
#80
Originally Posted by Dave B
The powercurve shape of the MEVI compared to the DE-K are pretty much mirror images each other with both peaking at ~6100-6200rpms and then the power curve slowly drops off. I don't understand why people say the DE-K has a "longer" powerband because the dynos suggest both the DE-K and MEVI hold on to power bascially the same way and have the same peak rpms.
Show me a ypipe/intake/catback/UDP DE+MEVI dyno that *PULLS* to redline like these THREE DEKs:
One more DEK+StillenIntake+Ypipe *PULLING* past 200whp@6K:
My argument has been why do so much fab work when you can get a complete bolt-on setup (MEVI) that's easy to install? The power is definitely less, but you get peace of mind with the install. Swapping in the DE-K requires the DE-K fuel rails and injectors, rewiring the injectors, modification of the manifold, and a basic understanding of electronics, soldering, and automotive systems (vacuum, solenoids, emissions). Is all the extra work and potential hidden problems (ex. bad wiring = hellacious trouble shooting) worth the extra power? To most people the answer is no and to a select capable few the answer is yes.