2000 VI is now on and running on my 96
05-21-2004, 04:03 PM
#241
That's easier though, just use the "intake adapter" aka restrictor as a template for the bolts. No need to "clock it" so the Pathy bolts and the DEK bolts don't interfere.
The only difficult part is the 90-degree part that holds the IACV.
The only difficult part is the 90-degree part that holds the IACV.
05-21-2004, 04:09 PM
#242
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
That's easier though, just use the "intake adapter" aka restrictor as a template for the bolts. No need to "clock it" so the Pathy bolts and the DEK bolts don't interfere.
The only difficult part is the 90-degree part that holds the IACV.
The only difficult part is the 90-degree part that holds the IACV.
05-21-2004, 04:41 PM
#243
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Its not any more difficult using different TB but why make it more difficult ,Use the TB that came stock or Use pathfinder one. You have to make the block so might as well make it a dual purpose block and just put the TB on thats meant for your car or works.
No matter what you do if you dont use the 2000-2001 TB it will always have to be clocked ,If my TB wasnt clocked it would not clear the vias and as it was i had ti file about a 1/8 inch of the rod of the TB that holds the ear on. If you use stock 4th gen TB it probably will clear fine but all must be clocked.
Nothing i did got CNC'd did not need that percision. The flat spot that the IACV bolts to . Is the same thing it bolted on to on my 96 manifold stock I cut the piece out of the manifold ,welded a tube on the back and slid it into the hole that was bored in the side of my block then it was welded from the inside.
Also i had to rig something up for the PCV valve to fit. Its in one of joe's pics .A 90 degree plastic tube with about 2 inches of hose then the PCV valve pluged into that end . and then the hose to the manifold.
But to help everyone out all answers and ?'s are in the 5th gen intake manifold swap thread or this one. If your really serious about doing this you need to study all the pics and read all 18 plus pages and then that will show you all of what needs to be done . And then if you cant find a answer after pouring over all the info ill help the best i can.
No matter what you do if you dont use the 2000-2001 TB it will always have to be clocked ,If my TB wasnt clocked it would not clear the vias and as it was i had ti file about a 1/8 inch of the rod of the TB that holds the ear on. If you use stock 4th gen TB it probably will clear fine but all must be clocked.
Nothing i did got CNC'd did not need that percision. The flat spot that the IACV bolts to . Is the same thing it bolted on to on my 96 manifold stock I cut the piece out of the manifold ,welded a tube on the back and slid it into the hole that was bored in the side of my block then it was welded from the inside.
Also i had to rig something up for the PCV valve to fit. Its in one of joe's pics .A 90 degree plastic tube with about 2 inches of hose then the PCV valve pluged into that end . and then the hose to the manifold.
But to help everyone out all answers and ?'s are in the 5th gen intake manifold swap thread or this one. If your really serious about doing this you need to study all the pics and read all 18 plus pages and then that will show you all of what needs to be done . And then if you cant find a answer after pouring over all the info ill help the best i can.
05-21-2004, 05:02 PM
#244
Just use the DEK throttle-body and manifold bolts with the IACV off at a 90 like krismax has.
That way it doesn't need to be clocked or have 8-holes on the TB side. Basically, just make a spacer thick enough to move the TB away from the manifold, so the IACV has room.
Bore doesn't matter.
That way it doesn't need to be clocked or have 8-holes on the TB side. Basically, just make a spacer thick enough to move the TB away from the manifold, so the IACV has room.
Bore doesn't matter.
Originally Posted by 98SEBlackMax
What about the differnt bores of the IACV adaptor? 70mm for the Pathy TB, 6x mm for the DEK TB, or 60 mm for the DE TB. I think with a 70 mm bore there isnt room on that IACV adaptor for a DEK TB bolt pattern.
05-21-2004, 05:13 PM
#245
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Originally Posted by IceY2K1
Just use the DEK throttle-body and manifold bolts with the IACV off at a 90 like krismax has.
That way it doesn't need to be clocked or have 8-holes on the TB side. Basically, just make a spacer thick enough to move the TB away from the manifold, so the IACV has room.
Bore doesn't matter.
That way it doesn't need to be clocked or have 8-holes on the TB side. Basically, just make a spacer thick enough to move the TB away from the manifold, so the IACV has room.
Bore doesn't matter.
Thinnest block could be would be about 50mm thick. If it is much thicker or thinner it wont clear the firewall
05-21-2004, 05:20 PM
#246
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
Just use the DEK throttle-body and manifold bolts with the IACV off at a 90 like krismax has.
That way it doesn't need to be clocked or have 8-holes on the TB side. Basically, just make a spacer thick enough to move the TB away from the manifold, so the IACV has room.
Bore doesn't matter.
That way it doesn't need to be clocked or have 8-holes on the TB side. Basically, just make a spacer thick enough to move the TB away from the manifold, so the IACV has room.
Bore doesn't matter.
However that might not be possible and this is what I am thinking of...
If you try to drill holes to bolt a DEK TB onto the IACV adaptor it wont work (I think). Theres already 8 holes on the plate and with the 70 mm bore of the adaptor I dont think you can fit 4 more holes onto that plate that would fit a DEK TB.
Anyways there isnt alot of room with this setup to move the IACV part. Its hard to tell on the pics but it just clears the brake booster with where it is. If you move the IACV part forward its gonna bump into the brake booster, move it back and its gonna bump into the firewall.
05-21-2004, 05:32 PM
#247
Good point...I didn't consider the firewall conflict.
Not sure how the VIAS would be in the way though.
Not sure how the VIAS would be in the way though.
Originally Posted by krismax
It may still need 8 holes because with the spacer pushing the TB out the TB may not clear the vias .
Thinnest block could be would be about 50mm thick. If it is much thicker or thinner it wont clear the firewall
Thinnest block could be would be about 50mm thick. If it is much thicker or thinner it wont clear the firewall
05-21-2004, 05:39 PM
#248
Originally Posted by 98SEBlackMax
Oh ok I understand you now. Your talking about making another type of adaptor that works with the DEK TB with 4th gen IACV stuff. However that brings back my original point, now the machinist would have to make different IACV adaptors depending on what TB you decide to use. I was thinking about making a universal IACV adaptor that fits all 3 TBs (60mm DE, 63mm DEK, and 70mm Pathy TB).
However that might not be possible and this is what I am thinking of...
If you try to drill holes to bolt a DEK TB onto the IACV adaptor it wont work (I think). Theres already 8 holes on the plate and with the 70 mm bore of the adaptor I dont think you can fit 4 more holes onto that plate that would fit a DEK TB.
If you try to drill holes to bolt a DEK TB onto the IACV adaptor it wont work (I think). Theres already 8 holes on the plate and with the 70 mm bore of the adaptor I dont think you can fit 4 more holes onto that plate that would fit a DEK TB.
Anyways there isnt alot of room with this setup to move the IACV part. Its hard to tell on the pics but it just clears the brake booster with where it is. If you move the IACV part forward its gonna bump into the brake booster, move it back and its gonna bump into the firewall.
05-21-2004, 06:02 PM
#249
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
Now that's a GREAT idea. I was only considering getting a 4th gen or DEK one made, but since I already have a DEK manifold/TB, that's would be first just to find out what's involved.
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
You lost me. There would ONLY be 4-holes for the DEK straight through the IACV spacer. Basically, just like the "restrictor", but thicker and without the funny slide looking part.
However if we were to build a unviersal block it gets fuzzy. In order for the pathy TB to work good the bore has to be 70 mm. So the DE and DEK TB bolt holes would be closer to the center of the universal IACV adaptor block (in order to accomodate there smaller bores). So thats gonna be a problem, however I have a solution in my head but its hard for me to explain. I can see the solution but I cant put it to words, but its there.
Edit: After looking over the pics you might be able to drill some more holes on the IACV block adaptor so that it can take a 70mm Pathy TB or a 63mm DEK TB. If you clock the bolt holes for a DEK TB it can probally fit on there ok, it might not be centered but it should fit. My other idea was to make adaptor plates for the DE and DEK TBs. The owner could just use different plates depending on what TB they want to use.
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
It would be in the EXACT same place as krismaxs'. If the IACV 90 has to be cocked a bit, shouldn't be a problem, right?
...yeah I need some sleep
05-21-2004, 11:14 PM
#253
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
Haha...you missed the BEST stuff if you skipped over 3-8.
Yeah, I skimmed over it but im too sleepy to register what I read...or tried to read that is 
Ill look over it tomorrow when all the words dont look the same 
05-22-2004, 12:15 AM
#254
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So if I used the 4th gen (DE) TB, would I be restricting air flow with the diameter?
How bad would it be on a 4th gen to use the DE-K intake with the stock 4th gen injectors. Obviously not as much fuel, but would not changing the injectors mess with the 4th gen ecu?
How bad would it be on a 4th gen to use the DE-K intake with the stock 4th gen injectors. Obviously not as much fuel, but would not changing the injectors mess with the 4th gen ecu?
05-22-2004, 06:11 AM
#255
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Originally Posted by IceY2K1
Haha...you missed the BEST stuff if you skipped over 3-8.
The nipple under my adapter block is for a vavumm tube in that area that was on 96 manifold.
05-22-2004, 06:42 AM
#256
You can't use the 4th gen injectors, since that requires the 4th gen lower intake manifold, which without some hefty work, won't bolt to the upper intake manifold.
Either injector will work with the 4th gen ECU, however you'll probably be rich due to the extra 50cc, so you'll need to turn down fuel pressure some, ie need an adjustable FPR. Might not be 100% necessary though.
Either injector will work with the 4th gen ECU, however you'll probably be rich due to the extra 50cc, so you'll need to turn down fuel pressure some, ie need an adjustable FPR. Might not be 100% necessary though.
How bad would it be on a 4th gen to use the DE-K intake with the stock 4th gen injectors. Obviously not as much fuel, but would not changing the injectors mess with the 4th gen ecu?
05-22-2004, 07:25 AM
#257
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Originally Posted by IceY2K1
You can't use the 4th gen injectors, since that requires the 4th gen lower intake manifold, which without some hefty work, won't bolt to the upper intake manifold.
Either injector will work with the 4th gen ECU, however you'll probably be rich due to the extra 50cc, so you'll need to turn down fuel pressure some, ie need an adjustable FPR. Might not be 100% necessary though.
Either injector will work with the 4th gen ECU, however you'll probably be rich due to the extra 50cc, so you'll need to turn down fuel pressure some, ie need an adjustable FPR. Might not be 100% necessary though.
i checked rfor vacumm leaks but still need to get that smoke ran thru myu system for sure. Im getting a v-afc 2 and fpr but waiting for $
05-22-2004, 02:09 PM
#258
That's exactly what I was thinking.
Any chance that nipple could be eliminated by tapping another vacuum line?
Any chance that nipple could be eliminated by tapping another vacuum line?
Originally Posted by krismax
If i made another IACV block i would bring the IACV face closer in to the block with almost no seperation. Also that IACV is only getting clocked a few degrees not as much as it looks.
The nipple under my adapter block is for a vavumm tube in that area that was on 96 manifold.
The nipple under my adapter block is for a vavumm tube in that area that was on 96 manifold.
05-22-2004, 04:50 PM
#259
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Originally Posted by IceY2K1
That's exactly what I was thinking.
Any chance that nipple could be eliminated by tapping another vacuum line?
Any chance that nipple could be eliminated by tapping another vacuum line?
I thought vacumm changed over distance thats why i put that there very simple to do.
05-23-2004, 09:05 AM
#262
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Originally Posted by IceY2K1
Any idea what that THIRD small *SQUARE* hole/chamber is just to the RIGHT of the other two. It looked to me to be TOTALLY sealed, yet it had two drain plugs underneath and a gasket that seals it from the vacuum canister.
Still wondering WTH that is.
It looked to me to be TOTALLY sealed, yet it had two drain plugs underneath and a gasket that seals it from the vacuum canister.Still wondering WTH that is.
05-23-2004, 10:50 AM
#263
Auuuuugh....IC said the blind man.
Thanks...that makes sense.
Thanks...that makes sense.
Originally Posted by Thaniel
That chamber is the vacumme tank that supplys Vac to the VIAS solenoid. The VIAS solenoid when actuated then lets the vacumme flow to the VIAS actuator to open the "power Valve".
05-24-2004, 07:19 AM
#264
Man there is some great reading in this thread. Congrats on getting the manifold installed.
Concerning the similar but different designs of the DE-K vs. MEVI, another great discovery, not the one most of us were hoping for, but still good to understand what we are dealing with. There must be some advantage to the DE-K weather it be that it's made of plastic, the volume is more appropriately matched to the engine, or the shape somehow effects the flow or resonance better. Either way this is some good stuff.
Concerning the similar but different designs of the DE-K vs. MEVI, another great discovery, not the one most of us were hoping for, but still good to understand what we are dealing with. There must be some advantage to the DE-K weather it be that it's made of plastic, the volume is more appropriately matched to the engine, or the shape somehow effects the flow or resonance better. Either way this is some good stuff.
05-24-2004, 10:45 AM
#265
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
That's easier though, just use the "intake adapter" aka restrictor as a template for the bolts. No need to "clock it" so the Pathy bolts and the DEK bolts don't interfere.
The only difficult part is the 90-degree part that holds the IACV.
The only difficult part is the 90-degree part that holds the IACV.
For the past month I have been running with my IACV completely blocked off and the idle speed set using the throttle plate adjusting screw, just like we did back in carbureted days.
I am doing this as an experiment. I have the idle set at about 900 rpm with the engine hot. It drops down to about 6-700 with the AC on. There is a very shallow fluctuation in idle speed as the ecu cycles the afr around stoichiometric. Driveability is not affected.
The reason I mention this is that if people wanted to fit the DE-K intake to the DE engine, they don't absolutely have to have an IACV adapter made in order for it to work.
05-24-2004, 11:08 AM
#268
Originally Posted by vsamoylov
and how long does it take ur engine to warm up when it cold? The hold poiint of the IACV is that ur engine warmps up quicker and if u dont have it, ur going to be sitting there with ur foot on the gas to get it warmed up.
I have to keep the throttle depressed a bit when I first start the car and back out of the garage. By the time I get to the stop sign at the end of my street, about 400 yards, the engine is warm enough to idle by itself.
So I guess driveability is affected for about the first minute after starting a cold engine.
05-24-2004, 11:53 AM
#270
Originally Posted by BSwithTF
When you say cold engine, do you mean summer cold or winter cold?
What are the 3 sensors associated with the IACV block and are they needed?
What are the 3 sensors associated with the IACV block and are they needed?
The IACV consists of valves that control air flow into the intake, controlled by the ecu. There is the main stepper valve and two auxiliary valves, one for when the AC is on and one for when power steering is being used.
05-25-2004, 12:27 AM
#274
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I want that thing in my car So badly. If I had ANY extra cash...
The problem is that this Path 2 runner would be facing toward the front bumper.
Since the dipstick is on the right... according to the previously posted diagram.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
The problem is that this Path 2 runner would be facing toward the front bumper.
Since the dipstick is on the right... according to the previously posted diagram.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
05-25-2004, 10:54 AM
#277
Okay, who's got the resources to look up the plug on the '00 IACV and tell me what each prong is for? I pulled the whole thing apart and it's really quite simple. Instead of a hose running from the midpipe, there is a "tunnel" from the front side of the butterfly to the backside and the stepper motor allows are through there at idle. I'm wondering if they didn't combine all of the sensors from the old style into one single plug in the new style IACV. Does anyone have the FSM with this info? Also, what are the voltage inputs for each pin. It'd be awesome if they were similar enough to the DE IACV inputs that all it would take is to splice into the new plug and "BOOM" working IACV.
Maybe I'm dreaming but it's worth a shot.
Maybe I'm dreaming but it's worth a shot.
05-25-2004, 11:11 AM
#278
I do....
However, I doubt that will work. Especially, since the TPS is integrated on the 5th gen(4th gen?).
However, I doubt that will work. Especially, since the TPS is integrated on the 5th gen(4th gen?).
Originally Posted by BSwithTF
Okay, who's got the resources to look up the plug on the '00 IACV and tell me what each prong is for? I pulled the whole thing apart and it's really quite simple. Instead of a hose running from the midpipe, there is a "tunnel" from the front side of the butterfly to the backside and the stepper motor allows are through there at idle. I'm wondering if they didn't combine all of the sensors from the old style into one single plug in the new style IACV. Does anyone have the FSM with this info? Also, what are the voltage inputs for each pin. It'd be awesome if they were similar enough to the DE IACV inputs that all it would take is to splice into the new plug and "BOOM" working IACV.
Maybe I'm dreaming but it's worth a shot.
Maybe I'm dreaming but it's worth a shot.
05-25-2004, 11:15 AM
#279
Here's a start:
This system automatically controls engine idle speed to a specified level. Idle speed is controlled through fine adjustment of the amount of air which by-passes the throttle valve via IACV-AAC valve. The IACV-AAC valve changes the opening of the air by-pass passage to control the amount of auxiliary air. This valve is actuated by a step motor built into the valve, which moves the valve in the axial direction in steps corresponding to the ECM output signals. One step of IACV-AAC valve movement causes the respective opening of the air by-pass passage. (i.e. when the step advances, the opening is enlarged.) The opening of the valve is varied to allow for optimum control of the engine idling speed. The crankshaft position sensor (POS) detects the actual engine speed and sends a signal to the ECM. The ECM then controls the step position of the IACV-AAC valve so that engine speed coincides with the target value memorized in ECM. The target engine speed is the lowest speed at which the engine can operate steadily. The optimum value stored in the ECM is determined by takig into consideration various engine conditions, such as during warm up, deceleration, and engine load (air conditioner, power steering and cooling fan operation).
COMPONENT DESCRIPTION
IACV-AAC Valve
The IACV-AAC valve is operated by a step motor for centralized control of auxiliary air supply. This motor has four winding phases and is actuated by the output signals of ECM which turns ON and OFF two windings each in seqeunce. Each time the IACV-AAC valve opens or closes to change tha auxiliary air quantity, the ECM sends a pulse signal to the step motor. When no change in the auxiliary air quantity is needed, the ECM does not issue the pulse signal. A certain voltage signal is issued so that the valve remains at that particular opening.
COMPONENT DESCRIPTION
IACV-AAC Valve
The IACV-AAC valve is operated by a step motor for centralized control of auxiliary air supply. This motor has four winding phases and is actuated by the output signals of ECM which turns ON and OFF two windings each in seqeunce. Each time the IACV-AAC valve opens or closes to change tha auxiliary air quantity, the ECM sends a pulse signal to the step motor. When no change in the auxiliary air quantity is needed, the ECM does not issue the pulse signal. A certain voltage signal is issued so that the valve remains at that particular opening.
05-25-2004, 12:31 PM
#280
Being as they are both motors with 6 prong plugs, I'm wondering if you splice the wires from the 4th gen wiring harness to the wires for the 5th gen IACV plug, if the ECU applies voltages to the different prongs, if the motor will work the same as if it were connected to the 4th gen IACV motor. Does that make any sense at all? They both open and close based on voltage signals from the ECU, right?