Chinkzilla

http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0...ory_page_next1


very interesting.

El Gabito

I've heard much about this, and I think it will happen eventually. It'll put a hurt on companies like JWT who crack ECU codes. But I think it's only right.

GlacialBass

It shouldn't hurt companies like JWT by any means. In fact, it should be just the opposite. JWT sells reprogramed ECUs. Even if the code is open to the public, Joe Q. Public has NO idea how to start reprogramming their own computer. It would make it easier for a company like JWT to reprogram ECUs, and in turn bring them more money.

d_warner

So does that mean that previous vehicles will also have their encoding revealed or just the new cars that come to the market. I think it would be a great idea. I mean, just imagine plugging a laptop in for basically a fuel management system etc. instead of buying a whole system.

Guinader

iTrader: (1)

off topic:
speaking on reprograming ECUs, (and Joe public) isn't there a way we (.org members) to try to learn to reprogram the ECU by our selfs (DIY)
that could save us ($500) which is a rip off from JWT and others.

(maybe this is not the right place to post this comment)

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

By all means, go ahead and try. People have tried before and given up, but maybe your effort will be fruitful.

Chinkzilla

the real problem isn't the OBDII standard that has been open (more or less) for quite some time. It's really the proprietary engine management systems that each car manufacturer uses. For instance the nissan systems to alter fuel delivery, ignition timing, variable cam timing, VIAS switchover, are all designed to be altered only by the Consult II. Which costs about 20 g's and can only be bought by Nissan dealers. This is pretty much unfair business practice. When/If they release the algorithms and source code, it will allow third party companies to build hardware that can fully interface with our cars for more than just diagnostic purposes.

That means if you're not a kung-fu acrobat you don't have to go to the dealer and pay 90 bucks just for them to do a simple idle air learning procedure.

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

Unfair business practice? Nah. I don't see it that way at all. Yes, it's a big advantage to the consumer if the algorithms are released, but Nissan's goal is to make a profit, not make life easy for the consumer. Now, if making life easy for the consumer generates more profit, then they are stupid not to go down that path, but I don't see anything inherently unfair if they wish to keep their engine management secret. I've never heard anybody accuse Apple Computer of unfair business practice because of their closed architecture. Stupid, maybe - unfair, no.

Guinader

iTrader: (1)

hey, think about it like this, in the past 100 years we got 1000's of car companies millions of dollars made. I
In 100 more years, I would like it existed only one mega-car company that produced cars that are care-free (built with perfection) and cheap. and there will be no monopoly of big or small companies.
opening this ECU and forcing GM,Nissan, etc to release the "codes" ; will only break one of the legs of this big companies monopoly, eventualy companies will weaken and will become what I mentioned above (one gigantic Mega-company).

These are just the first steps.
gui

hakk97se

There is no point in having closed source ECU's and there never was. The algorithms that Nissan uses to manage a specific nissan engine have very little bearing on what another manufacturer's engine would take. The amount of money they make from ECU reprogramming at Dealerships has to be minimal. And you have to know that they probably didnt build the Consult II, so I'm sure they don't make much money off selling it to dealerships. And it's not like they are going to lose money by having other "compatible" ECU's on the market because all of their cars will come with an ECU, so that's a guaranteed sale. I doubt they make much on replacement ECU's either. I mean, how often do they get damaged.

The only remote reason I can think of is that using the computer, they can de-tune an engine for lesser models. Not sure really how necessary that is, but open sourcing the ECU would certainly put an end to that.

Anyway, I hope this comes true. It's been a long time coming. I would love to hack on some ECU's.

DAVE Sz

iTrader: (2)

If this does happen, all hell will brake loose. Soon you'll see kits on ebay that let you tune your ECU. All that will do is put tons of riceboys on the streets with overtuned cars trying to race everyone. Many people will get hurt or die. On a positive note, the prices for tuning services will probably plummet.

liqidvenom

iTrader: (6)

so does that mean a company could even make a whole new ecu for my 98 maxima?

DAVE Sz

iTrader: (2)

Why? That would cost WAY more than just modifing the current data.

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

Wow! This is absolutely astounding. I can't wait. Guinader, I'm kinda startled by your statement. Its sorta ironic. Your saying that we need to get rid of monopolies and yet you want one mega-company, hence a monopoly.

Chinkzilla

i'm with hakk97se on this one.. open source is good and i can't wait to get my hands on some source code

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

Nice article

Lucky for me, my ECU can be swapped out for a Z32 ECU, where they have tons and tons of options

Jay93SE

haven't heard that one yet, more info please!

DA-MAX

iTrader: (10)

thats ****ing ignorant as hell...people kill people not guns. if you had any inkling of whats involved with tuning cars or ECU design you wouldn't be saying that, cause theres a lot more involved than these guys out here with the fluke *** AFC BS(no offense, just a general statement)...riceboys running around "tuning"...heh not likely, most can't even comprehend whats involved in REAL tuning. I've been doing Honda ECU chipping and tuning for the past 6-8 months and the amount of money you save using these free ROM editors is amazing. honda code has been known for years by the simple backyard tuner to the big time companies like Hondata...who make $1000s off poor saps who are either too scared or not DIY enough to venture in DIY rom editing(which there is nothing wrong with, but why fear what you don't understand) to say open sourcing and further DIY rom development is a bad idea is plain retarded. how do expect to move forward if you have to keep shelling out to JWT, etc.?? EVOLVE!

DAVE Sz

iTrader: (2)

How much you wanna bet that that's exactly whats gonna happen. Most of the people with huge wings and fart cans are such ignorant ****** that they wont even care what you tell them. I've seen and read about how the big guys tune the ECUs. Hundreds of hours of inputing data and trial and error. What these guys will do as soon as they find a kit is just try to max out their specs without even caring about the consequences. Where the hell did I say it's a bad idea? I'll be happy cause I won't be an idiot when it comes to it. Open source is great, **** monopolies.

Quicksilver

iTrader: (1)

Consult II is $4000-$5000...not $20K

MaximaMan77

I brought this topic up with Jay at Autoenginuity and he told me that part of this as already passed legislation. Not only have they gotten alot of info from Nissan but many other manufacturers as well, including BMW, and that there will be updates and newly released options to buy that support extended data from these cars by the end of the year.

BTW there is a group buy going on now for their unit now in the GD section here check it out.

Chinkzilla

details, details! excuse my bit of hyperbole, i was only quoting what i've read on this board

Maximaman777: oooh, that thing looks pretty nifty!

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

There's a BIG difference between open-sourcing the code and people being able to easily translate the code into something useful.

documentation? riiiiiight.. the engineers stripped all the documentation out of the ECU before it went into production.. thus the stuff that will be released to the public is simply the code itself.. and something as complicated as an engine ECU will NOT be easy to decipher. As an electrical engineer, I've dealt with this stuff before- even been handed the code to smaller projects and asked to figure out what's wrong with it.. it's NOT easy.

With time, there will be people/companies who put in the hours to properly decipher the code and make a user-friendly interface for it (similar to Hondata), but it's still going to take a while and it won't be cheap.

this isn't going to cause all the ricers in the world to go crazy, and it's not going to cause the car companies to collapse. you're making a mountain out of a molehill, guys.

hakk97se

Uh, like dealing with a lack of documentation in open source code is anything new? Especially with embedded code. I'm a competent computer engineer, I'll take my chances with the source. I don't need a fancy interface to it, and those that do probably shouldn't be messing with their ECU's code themselves.

What we'll need are engine simulators to test the ECU on That'll be sweeeeeet.