Got some #'s....not good
09-07-2004, 01:30 PM
#81
I think it'd work out if you went to the cheaper place, but DEFINITELY compare it WITH and WITHOUT the check valve in place...
That would make it hard to compare with the older dynos, but you'd be able to determine if the check valve did anything.
That would make it hard to compare with the older dynos, but you'd be able to determine if the check valve did anything.
09-07-2004, 02:52 PM
#82
Originally Posted by I30tMikeD
Do you guys think it's important to go back to the same dyno? I know of a place I can save about $40 and I did not much care for the people at the first place I went to.
If I do dyno again, and some miracle happens that my curve looks normal then I will dyno my second run with the check valve removed and see what happens.
If I do dyno again, and some miracle happens that my curve looks normal then I will dyno my second run with the check valve removed and see what happens.
Oh, and your car felt fine to me yesterday. Definately no 20whp loss that I could feel. Sorry I couldn't make more time for logs or even gtech runs to try more.
09-07-2004, 02:56 PM
#83
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Originally Posted by I30tMikeD
T
What is a good way to read my fuel pressure?.....I suppose T off a fuel line and run it into the cabin of the car. Should I be worried about having a fuel line connected to a pressure gauge inside my car at WOT?
What is a good way to read my fuel pressure?.....I suppose T off a fuel line and run it into the cabin of the car. Should I be worried about having a fuel line connected to a pressure gauge inside my car at WOT?
I would normally say it is important to dyno in the same place for future use when modding, but in your case you are trying to see if a very noticeable problem is corrected, so another dyno would work.
09-07-2004, 03:22 PM
#84
Originally Posted by I30tMikeD
What is a good way to read my fuel pressure?.....I suppose T off a fuel line and run it into the cabin of the car. Should I be worried about having a fuel line connected to a pressure gauge inside my car at WOT?
96sleeper said it, I'll show you pics of how I did it....
09-07-2004, 04:45 PM
#85
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Thanks for the advice and pics guys! If I do the fuel pressure test I will definately have to get a better pressure gauge. Mine is kinda cheapo.
Brian....I am thinking I will dyno at APG, but because of my schedule it will probably be a morning during the week so I don't know how that conflicts with your work schedule.
Brian....I am thinking I will dyno at APG, but because of my schedule it will probably be a morning during the week so I don't know how that conflicts with your work schedule.
09-08-2004, 10:21 PM
#87
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interesting results at the strip tonight. Did not run fast by any means, but not bad enought to think I still have a major power loss. I did not do any weight reduction and ran no race gas like I usually do. At my regular track in the past I normaly run at least 14.3 and trap at least98mph
couple best slips
2.176
6.100
9.343
75.36 mph
12.162
14.537
96.31 mph
2.147
6.084
9.350
75.10 mph
12.184
14.574
95.86 mph
ET's were nothing to brag about. But I don't see how I could still be losing 25whp after 5K rpms and still gain my usual 20-21 mph in the second 1/8.
There are way too many variables to really compare against my old times. New motor, new mods, track I had never been to before
I kind wish I either ran really slow or really fast. That way I would be sure of things.
couple best slips
2.176
6.100
9.343
75.36 mph
12.162
14.537
96.31 mph
2.147
6.084
9.350
75.10 mph
12.184
14.574
95.86 mph
ET's were nothing to brag about. But I don't see how I could still be losing 25whp after 5K rpms and still gain my usual 20-21 mph in the second 1/8.
There are way too many variables to really compare against my old times. New motor, new mods, track I had never been to before
I kind wish I either ran really slow or really fast. That way I would be sure of things.
09-09-2004, 12:11 AM
#88
What track... still it looks to me like something's still weird. with a 2.14 60' time and a 96mph trap you should be well into the 14.4s... or were you getting alot of wheelspin into 2nd gear or past the 60'. and i assume you were running it right out to 7200.
09-09-2004, 12:38 AM
#89
Nevermind on the "what track" question I just checked my phone, my ringer was on silent all night, and your call was one of 7 that I missed including a girl wanting to hang out tonight and my flight instructor calling me, doh!
Anyways have you ever run at GLD before, that track blows ***** and I wouldn't be surprised if you were running normal traps at byron or rt 66. That's the track that brian was only trapping 98mph with his 50 shot at... whereas when he ran at rt 66 he was trapping 100mph in very poor conditions.
Anyways have you ever run at GLD before, that track blows ***** and I wouldn't be surprised if you were running normal traps at byron or rt 66. That's the track that brian was only trapping 98mph with his 50 shot at... whereas when he ran at rt 66 he was trapping 100mph in very poor conditions.
09-09-2004, 11:12 AM
#90
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Originally Posted by Nealoc187
Nevermind on the "what track" question I just checked my phone, my ringer was on silent all night, and your call was one of 7 that I missed including a girl wanting to hang out tonight and my flight instructor calling me, doh!
Anyways have you ever run at GLD before, that track blows ***** and I wouldn't be surprised if you were running normal traps at byron or rt 66. That's the track that brian was only trapping 98mph with his 50 shot at... whereas when he ran at rt 66 he was trapping 100mph in very poor conditions.
Anyways have you ever run at GLD before, that track blows ***** and I wouldn't be surprised if you were running normal traps at byron or rt 66. That's the track that brian was only trapping 98mph with his 50 shot at... whereas when he ran at rt 66 he was trapping 100mph in very poor conditions.
I didn't think it was all that bad. they have resurfaced the whole track in the last year so maybe it's better since last time you were there. A 5spd 4th gen with intake and y-pipe ran a 14.5 @ 96 last week so I can't be that slow of a track. I would like to think it was just a "slow" track.
I am going to the dyno again on tomorrow afternoon, we will see what happens.
09-10-2004, 03:54 PM
#91
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Alrighty then. I think I got some things figured out here. Went to a different dyno this time.
When hooking up for the rpm signal we noticed that the signal wire on one of my coil packs was hanging on by two wires. This is where I used to have my Harlan hooked up. I kinda knew about it but since I didn't have any misfire problems or codes I figured it was fine.
We did the first pull and the curved look just like last time (except my VI now works). Powering falling way off after 6K rpm's.
The guy doing the dyno really thought the coil pack wire was big deal so he solderd it for me and we did the another pull. I gained torque throughout the power band and peak of 11lbs after the coil was fixed. But my curve still looked like crap.
We had been talking the whole time about my power loss issues and he looked at my old dyno. He seemed to think it was the clutch slipping and said he could smell it after my first two pulls. We decided to do the last pull in 3rd gear thinking it wouldn't be so hard on the clutch. 4th gear takes a long time to wind out and alot of heat is generated.
So we did a 3rd gear pull and my curve looked normal! No more 25hp loss from 6K-redline.
Here is the scanned copy of the dyno. The 3rd gear pull is kinda hard to see but it's obvious I keep my hp curve basically flat till redline.
First run with bad coil pack wire 174tq/172hp
Second run with coil fixed 185tq/182hp
Thrid run in 3rd gear 180tq/184hp
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...iked/dyno2.jpg
When hooking up for the rpm signal we noticed that the signal wire on one of my coil packs was hanging on by two wires. This is where I used to have my Harlan hooked up. I kinda knew about it but since I didn't have any misfire problems or codes I figured it was fine.
We did the first pull and the curved look just like last time (except my VI now works). Powering falling way off after 6K rpm's.
The guy doing the dyno really thought the coil pack wire was big deal so he solderd it for me and we did the another pull. I gained torque throughout the power band and peak of 11lbs after the coil was fixed. But my curve still looked like crap.
We had been talking the whole time about my power loss issues and he looked at my old dyno. He seemed to think it was the clutch slipping and said he could smell it after my first two pulls. We decided to do the last pull in 3rd gear thinking it wouldn't be so hard on the clutch. 4th gear takes a long time to wind out and alot of heat is generated.
So we did a 3rd gear pull and my curve looked normal! No more 25hp loss from 6K-redline.
Here is the scanned copy of the dyno. The 3rd gear pull is kinda hard to see but it's obvious I keep my hp curve basically flat till redline.
First run with bad coil pack wire 174tq/172hp
Second run with coil fixed 185tq/182hp
Thrid run in 3rd gear 180tq/184hp
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...iked/dyno2.jpg
09-10-2004, 04:08 PM
#93
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Originally Posted by Jeff92se
That guy knows his stuff! How is your clutch anyway?? Was it getting old?
No, the clutch is only about 18K miles old. Jeff, remeber how I messed up my motor and I was all concerned about how my flywheel and clutch looked? Maybe it was more damaged than I thought. I never did resurface it before I put it back in. I will try and find those pics I took of the fidanza.
What confuses me is that the clutch grabs fine. I can rip through second with my drag radials no problem. I can even scratch second when down shifting from 3rd. This guy told me that a clutch can seem to grab fine but can slip as it heats up and the rpms get higher. He said that how flat my power curve is and how far my car revs that the clutch may just start heat up and slip.
Do you buy this?
I don't know, but for whatever reason my 3rd gear pull was normal.
09-10-2004, 04:16 PM
#94
I don't know Mike. A slightly slipping clutch might be hard to catch on the butt dyno. I have never heard of a clutch grabbing okay inbetween gears and not IN gear. To me that sounds odd. But who knows? It's a new look on the problem. I think one way to tell is if the RPM rises too fast in relation to the MPH on the speedo??
09-10-2004, 04:34 PM
#95
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Originally Posted by Jeff92se
I don't know Mike. A slightly slipping clutch might be hard to catch on the butt dyno. I have never heard of a clutch grabbing okay inbetween gears and not IN gear. To me that sounds odd. But who knows? It's a new look on the problem. I think one way to tell is if the RPM rises too fast in relation to the MPH on the speedo??
I am glad I got a normal looking curve, but I am still left with a bunch of questions
09-10-2004, 10:30 PM
#96
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Mike:
I don't think you're clutch is slipping because usually when it happens there is a dramatic plummet in power. I've watched it happen on the dyno on quite a few cars and you're car isn't showing what I've typically seen. If your car can scratch the DRs, then your clutch is probably fine. Your 3rd gear pull is definitely showing that everything seems to be working. The numbers are still a little low, but all dynos will read a little differently. After doing some research, I've come to find out that a 3rd gear pull will typically show about 3% less power than a 4th gear pull so your car is probably making closer to 190-191whp in 4th. Seeing that temps are still a bit warm out and your car was hot, I'd venture to say you'd probably be putting down close to 200whp in cooler weather and a cool down.
I think your problem probably was that ignition coil wiring because your whole power curve changed right at the point where all your problems were being seen. I would bet if you went back to the track now you'd be seeing 14.3s@98mph in this warmer weather. The gains after 6100rpms are pretty significant and 3rd gear would be able leg out a lot more.
Also, what kind of plugs are you running? NGK coppers? I've been doing a lot of research lately and I'm starting to put the puzzle together that the OEM DOUBLE TIPPED platinum plugs (ie NGK PFR5G-11) might be more ideal than the coppers many of us are using. While the coppers have a stronger spark, they cannot deal with higher compressions, higher heat, advanced timing, etc as well as a expensive double tipped plat plug. Single tipped plat plugs like Bosch plugs are cheap because they don't have these characteristics. Hell, Audi 2.7TT motors generate a ton of heat and compression and they run double tipped plats. I'm starting to think that Nissan probably used the plat NGKs in the VQ motors for more reasons than longevity. Will you gain more power back? I don't know, but I'd like to think that my car might not be as suseptable to heat soak as it currently is with the NGK coppers. I've pulled my coppers on multiple occasions and they show signs of high heat (whiting of the electrode). I'll be ordering a set of NGK plats soon. I'll keep you posted.
I don't think you're clutch is slipping because usually when it happens there is a dramatic plummet in power. I've watched it happen on the dyno on quite a few cars and you're car isn't showing what I've typically seen. If your car can scratch the DRs, then your clutch is probably fine. Your 3rd gear pull is definitely showing that everything seems to be working. The numbers are still a little low, but all dynos will read a little differently. After doing some research, I've come to find out that a 3rd gear pull will typically show about 3% less power than a 4th gear pull so your car is probably making closer to 190-191whp in 4th. Seeing that temps are still a bit warm out and your car was hot, I'd venture to say you'd probably be putting down close to 200whp in cooler weather and a cool down.
I think your problem probably was that ignition coil wiring because your whole power curve changed right at the point where all your problems were being seen. I would bet if you went back to the track now you'd be seeing 14.3s@98mph in this warmer weather. The gains after 6100rpms are pretty significant and 3rd gear would be able leg out a lot more.
Also, what kind of plugs are you running? NGK coppers? I've been doing a lot of research lately and I'm starting to put the puzzle together that the OEM DOUBLE TIPPED platinum plugs (ie NGK PFR5G-11) might be more ideal than the coppers many of us are using. While the coppers have a stronger spark, they cannot deal with higher compressions, higher heat, advanced timing, etc as well as a expensive double tipped plat plug. Single tipped plat plugs like Bosch plugs are cheap because they don't have these characteristics. Hell, Audi 2.7TT motors generate a ton of heat and compression and they run double tipped plats. I'm starting to think that Nissan probably used the plat NGKs in the VQ motors for more reasons than longevity. Will you gain more power back? I don't know, but I'd like to think that my car might not be as suseptable to heat soak as it currently is with the NGK coppers. I've pulled my coppers on multiple occasions and they show signs of high heat (whiting of the electrode). I'll be ordering a set of NGK plats soon. I'll keep you posted.
09-10-2004, 10:50 PM
#97
As I told him, I have a sneaking suspicion that mike is flowing enough air with a 7200rpm limiter, headers, and mevi, that his lack of a catback may be hurting him. I'm not convinced about the clutch slippage theory either because of his ability to scratch the DRs, when I have ruined clutches before, high performance shifts have been the first thing to suffer (it's quite evident when the clutch isn't grabbing after a shift like it should) and then it will start slipping under load in the highest gear, followed by the next highest and so on, I also find it strange that his run in 4th gear would be so much different than his run in 3rd gear.
09-10-2004, 10:56 PM
#98
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So if you don't think it's the clutch then what do you make of the power not droping in 3rd gear? I still lost massive power with the coil pack fixed on the second run.
Don't know if this correlates properly, but on the first dyno I made over 180tq with the bad coil pack....so I would assume I would be making 190+ tq on the other dyno.
Byron dragway is having T&T tomorrow...I really want to go but it's gonna be kind warm. I have also dropped about $250 in dyno and track time in the last week.
Don't know if this correlates properly, but on the first dyno I made over 180tq with the bad coil pack....so I would assume I would be making 190+ tq on the other dyno.
Byron dragway is having T&T tomorrow...I really want to go but it's gonna be kind warm. I have also dropped about $250 in dyno and track time in the last week.
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