3rd gen vs 4th gen
Originally Posted by Maxima-4DSC
ive driven both, VQ would get it off the line but the VE would play catch up fairly quickly, now if you wanna talk a real race like a 4th and 3rd gen 5speed then its hard to say again ive driven both and my a$$ dyno says its any mans (or womans) game....but on a road course the 4th gen just cant stand ground
Someone point me to a dyno of a well running VE auto with said mods and I will run a cartest comparison of them if you guys wish. And for those of you who say "that won't prove anything" you are right but my cartest simulations are close enough to model my 1/4 mile times down to the .05 second and .05mph and even close enough that they modeled a member of another message boards 419whp cammed LS1 in the standing mile to within .3mph. Cartest said he would be going 166.68 mph at the end of a standing mile and when he went to the event (it was a drag event at an airstrip in texas using normal dragway timing equipment except it was 1 mile long) and his trap speed at the end of the 1 mile run was 166.3mph so it's pretty flippin close. So if anyone wants to have me make some hypothetical runs i'd be happy to.
If anyone cares, I did a cartest analysis of a 4th gen auto with I/Y/E, and a VE with I/Y/E, and it took me an hour so you dang well better enjoy it 
I used actual dynos, and input the HP and TQ at 500rpm intervals. Peak values were:
VE: 168hp @ 5750rpm and 171tq @ 3900rpm
VQ: 171hp @ 5200rpm and 180tq @ 4750rpm
Race weight:
VE: 3300
VQ: 3170
So... From a dead stop:
The VQ will pull out and continues to pull out til 120mph where the VE finally stops the VQ's pull, and after 120 the VE is pulling back. Because of it's better top end, the VE obviously gets to 130mph much quicker (6 seconds quicker) than the VQ.
In terms of distance, the VQ is ahead the entire time, and somewhere around 3/4 of a mile into the race the VE has stopped the VQs pull and is pulling back slowly, though it hasn't caught the VQ by the 1 mile mark. At the 1.5 mile mark, they are dead even with the VE pulling away at about 2mph (a slow walk).
From a roll: VQ would pull out from most any speed initially, but we are talking a matter of like 1-2 feet here, and then the VE would start to pull back slowly, and when the speeds get extreme i.e. over 120mph the VE is pulling at a slow walk past the VQ and away.
There you have it, no bias, no bs, just numbers. Of course this is just a simulation (albeit a darn good one if you ask me, this program rocks).
I used actual dynos, and input the HP and TQ at 500rpm intervals. Peak values were:VE: 168hp @ 5750rpm and 171tq @ 3900rpm
VQ: 171hp @ 5200rpm and 180tq @ 4750rpm
Race weight:
VE: 3300
VQ: 3170
Code:
Time to speed: VE VQ 0-60 6.90 6.74 0-100 18.53 18.15 0-120 29.53 29.54 0-130 48.83 55.94 Time to distance, sec: 60' 2.28 2.27 mph 29.21 29.71 330' 6.35 6.30 mph 56.89 57.42 660' 9.76 9.66 mph 74.58 75.52 1000' 12.65 12.54 mph 83.88 84.13 1320' 15.15 15.03 mph 91.60 91.86 2640' 23.98 23.79 mph 111.24 112.34 5280' 38.88 38.70 mph 126.94 125.78 7920' 52.83 52.83 mph 131.19 129.30
So... From a dead stop:
The VQ will pull out and continues to pull out til 120mph where the VE finally stops the VQ's pull, and after 120 the VE is pulling back. Because of it's better top end, the VE obviously gets to 130mph much quicker (6 seconds quicker) than the VQ.
In terms of distance, the VQ is ahead the entire time, and somewhere around 3/4 of a mile into the race the VE has stopped the VQs pull and is pulling back slowly, though it hasn't caught the VQ by the 1 mile mark. At the 1.5 mile mark, they are dead even with the VE pulling away at about 2mph (a slow walk).
From a roll: VQ would pull out from most any speed initially, but we are talking a matter of like 1-2 feet here, and then the VE would start to pull back slowly, and when the speeds get extreme i.e. over 120mph the VE is pulling at a slow walk past the VQ and away.
There you have it, no bias, no bs, just numbers. Of course this is just a simulation (albeit a darn good one if you ask me, this program rocks).
Originally Posted by zack342
yaya for the VQ 
your numbers are off by a bit nealoc
i mad 176 WHP and 190WTQ with I/Y/E
your numbers are off by a bit nealoc
i mad 176 WHP and 190WTQ with I/Y/E
The numbers aren't off at all. These are actual numbers taken from actual dyno plots. Anyways, your car is a 5 speed and these are autos...
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I've owned a 4th Gen Auto and a 5.5 Gen 6 speed..
I've always admired the 5-speed 3rd Gens, both the VG and the VE. If I could find a 3rd Gen in good shape I wouldn't mind one in my garage. (but I'd rather find a nice used Z to complement my SE-R)
I won't buy another car with a beam rear-suspension, they are to dangerous on these pothole infested Kansas City roads...
I've always admired the 5-speed 3rd Gens, both the VG and the VE. If I could find a 3rd Gen in good shape I wouldn't mind one in my garage. (but I'd rather find a nice used Z to complement my SE-R)
I won't buy another car with a beam rear-suspension, they are to dangerous on these pothole infested Kansas City roads...
Originally Posted by Jade95Maxima
why fight against eachother when we have ***** a$$ hondas out there that need to see this power before them.
Tony
Tony
.VE's are cool too
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 891
Originally Posted by zack342
beacause its fun.but at the End of it the day its important to remeber which MAXIMA saved nissan from going under in the late 90's it was the one and only 4th gen and regaurdess of who has greater top end, the VQ is, well how can i put this, "one of the best V6 Engines in the world .
VE's are cool too
.VE's are cool too
Tony
Originally Posted by D-sta
I've taken many 4th gens out on the highway easily with my modded VE 5-speed. On turns also, 4th gens can't hang.
Who agrees with me that the 3G and 4G are the best looking Maximas by far? Actually, I have a soft spot in my heart for 2Gs, they're in the same class. The newer Maximas are ugly.
Originally Posted by zack342
5.5 gen is the hottest looking hands down
Originally Posted by Aaron92SE
I don't understand why people are argueing this. The VQ Auto will definitely win in the 1/4 mile. It is atleast 3 tenths faster than the VE Auto in the 1/4 mile.
Originally Posted by kenji
So 4th gen's need to compensate by including the should have been stock VI. Interested in what the same VQ would do with a VI (stock ECU)
Originally Posted by JTMAX03
D-sta has one of the best 3 gen out their.
Originally Posted by zack342
beacause its fun.but at the End of it the day its important to remeber which MAXIMA saved nissan from going under in the late 90's it was the one and only 4th gen and regaurdless of who has greater top end, the VQ is, well how can i put this, "one of the best V6 Engines in the world" .
VE's are cool too
.VE's are cool too
Originally Posted by zack342
then i will be able to say i have drive a 2nd gen,3rd gen,4th gen,5gen and 5.5 gen and 6th gen
Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 35
I have both a VE and a VQ, both 5-spd SEs, '93 and '97.
They are completely different animals.
The '97 is a nice smooth runner, nice for highway cruising.
The '93 feels sportier and is a lot more fun in the curves.
I like the '97. I love the '93.
They are completely different animals.
The '97 is a nice smooth runner, nice for highway cruising.
The '93 feels sportier and is a lot more fun in the curves.
I like the '97. I love the '93.
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Originally Posted by zack342
beacause its fun.but at the End of it the day its important to remeber which MAXIMA saved nissan from going under in the late 90's it was the one and only 4th gen and regaurdless of who has greater top end, the VQ is, well how can i put this, "one of the best V6 Engines in the world" .
VE's are cool too
.VE's are cool too
Renault saved Nissan in the late 90's by keeping them from going bankrupt. Nissan still didn't make much for a couple of years...it took Carlos Ghosn a few to get things going.
the vq35 & MAJOR platform sharing resurrected Nissan in the early 00's...(never would have had the chance to if Renault didn't save our a$$es)
(of the vq engines, I like the vq30 better, and I have owned both a vq30 and two vq35s)
I read this whole battle of 3rd gen vs 4th gen- VE vs VQ yadie yadie yada.... but no one mentioned the VQ30DE-K, which has supperior top end power ( when the VIAS is working that is ). I owned a 3rd gen VG 5spd, 300K miles and she ran like new still, very fun to drive car, reliable as hell too. With a leaking flex pipe, she still pegged the speedo in 4th gear, and 5th pulled nicely still.... VQ-K vs VE would be a nice race.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,106
Originally Posted by BlackBIRDVQ
I read this whole battle of 3rd gen vs 4th gen- VE vs VQ yadie yadie yada.... but no one mentioned the VQ30DE-K, which has supperior top end power ( when the VIAS is working that is ). I owned a 3rd gen VG 5spd, 300K miles and she ran like new still, very fun to drive car, reliable as hell too. With a leaking flex pipe, she still pegged the speedo in 4th gear, and 5th pulled nicely still.... VQ-K vs VE would be a nice race.
Originally Posted by BlackBIRDVQ
I read this whole battle of 3rd gen vs 4th gen- VE vs VQ yadie yadie yada.... but no one mentioned the VQ30DE-K, which has supperior top end power ( when the VIAS is working that is ). I owned a 3rd gen VG 5spd, 300K miles and she ran like new still, very fun to drive car, reliable as hell too. With a leaking flex pipe, she still pegged the speedo in 4th gear, and 5th pulled nicely still.... VQ-K vs VE would be a nice race.
The other wierd thing is the rev limiter, the VQ it feels like you slam into a brick wall, while with the VE it's just a simple "shift please".
From a stop, he pulls out faster, but it doesn't take long for me to reel him in and pass. On the highway from 60 I walk him.
I love the 5th gen's gauges though (SE that is) and the sunroof controls. It's a fun car and all, and I love to drive it but it's just not the same as the 3rd gen.
edit: I like the steering wheel and seats aswell
Once ya drive a fully decked out DE-K with headers, flywheel and all you will know what is up Flywheel really helps out top end power on any car. I know cause my SE-R felt like it had nasty cams at top end, and all I added to it was a JUN ultra light flywheel. Chances are if your dads 00 SE has more than 60K miles the VIAS is not working.
Flywheel really helps out top end power on any car. I know cause my SE-R felt like it had nasty cams at top end, and all I added to it was a JUN ultra light flywheel. Chances are if your dads 00 SE has more than 60K miles the VIAS is not working.
Neal great info......My Maximas I have had were all VGs and VQs I have test driven 2 VE 5spd, it is a great engine just as the cartest illustrates, not too impressive off the line but top end it pulls and pulls hard. If I could find a nice VE 5speed I would grab it in a heart beat.
Good info
Good info
Originally Posted by Nealoc187
If anyone cares, I did a cartest analysis of a 4th gen auto with I/Y/E, and a VE with I/Y/E, and it took me an hour so you dang well better enjoy it I used actual dynos, and input the HP and TQ at 500rpm intervals. Peak values were:
VE: 168hp @ 5750rpm and 171tq @ 3900rpm
VQ: 171hp @ 5200rpm and 180tq @ 4750rpm
simulation (albeit a darn good one if you ask me, this program rocks).
I used actual dynos, and input the HP and TQ at 500rpm intervals. Peak values were:VE: 168hp @ 5750rpm and 171tq @ 3900rpm
VQ: 171hp @ 5200rpm and 180tq @ 4750rpm
simulation (albeit a darn good one if you ask me, this program rocks).
Originally Posted by JTMAX03
I had a 4 gen and a 3.5 5 gen maxima and it nothin compare to the 3 gen top end. D-sta went 150 mph with me in the car I was surpise. D-sta has one of the best 3 gen out their.
5.5 gen just looks bad a$$ but thats just my opinion ..hey what about the 6th gen dosent that have independent rear suspension ???? whats the low down on that model ?? 
Not DAVEB the parts guy
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,549
No one can explain to me why the VE has such a superior "topend" when it's powerband falls off like an anvil at 5600-5700rpms whereas the VQs drops off at 5400-5500rpms. It's not that significant of a difference. I think people are confusing this massive "topend" with the lack of power below 3500rpms.
Stock 92 SE 5 speed:
Stock 95 SE 5 speed SE:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=174001
Don't pay attention to the numbers because these are two different dynos, but pay attention to the powerbands because the shape is normal for both the VE and VQ. The VE peaks at 5700rpms and the VQ peaks just after 5500rpms. Both motors are weezing as they approach their 6500 limiter with both motors loosing 16% power from their peak.
Now tell me, how and why does the VE posses such immense topend when the powerband doesn't support it? If the VE made power and held power to redline then I'd believe it, but all I'm seeing is a motor that makes peak power a whopping 150-200rpms higher and then it pukes and dies like the VQDE.
Stock 92 SE 5 speed:
Stock 95 SE 5 speed SE:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=174001
Don't pay attention to the numbers because these are two different dynos, but pay attention to the powerbands because the shape is normal for both the VE and VQ. The VE peaks at 5700rpms and the VQ peaks just after 5500rpms. Both motors are weezing as they approach their 6500 limiter with both motors loosing 16% power from their peak.
Now tell me, how and why does the VE posses such immense topend when the powerband doesn't support it? If the VE made power and held power to redline then I'd believe it, but all I'm seeing is a motor that makes peak power a whopping 150-200rpms higher and then it pukes and dies like the VQDE.