My Electrical Nightmare Continues...Pleae Help!
08-01-2006, 09:17 AM
#1
My Electrical Nightmare Continues...Pleae Help!
Sorry for the ranting title, but I'm about to set fire to my car. Here's the issue, I recently replaced a Can Am alternator which shorted out again (worst part ever bought) with a standard rebuilt one. Since I replaced it, my car won't charge. With the new alternator, I installed a new battery, battery fuse (which blew when the Can Am went), and the wiring harness that plugs into the alternator.
Everything seemed fine, but when I cranked it, the battery only read 11.8V indicating that the alternator was not charging and the battery and brake lights came on. I checked everything, and all seemed fine so I had the alternator replaced under warranty. I put this new one it, and same basic problem except the battery and brake lights no longer come on. However, it still only reads 11.8-11.9V at the battery while the car is charging. The rest of the car's electrical system works fine. Headlights, interior lights, climate control, turn signals, etc.
Fast forward to today, I took the day off work to troubleshoot the car and get it working since I have some people interested in buying it who want to take it for a drive. Check all the connections again, fuses, relays, etc. All seem fine so I decided to start it and check some more stuff. When I started it, I realized that my radio had no power. Then I noticed that the power windows no longer worked, nor did the blower fans, wipers, or power mirrors.
Headlights, interior lights, gauges, dash lights, and so on all worked. I proceeded to check all the fuses, and none of them are blown. I then noticed that all the items that don't work are a part of either the ACC circuit, or the ignition2 circuit.
Can someone please tell me what to check next? I've checked every fuse both in the engine bay, and interior panel. I think this problem is the cause of the alternator not turning on since the voltage regulator on the alternator is on the ignition circuit, and if that's not working then the alternator wouldn't turn on. I don't know why this problem is localized to the ACC circuit, and the ignition2 circuit. The stuff on the ignition circuit work fine.
When the Can Am alternator blew up, each time it took out the main 140 amp battery fuse. Basically, the two times it happened, I would floor the car, it would hit redline, and then the entire car would shutoff for a second and then power back up and keep running. That was when the battery fuse would blow. What I'm wondering is if the alternator shorting out could have fried something else in the system. I don't think that's it since after the first time it happened I had the Can Am replaced and everything worked fine. The second time it happened, I put a stock alternator in and now this.
Everything seemed fine, but when I cranked it, the battery only read 11.8V indicating that the alternator was not charging and the battery and brake lights came on. I checked everything, and all seemed fine so I had the alternator replaced under warranty. I put this new one it, and same basic problem except the battery and brake lights no longer come on. However, it still only reads 11.8-11.9V at the battery while the car is charging. The rest of the car's electrical system works fine. Headlights, interior lights, climate control, turn signals, etc.
Fast forward to today, I took the day off work to troubleshoot the car and get it working since I have some people interested in buying it who want to take it for a drive. Check all the connections again, fuses, relays, etc. All seem fine so I decided to start it and check some more stuff. When I started it, I realized that my radio had no power. Then I noticed that the power windows no longer worked, nor did the blower fans, wipers, or power mirrors.
Headlights, interior lights, gauges, dash lights, and so on all worked. I proceeded to check all the fuses, and none of them are blown. I then noticed that all the items that don't work are a part of either the ACC circuit, or the ignition2 circuit.
Can someone please tell me what to check next? I've checked every fuse both in the engine bay, and interior panel. I think this problem is the cause of the alternator not turning on since the voltage regulator on the alternator is on the ignition circuit, and if that's not working then the alternator wouldn't turn on. I don't know why this problem is localized to the ACC circuit, and the ignition2 circuit. The stuff on the ignition circuit work fine.
When the Can Am alternator blew up, each time it took out the main 140 amp battery fuse. Basically, the two times it happened, I would floor the car, it would hit redline, and then the entire car would shutoff for a second and then power back up and keep running. That was when the battery fuse would blow. What I'm wondering is if the alternator shorting out could have fried something else in the system. I don't think that's it since after the first time it happened I had the Can Am replaced and everything worked fine. The second time it happened, I put a stock alternator in and now this.
08-01-2006, 09:30 AM
#2
As sad as it is...I believe your conclusion may be right. You have tested and are certain that the alternator is not at fault. And we know the battery is good cause you can use it to start the car. Double check the wiring for the alternator. After which the next thing I would do is just replace the entire wiring harness. I know its a b!atch but at least you don't have to sit down and try to trouble shoot a harness.
NOW that I think about it......you said you checked all the fuses, pull the interior fuse panel and check the rear connections for fried wires. Use a light probe to check your connections...for the ACC related stuff...if you don't get them to light up, then you can isolate it to likely an engine harness..
NOW that I think about it......you said you checked all the fuses, pull the interior fuse panel and check the rear connections for fried wires. Use a light probe to check your connections...for the ACC related stuff...if you don't get them to light up, then you can isolate it to likely an engine harness..
08-01-2006, 09:38 AM
#3
By wiring harness, you're referring to the entire car's wiring harness?
I've checked the wiring for the alternator several times from the plug at the alternator all the way to the AltS fuse and it appears to be in good shape. I've also checked the alternator power wire (the large one) as well as all grounds and they appear to be fine.
I'll check the interior fuse panel shortly. I've just done a simple test with a multimeter so far on the fuses for the wipers and all the stuff that didn't work, and it just showed 0 current flowing through the connection which is obviously the case if the part isn't working.
Thanks for the advice.
I've checked the wiring for the alternator several times from the plug at the alternator all the way to the AltS fuse and it appears to be in good shape. I've also checked the alternator power wire (the large one) as well as all grounds and they appear to be fine.
I'll check the interior fuse panel shortly. I've just done a simple test with a multimeter so far on the fuses for the wipers and all the stuff that didn't work, and it just showed 0 current flowing through the connection which is obviously the case if the part isn't working.
Thanks for the advice.
Originally Posted by nupe500
As sad as it is...I believe your conclusion may be right. You have tested and are certain that the alternator is not at fault. And we know the battery is good cause you can use it to start the car. Double check the wiring for the alternator. After which the next thing I would do is just replace the entire wiring harness. I know its a b!atch but at least you don't have to sit down and try to trouble shoot a harness.
NOW that I think about it......you said you checked all the fuses, pull the interior fuse panel and check the rear connections for fried wires. Use a light probe to check your connections...for the ACC related stuff...if you don't get them to light up, then you can isolate it to likely an engine harness..
NOW that I think about it......you said you checked all the fuses, pull the interior fuse panel and check the rear connections for fried wires. Use a light probe to check your connections...for the ACC related stuff...if you don't get them to light up, then you can isolate it to likely an engine harness..
08-01-2006, 10:03 AM
#4
I was referring to the entire wiring harness...another thing you might want to think about doing is see if you can power the wiper and other stuff not working from another panel...that will help in isolating the problem. I am thinking the problem is in the engine bay itself, and you can also double check the wiring behind the panels in the engine bay. If any of those go...you're hosed....keep us updated.
Best of luck
Best of luck
08-01-2006, 10:33 AM
#5
Ok stop!!!, you are blowing fuses all over the place, do not turn the car on anymore, and check for shorts and polarities make sure everything is connected the way its supposed to. it may take you the whole weekend to find the problem but thats usual with electrical problems,
ok try disconnecting the alternator from the battery and start the car
(i know i just told not to but this is a quick test) and measure the voltage coming from it. it should be above 14v. if not thats ONE, problem, after that you are on your own
good luck.
ok try disconnecting the alternator from the battery and start the car
(i know i just told not to but this is a quick test) and measure the voltage coming from it. it should be above 14v. if not thats ONE, problem, after that you are on your own good luck.
08-01-2006, 10:40 AM
#6
Yeah, I was about to power the alternator from another source to see if it was the voltage regulator itself, or the wiring. Before I could though, I found out about this new problem. So I'm going to have to start with each problem.
How would I check the wiring to the fuseboxes and relay boxes? I've done a visual inspection of each box and all the wiring goes where it's supposed to with no visible damage, no loose wires, nothing. I've looked for melted wiring and can't find any anywhere.
How would I check the wiring to the fuseboxes and relay boxes? I've done a visual inspection of each box and all the wiring goes where it's supposed to with no visible damage, no loose wires, nothing. I've looked for melted wiring and can't find any anywhere.
Originally Posted by nupe500
I was referring to the entire wiring harness...another thing you might want to think about doing is see if you can power the wiper and other stuff not working from another panel...that will help in isolating the problem. I am thinking the problem is in the engine bay itself, and you can also double check the wiring behind the panels in the engine bay. If any of those go...you're hosed....keep us updated.
Best of luck
Best of luck
08-01-2006, 10:45 AM
#7
That's the thing, not a single fuse is blown. If fuses were blowing, it would be a lot easier to locate the problem. Everything is connected the way it's supposed to be, nothing was changed. I'm just worried that the Can Am blowing up shorted something else out.
I've already pulled the positive cable off the battery while the car is running, and it dies immediately. I've also checked the AltS fuse for current, and it's reading 0, when it should read about 3 amps when the ignition is on. If the AltS circuit is at 0, then the alternator simply isn't getting signal and not turning on.
Is there a relay for the IGN2 and ACC circuits? I checked the relay boxes in the engine, but not of them appear to be what I'm looking for. Other than the fusebox on the interior, the fusebox in the engine, and the 2 relay boxes in the engine, where else can I find relays/fuses?
I've already pulled the positive cable off the battery while the car is running, and it dies immediately. I've also checked the AltS fuse for current, and it's reading 0, when it should read about 3 amps when the ignition is on. If the AltS circuit is at 0, then the alternator simply isn't getting signal and not turning on.
Is there a relay for the IGN2 and ACC circuits? I checked the relay boxes in the engine, but not of them appear to be what I'm looking for. Other than the fusebox on the interior, the fusebox in the engine, and the 2 relay boxes in the engine, where else can I find relays/fuses?
Originally Posted by MAX2DAMAX
Ok stop!!!, you are blowing fuses all over the place, do not turn the car on anymore, and check for shorts and polarities make sure everything is connected the way its supposed to. it may take you the whole weekend to find the problem but thats usual with electrical problems,
ok try disconnecting the alternator from the battery and start the car (i know i just told not to but this is a quick test) and measure the voltage coming from it. it should be above 14v. if not thats ONE, problem, after that you are on your own good luck.
ok try disconnecting the alternator from the battery and start the car
(i know i just told not to but this is a quick test) and measure the voltage coming from it. it should be above 14v. if not thats ONE, problem, after that you are on your own good luck.
08-01-2006, 12:10 PM
#9
so I'm doing some checking in the FSM, and your problem may be the ignition swtich itself. In looking at the schematic the common point is the ignition switch. I will continue to search but that might be the problem there.
08-01-2006, 01:51 PM
#11
Thanks for all your help.
Originally Posted by nupe500
so I'm doing some checking in the FSM, and your problem may be the ignition swtich itself. In looking at the schematic the common point is the ignition switch. I will continue to search but that might be the problem there.
08-01-2006, 08:32 PM
#13
Spelled with a I not a L for Iilac. Prounced Ii-eee-ack.
iTrader: (65)
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Central Valley, California
Posts: 2,438
Did you check the ELEC fuse that is in the top right hand corner? My radio, keyless entry and etc. was not working and I checked the ELEC fuse and it wasn't blown but I put it back in and everything started to work again. Hope this helps.
08-02-2006, 06:54 PM
#15
Not yet, I'll look into that tomorrow.
And nupe, no updates yet. I'm still talking to several friends who own shops right now. The problem is that I work so much I never have time to work on the car. It's hard to find an hour every two weeks I can just look at it. I'm thinking about just having it towed to a shop and have them deal with it.
And nupe, no updates yet. I'm still talking to several friends who own shops right now. The problem is that I work so much I never have time to work on the car. It's hard to find an hour every two weeks I can just look at it. I'm thinking about just having it towed to a shop and have them deal with it.
Originally Posted by Iilac
Did you check the ELEC fuse that is in the top right hand corner? My radio, keyless entry and etc. was not working and I checked the ELEC fuse and it wasn't blown but I put it back in and everything started to work again. Hope this helps.
08-03-2006, 06:36 AM
#16
This might sound like a dumb question, but on the alternator where the positive is connected (the post), do you have the plastic insulator between the alternator and the actual bracket itself? I doubt this is the problem, and I think it's your ignition switch, but it's worth a shot.
08-03-2006, 06:54 PM
#18
Yes, the plastic insulator is there. After having my Can Am ground out like that once, I double check now. Thanks for the tip though.
Originally Posted by GoalieKeg
This might sound like a dumb question, but on the alternator where the positive is connected (the post), do you have the plastic insulator between the alternator and the actual bracket itself? I doubt this is the problem, and I think it's your ignition switch, but it's worth a shot.
08-03-2006, 07:36 PM
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 168
Shadow, Check the relays for operation by having someone turn on the ignition switch for you to the run position, while you listen, and feel the relays. You may have a bad plug on the ACC relay, or a bad ground from the relays. I had a similar problem, and a new relay cured the problem!
Good luck, Earl
Good luck, Earl
08-03-2006, 08:08 PM
#20
I will look into that immediately. What should I be checking or feeling for?
I know that shortly before this happened, my car was making a funny buzzing sound (not really buzzing but very hard to describe). Pretty much I would switch the key to on, then when I was checking wiring, the noise would start. I would shut it down and then try again. About 1 minute into it, it would do it again. So I pulled the battery and left it for the day. Next time I try to check wiring, I don't hear the sound anymore, but all this stuff happens. I wonder if that was something going bad. I'm so used to my car making funny sounds that I don't pay attention anymore.
I know that shortly before this happened, my car was making a funny buzzing sound (not really buzzing but very hard to describe). Pretty much I would switch the key to on, then when I was checking wiring, the noise would start. I would shut it down and then try again. About 1 minute into it, it would do it again. So I pulled the battery and left it for the day. Next time I try to check wiring, I don't hear the sound anymore, but all this stuff happens. I wonder if that was something going bad. I'm so used to my car making funny sounds that I don't pay attention anymore.
Originally Posted by E-CARP
Shadow, Check the relays for operation by having someone turn on the ignition switch for you to the run position, while you listen, and feel the relays. You may have a bad plug on the ACC relay, or a bad ground from the relays. I had a similar problem, and a new relay cured the problem!
Good luck, Earl
Good luck, Earl
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