It's on baby....Vtec race???Oh my....
08-07-2001, 07:29 AM
#41
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Re: Re: Re: STEVTEC
Originally posted by Mustang1999
Not trying to flame here, but that statement is odd since Shing swapped a B16A into his CRX and that is his daily driver. When I drove it, it was fine, plenty of power both up top and down low.. and you don't have to kill the engine to make horsepower.
Not trying to flame here, but that statement is odd since Shing swapped a B16A into his CRX and that is his daily driver. When I drove it, it was fine, plenty of power both up top and down low.. and you don't have to kill the engine to make horsepower.
08-07-2001, 07:32 AM
#42
Re: Re: Re: STEVTEC
Originally posted by Mustang1999
Not trying to flame here, but that statement is odd since Shing swapped a B16A into his CRX and that is his daily driver. When I drove it, it was fine, plenty of power both up top and down low.. and you don't have to kill the engine to make horsepower.
Not trying to flame here, but that statement is odd since Shing swapped a B16A into his CRX and that is his daily driver. When I drove it, it was fine, plenty of power both up top and down low.. and you don't have to kill the engine to make horsepower.
The premise of these comparisons are weird to say the least. Any 4-banger Honda motor vs. a VQ30DE is just a stupid comparison. They were each made for very distinct purposes. So are the F20C and B22 motors.....
Nissan's got a great motor doing things one way (U.S. only), Honda has several variances of an engine design approach doing it another way, some with better low-end (V6 Accord/TL/CL), some with better high-end (Type R, Stook etc).
I'm not a Honda lover, but I respect both makers for what they can do with a motor......why people can't be pleased with that and move on is beyond me.
08-07-2001, 08:57 AM
#43
Shumax. Why do you say most people don't rev their engines? I rev over 4k everyday, all day. You don't? Just becuase you don't drive like an enthusist, doesn't mean everyone else doesn't.
You don't understand. Honda VTEC engines rev so fast, it doesn't take alot of time for it to get over 4k. It's a different type of driving yes, but the pulling power just goes on and on.
Maybe you should drive a big-ole' diesel truck. That way do you have to rev over 3k
You don't understand. Honda VTEC engines rev so fast, it doesn't take alot of time for it to get over 4k. It's a different type of driving yes, but the pulling power just goes on and on.
Maybe you should drive a big-ole' diesel truck. That way do you have to rev over 3k
08-07-2001, 09:08 AM
#44
Originally posted by Jeff92se
Maybe you should drive a big-ole' diesel truck. That way do you have to rev over 3k
Maybe you should drive a big-ole' diesel truck. That way do you have to rev over 3k
I got the VG30E up to 3.5k yesterday.
I rarely go over 3k in my 94 or the 99, but spend much time going 4 or 5k in my dad's TL......
It's just a different driving style.
08-07-2001, 11:34 AM
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,915
Re: Shingles
I'm with you on this SHUMAX. The majority of Maxima.org members utilitze the upper RPM range, but a vast majority of the general population do not. In my area that are quite a few Beemers. Most of them are not driven to their abilities. People buy for HP, but enjoy torque. To me, torque is more enjoyable. I'm jealous of the the 3.5 VQ with 246 ft lbs. of torque. And the HP to go with it!
Originally posted by shumax
Outside of this or any other car performance club, I think you are the minority in your opinion of how OFTEN people drive above 5200rpm. There are FAR more people out there who never see about 4,000rpm in there car.
I agree, the S2k is a fine machine and a blast to drive---sounds like a big crotch-rocket, however I will say it again---"most people don't drive at 5200+rpm.
SHUMAx
Outside of this or any other car performance club, I think you are the minority in your opinion of how OFTEN people drive above 5200rpm. There are FAR more people out there who never see about 4,000rpm in there car.
I agree, the S2k is a fine machine and a blast to drive---sounds like a big crotch-rocket, however I will say it again---"most people don't drive at 5200+rpm.
SHUMAx
08-08-2001, 06:53 AM
#47
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Posts: n/a
Vtec is great but need to be pushed!
I agree with people saying that VTEC is great , cause I used to love mind! but the all need to be pushed...My dad have a Acura CL 3.0 with the V6 3 Liter 200HP it's great but you need to push it over 4500RPM (up to 6750RPM)otherwise you don't enjoy it like you should! Both are great but really differente like somebody else said! Honda always need to be Rev (I had 4 Honda-Acura in my life) If you go for Nissan, you don't need to push it that hard to get something out of it...it's a different way of driving!
Honda need to be drive like a Race car! But it like it that way it's bullet proof for that (or almost cause I blow my first Integra engine at 115 K Mile on it)
For a daily driven car I would choose go for the low end torque of a Nissan and for a Race car I would go for the High end of a Honda VTEC like a Type R!
Honda need to be drive like a Race car! But it like it that way it's bullet proof for that (or almost cause I blow my first Integra engine at 115 K Mile on it)
For a daily driven car I would choose go for the low end torque of a Nissan and for a Race car I would go for the High end of a Honda VTEC like a Type R!
08-09-2001, 01:05 PM
#50
Dyno plot says I have the most area under the Administrator curve
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 7,060
some misconceptions about VTEC
You don't need to rev a VTEC engine high to make power just because it's a VTEC engine, but rather because the engine is SMALLER to begin with.
Smaller engines make less torque (and power) to begin with, and what VTEC does is extend the operating range of the engine so that it can still make the torque that it does at lower RPM's all the way up at high RPM's. This is how a tiny 2.0L engine like in the S2000 with only 153 lb-ft of torque can make 240HP - because VTEC allows it to maintain that torque output all the way up to its power peak at 8300rpm.
And look at all of Honda's other typical VTEC engines: the 1.8L engine in the Integra, 1.6L in the Civic Si, 2.2L in the Prelude - all small 4-cylinder engines. You don't need to rev them like mad to make power just because they have VTEC, but rather because they're small in the first place.
As for Honda/Acura's newer V6 engines - these aren't traditional Honda engines. They have similar displacement (3.0L or greater) to other manufacturers and no, you don't need to rev them to make a lot of power. The J30A1 3.0L SOHC VTEC V6 in my Accord makes PLENTY of power down low and you don't even need to hit VTEC (3500rpm) to get decent power. What VTEC does on this engine is allow it to still make 200HP while not needing other things like a more complex DOHC head, higher compression, or premium fuel.
==============================
Think of engines as air pumps. The more air you pump, the more horsepower you're going to have. And to get the same amount of power you can either spin a larger engine at a slower speed, or spin a smaller engine at a faster speed.
Honda prefers the smaller engine faster method because of greater flexibility. You can gear it tall and spin it nice and slow on the highway for great gas mileage, but also downshift a gear and rev it up to 8000rpm and get as much power as a much much larger engine.
With a larger engine you don't need to spin it as fast, but when you're just cruising around you lose efficiency - and this is why Honda sticks with smaller engines.
===============================
So yes, you do need to rev Honda engines (not the V6's though) to make power, but it's because they're small, and not because they have VTEC. VTEC is what gives the engines the flexibility they need to operate efficiently and still make high amounts of torque (for their small engine size) from idle up to over 7000rpm. At these RPM's most engines without VTEC or some sort of variable induction system would choke and die, thus reducing flexibility and the operational range of the engine.
An engine may be able to spin up to 8000rpm, but if its intake system becomes a bottleneck at 6000rpm then you lose 2000rpm of potential on the engine. VTEC merely extends that operational range.
Horsepower = (Torque x RPM) / 5252
As you can see, the longer you can maintain the peak torque on an engine at higher and higher RPM's, the more horsepower you're going to have.
So VTEC is what helps the tiny little F20C 2.0L DOHC VTEC 4-cyl in the S2000 make 240HP with only 153 lb-ft of torque - because VTEC helps the engine maintain peak torque all the way up to 7600rpm or so, and then make peak power at 8300rpm.
Smaller engines make less torque (and power) to begin with, and what VTEC does is extend the operating range of the engine so that it can still make the torque that it does at lower RPM's all the way up at high RPM's. This is how a tiny 2.0L engine like in the S2000 with only 153 lb-ft of torque can make 240HP - because VTEC allows it to maintain that torque output all the way up to its power peak at 8300rpm.
And look at all of Honda's other typical VTEC engines: the 1.8L engine in the Integra, 1.6L in the Civic Si, 2.2L in the Prelude - all small 4-cylinder engines. You don't need to rev them like mad to make power just because they have VTEC, but rather because they're small in the first place.
As for Honda/Acura's newer V6 engines - these aren't traditional Honda engines. They have similar displacement (3.0L or greater) to other manufacturers and no, you don't need to rev them to make a lot of power. The J30A1 3.0L SOHC VTEC V6 in my Accord makes PLENTY of power down low and you don't even need to hit VTEC (3500rpm) to get decent power. What VTEC does on this engine is allow it to still make 200HP while not needing other things like a more complex DOHC head, higher compression, or premium fuel.
==============================
Think of engines as air pumps. The more air you pump, the more horsepower you're going to have. And to get the same amount of power you can either spin a larger engine at a slower speed, or spin a smaller engine at a faster speed.
Honda prefers the smaller engine faster method because of greater flexibility. You can gear it tall and spin it nice and slow on the highway for great gas mileage, but also downshift a gear and rev it up to 8000rpm and get as much power as a much much larger engine.
With a larger engine you don't need to spin it as fast, but when you're just cruising around you lose efficiency - and this is why Honda sticks with smaller engines.
===============================
So yes, you do need to rev Honda engines (not the V6's though) to make power, but it's because they're small, and not because they have VTEC. VTEC is what gives the engines the flexibility they need to operate efficiently and still make high amounts of torque (for their small engine size) from idle up to over 7000rpm. At these RPM's most engines without VTEC or some sort of variable induction system would choke and die, thus reducing flexibility and the operational range of the engine.
An engine may be able to spin up to 8000rpm, but if its intake system becomes a bottleneck at 6000rpm then you lose 2000rpm of potential on the engine. VTEC merely extends that operational range.
Horsepower = (Torque x RPM) / 5252
As you can see, the longer you can maintain the peak torque on an engine at higher and higher RPM's, the more horsepower you're going to have.
So VTEC is what helps the tiny little F20C 2.0L DOHC VTEC 4-cyl in the S2000 make 240HP with only 153 lb-ft of torque - because VTEC helps the engine maintain peak torque all the way up to 7600rpm or so, and then make peak power at 8300rpm.
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