Chinkzilla

And no I don't mean gatorade

Ok here's the deal.

I've got a brand new motor 3800 miles now
I drive very hard
I participate in road race events typically 4 20 minute sessions/day
I change my oil either shortly before or shortly after each event
I sometimes take it to the 1/4 track
It never gets below 50 degrees here (SoCal)
I only drive 2 miles to work and back

So basically besides the temperature I'd say my engine is under considerable stress most of the time. I want only the best protection for my motor and I think the time has come to make the switch to synthetic. Now here's the question: Can I run race synthetic in my engine on a daily basis? Are there any adverse effects to running say redline 10w-30 racing poly-ester oil in my engine for a prolonged period? (3000 miles). Is this too heavy for my engine? I know that most people are running 5w-30. Or, if I were to go with amsoil, which grade would be ideal for me?

I've done my research but it seems the main concern with most people is durability and extended drain intervals. My main concern is protection under high load.

Secondly, I was on myoilshop.com and looking at gear oils. I'm not sure if MT-90 is a full synthetic. I was looking at the synthetic 75w-90 and the "shock-proof" 75w-90 poly-ester based gear oil. From what I hear, esters are very good because they provide a temporary "plating" that adheres to metal parts until direct contact or shock occurs, sort of a bullet-proof vest for your tranny/motor internals.

Opinions, critiques, flames, ideas. Thanks

sorry so long

adc100

You can't use Redline Racing Oil on a daily basis. It has no detergents. This would lead to engine deterioration due to buildup of combustion products, soot,solids and other products. I would consider the Mobil 1 15W-50. The new Supersyn now has moly in it for extra wear protection plus higher levels on zinc. Now the Redline Racing oil "may" be slightly better but then you would be oblidged (in my opinion) to use the non racing version for street use. I say that bc I would not want to switch back and forth from Redline which is an ester base to other things. You are looking at possible seal leakage here.

If you go with the 15-50 Mobil 1 I would take an oil analysis after race event to verify that its OK for continued use. I can't imagine that it would need to be drained. Mobil 1 15W-50 is used by some Indy vehicles and also Super Stocks and manages to make it through 500 miles at 14K rpm. Engines have been torn down and deemed fit to go another 500 miles without rebuild. I doubt if your Max sees that .

btw, I'm new here. I check out this board periodically bc people here appear to be quite knowledgeable with their vehicles and I may one day consider the max. I am a retired engineer. I am somewhat knowledgeable on lubricants-especially synthetics. I run Mobil 1 10W-30 in my 2 vehicles and in my extended familiess' 4 vehicles. I drive an 01 Sentra SE with the 2L engine. I have used it for 10 years. I used to sell Amsoil products. I feel theyare also quite good. I am somewhat of a Nissan fan. I feel they probably make some of the most durable engines available. Hope to contribute here and also receive good information.

Al

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

I would use Redline non-racing oil. It's more focused/oriented towards race use than Amsoil or Mobil 1. My limited understand of consistently racing vehicles points to a need for a higher overall viscosity as well so your oil won't break down as fast.


As far as drain intervals, I would seriously consider getting your oil analyzed at every change through Blackstone. I would start at 3k intervals and go from there.


More importantly, the filter you use is just as important if not more so. My suggestions are the Mobil 1 M1-110 filter and the Amsoil SDF-36. The SDF-36 filter is a "doublesize" application for the VQ engines.

Frank Fontaine

Sounds like you'd be willing to change the oil very often since you've only got 3k. So I'd use whatever is on sale. Just don't go for the no-name brand since you'd only save about 0.30/quart. Any name brand 5W30 will do the trick. I prefer Kandall but it's not the cheapest.

iwannabmw

iTrader: (3)

Do NOT use Redline racing oil. Do NOT use Mobil 1 15W-50. If you want Redline, use the "street" version instead, like Bill mentioned. 10W-30 from any oil brand (yes, even Mobil) is okay for your engine and will not hurt it. For your short trips, 5W-30 would be better, but since you mentioned you wanted the best high load protection, 10W-30 is the best choice. Redline is way above the capability of Mobil's new SuperSyn. A close second for what your priorities are is Amsoil, followed by Mobil. It's unnecessary to have the oil analyzed after each road race unless you want the extra piece of mind. Like I've mentioned in other posts, I've used both Amsoil and Mobil 1 5W-30 under these conditions and they both hold up fine, though the Mobil does show signs of being stressed. I left it in for 8K miles though, more than it sounds like you'll do so it shouldn't be a big issue.

For gear oil, as far as Redline is concerned, the MT-90 is the best choice. The 75W-90 and "shock proof" gear oils are slanted more towards rear ends than transmissions, at least as far as "street" cars are concerned.

Bill - Have you used the SDF 36? I know Amsoil only lists the SDF-13, so I've been hesitant to to recommend the SDF 36 since I didn't have any personal experience with it.

Chinkzilla

bill- Thanks for the insight, I will send a sample in after my next event. BTW I used a OEM nissan filter when I last changed.

adc100- You sound quite knowledgable, but I believe 15w-50 is a bit thick for a motor that recommends 5w-30 to 10w-30. BTW could you elaborate on that seal leakage issue?

iwannabmw-Yeah, I figured 15w-50 would be a bit thick for my uses
10w-30 sounds right, better protection, and the climate is right here..

I think I will try the redline high performance motor oil, but since i've heard good things about amsoil, would give it a try as well, when I look on their site all I see is a bunch of numbers and letters, care to decrypt all that for me and tell me what grade I should use?

MT-90 is it synthetic? I am worried about grinding a gear at high rpm and particulates circulating my tranny internals. For instance, 90 degree weather, sustained rpm of 4500-7000 rpms for 20 minutes, basically everything gets pretty damned hot and is going pretty damned fast.

Frank- Yes, I am willing to change quite often. NO I AM NOT WILLING TO USE WHATEVER IS ON SALE.

Chinkzilla

btw has anyone ever tried motul lubricants? seems like good stuff.

adc100

It probably is for street use-I was just looking at the racing application. Esters swell seals and PAO's (The main ingredient for Amsoil, Mobil 1) shrink them. Thats why Both Mobil ane Amsoil have Esters to balance. I really don't know what Redline uses to equalize seal growth/shrinkage. So my only concern is switching back and forth. Sounds like for you the Redline would be good. BTW I have never heard of switching back and forth beomg a problem. Its just that I wouldn't do it. Oh another choice could be Delvac 1 5W-40. Its a fully synthetic PAO made by Mobil 1 for diesels. I am probably going to switch to it with my next change. It has .15% (1500 ppm) zinc and is OK for Gas engines.

Al

iwannabmw

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, the corporate website is not exactly the most user friendly, they should be overhauling it soon. The motor oil you would be interested in would be the ATM according to their system. The ATm is the 10W-30 synthetic motor oil. The numbers or letters following the dash indicates the size of the container. ATM-QT is the 10W-30 in qt. bottles while ATM-01 is the case of 12 quarts. Their system can be a bit overwhelming until you get used to it.

I've been offering wholesale pricing to org members for a while and I can have Amsoil drop ship the products to you, so you won't have to deal with their ordering system. I'll email or PM the prices to you.

As for the seal issue, that really shouldn't apply to your vehicle, but here's Amsoil's comments on that:

AMSOIL lubricants are all tested for seal compatibility with all the seal materials in use with industry accepted testing methods. AMSOIL Products will not damage seals or be more prone to leaking than petroleum products when used in vehicles with undamaged seals. Unfortunately, high mileage vehicles and equipment that have been using petroleum lubricants for long periods of time face the risk that sludge and deposits have built up in the engine and created a false seal, and the seal itself has dried out and cracked or shrunk. Lubricants help condition seals, keeping them supple and slightly swelled to insure a proper seal with no leaks. When covered with sludge or deposits, the seal will deteriorate. Now you start using AMSOIL motor oil with it’s high quality additive package and natural detergency, and you start to clean up the engine. The false seal is cleaned away, and if the seal itself has become cracked or damaged, a leak will develop. The same thing occurs in transmissions and differentials. Because of this, many people think that synthetic oil is more prone to leaking, when all it really is doing is revealing the problem that petroleum oil deposits had created and kept hidden. Once the damaged seals are properly replaced, keep using the synthetic oil and they won’t leak again.

Chinkzilla

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

it's all becoming so much clearer

iwannabmw, could you go ahead and pm or e-mail me those quote? I think I might go ahead and give my fellow .org member the business and give amsoil a shot. I'm not exactly racing every day and amsoil seems like a good compromise.

when I make the switch from dino, do I need to do a complete drain/filter change (flush?). 3800 on the odo so far.. 1 oil change with valvoline all-climate 5w-30 and nissan oem filter. 1 road course on this oil change. Lots of stop and go driving, always observe a warm up however.

Hehe, I think this thread would be quite educational to the newbie lube enthusiast, and the SUPER paranoid, like me

iwannabmw

iTrader: (3)

When you change over, just drain the oil like normal, change the filter, and refill. There is no need for any chemicals to flush the system or anything like that. Amsoil and Mobil filters are the best, but Nissan has excellent one's as well, there's no problem with continuing to use Nissan's if you'd like, just change the one you have, or you won't be able to get all the dino oil out of the system.

I sent the prices to you via PM.

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

Careful......I'll hold you to that one. Be prepared for constant "newbie" e-mails saying "why haven't you sent in your sample yet"........

Chinkzilla

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Bill and iwannabmw have already answered your questions, but if you go with Redline go with the 10W-40 for a little more protection under high loads and rpms. The 10W-30 synthetic is MORE than enough protection though.

Not sure what the 2K2 Owners' manual recommends, but my 2001 Manual:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
1)Prefers 5W-30 for ALL climates(-20F-100+F)
2)Recommends 10W-30 or 10W-40 for climates above zero(0F-100+F)

1) and 2) are for regular oils, so synthetics ESPECIALLY Redline, Amsoil, and even Mobile 1 will be far GREATER protection. However, a Redline "street" synthetic 10W-40 will provide the MAXIMUM protection under your harsh driving conditions. You just need to decide if your going to always stick with Redline and pay $6.30/qt+shipping = ~$7/qt, if not, just go with the Amsoil. I doubt the difference between the two will EVER be noticed unless you drive your car till it falls apart and even then you'll probably never know the difference.

Yes, I'm that **** and I'm switching to Redline.