Vortech V1 SuperChargers and rebuild
07-08-2002, 09:08 AM
#121
A N/A car with intake and exhaust should yield a 10WHP gain (at least from Ypipe). Thus, a car with more exhaust pressure (aka a boosted car) should yield higher gains from a Y-Pipe. I'd be willing to bet if I put my stock y-pipe back on I would lost 15-20 WHP.
07-08-2002, 09:32 AM
#122
Originally posted by iansw
You need to get a Y-Pipe and Dyno, BlackCat. Then I'll have someone fairly equal with a stock pulley to compare to.
IanS
You need to get a Y-Pipe and Dyno, BlackCat. Then I'll have someone fairly equal with a stock pulley to compare to.
IanS
I'll have to arrange for a dyno this summer. There is a local speed shop that has two kinds of dyno: one w/o tuning and one with. Which should I go for?
07-08-2002, 09:59 AM
#123
Originally posted by BlackCat
After seeing AdMax's Max with the Budget Y-pipe yesterday I dig that exhaust rumble. Mind you he has a Flowmaster muffler as well.
I'll have to arrange for a dyno this summer. There is a local speed shop that has two kinds of dyno: one w/o tuning and one with. Which should I go for?
After seeing AdMax's Max with the Budget Y-pipe yesterday I dig that exhaust rumble. Mind you he has a Flowmaster muffler as well.
I'll have to arrange for a dyno this summer. There is a local speed shop that has two kinds of dyno: one w/o tuning and one with. Which should I go for?
07-08-2002, 10:34 AM
#124
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Ian..
If you want to know the scoop with Vortech you should have PM'd me.
First off... a minor rebuild will run you 3-400 bux. It will NOT make the car any quieter as they do not replace all of the bearings and impellers for that price.
A major rebuild will run you 800+ and they will maintain they same V1 impeller, so it will still be loud, maybe not as loud as your current setup. But loud nonetheless.
It seems like you want to do what I did. Trade your V1 in for a V2 through Vortech. If they give you the full 1k credit you will be left to pay about 850 bux for a NEW blower, with warranty from Vortech.
In order to get the full 1k credit. The casing has to be in GOOD shape and the pulley shaft has to be able to spin by hand, they DO NOT open the blower casing to inspect it.
I would suggest you call them, set up for the trade in, and DO NOT tell them anything is wrong with your existing blower, just tell them you do not like the sound and you bought it used, etc. If Loren would like to help fund it then it could work out OK for you guys. I am almost sure that if you cleaned it up and stuff you would get the full credit.
Rebuild is just not worth it IMHO, I went the trade in route, had lots of issues with Vortech, but they seem to have been fixed at this point, all in all I am much happier cause the annoyance of my V1 is gone and replaced by a nice and quiet V2. You will never realize how much of a difference there is until you are side by side. It took me meeting a V2 owner to finally push me over the edge to do the swap.
If you have anymore questions about the Vortech process gimme a shout.
Also, if your missing 3PSI of boost I would be curious as to where you have concentrated your troubleshooting. If you are only seeing 6 PSI at the guage, concentrate your searching from the guage forward. I dunno where you have the guage T'd in, but don't bother looking at anything past the guage, as the issue has to be before the guage is picking up a reading.
And Ian, I understand totally what you are saying, I too think something is wrong, I don't think BrianV is looking at the situation correctly. You definitely have an issue that needs to be found. Your HP is definitely low for what you should be getting. Good Luck, lemme know if I can help.
-Del
If you want to know the scoop with Vortech you should have PM'd me.
First off... a minor rebuild will run you 3-400 bux. It will NOT make the car any quieter as they do not replace all of the bearings and impellers for that price.
A major rebuild will run you 800+ and they will maintain they same V1 impeller, so it will still be loud, maybe not as loud as your current setup. But loud nonetheless.
It seems like you want to do what I did. Trade your V1 in for a V2 through Vortech. If they give you the full 1k credit you will be left to pay about 850 bux for a NEW blower, with warranty from Vortech.
In order to get the full 1k credit. The casing has to be in GOOD shape and the pulley shaft has to be able to spin by hand, they DO NOT open the blower casing to inspect it.
I would suggest you call them, set up for the trade in, and DO NOT tell them anything is wrong with your existing blower, just tell them you do not like the sound and you bought it used, etc. If Loren would like to help fund it then it could work out OK for you guys. I am almost sure that if you cleaned it up and stuff you would get the full credit.
Rebuild is just not worth it IMHO, I went the trade in route, had lots of issues with Vortech, but they seem to have been fixed at this point, all in all I am much happier cause the annoyance of my V1 is gone and replaced by a nice and quiet V2. You will never realize how much of a difference there is until you are side by side. It took me meeting a V2 owner to finally push me over the edge to do the swap.
If you have anymore questions about the Vortech process gimme a shout.
Also, if your missing 3PSI of boost I would be curious as to where you have concentrated your troubleshooting. If you are only seeing 6 PSI at the guage, concentrate your searching from the guage forward. I dunno where you have the guage T'd in, but don't bother looking at anything past the guage, as the issue has to be before the guage is picking up a reading.
And Ian, I understand totally what you are saying, I too think something is wrong, I don't think BrianV is looking at the situation correctly. You definitely have an issue that needs to be found. Your HP is definitely low for what you should be getting. Good Luck, lemme know if I can help.
-Del
07-08-2002, 10:41 AM
#125
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Originally posted by delio
Ian..
If you want to know the scoop with Vortech you should have PM'd me.
First off... a minor rebuild will run you 3-400 bux. It will NOT make the car any quieter as they do not replace all of the bearings and impellers for that price.
A major rebuild will run you 800+ and they will maintain they same V1 impeller, so it will still be loud, maybe not as loud as your current setup. But loud nonetheless.
-Del
Ian..
If you want to know the scoop with Vortech you should have PM'd me.
First off... a minor rebuild will run you 3-400 bux. It will NOT make the car any quieter as they do not replace all of the bearings and impellers for that price.
A major rebuild will run you 800+ and they will maintain they same V1 impeller, so it will still be loud, maybe not as loud as your current setup. But loud nonetheless.
-Del
I have the Gauge plugged into the exact same place Loren did. He sent me the vacuum lines, and labeled where everything should go.
I have tried plugging the gauge directly into the manifold, and got the same results.
I also have had 3 or 4 techs try and find a leak, 1 of those on the Dyno, under full boost. No leaks can be found. Also, compression tests have been done on my engine, everything has been sealed with gasket seal (MAF, Ambient Sensor, TB Plate, MEVI) on top of the gaskets that are there stock.
I'm going to try one last test, and that is spraying carburator (sp?) cleaner around and seeing if the engine idles differently when spraying anywhere. if so, I've found a leak. One tech already said he did this, but I want to do it myself just to be sure. I've been told this is a good way to find even pinhole leaks.
For $850, it's going to take me about 6 months of paying off my CC to get there, but it sounds like it will be worth it in the long run.
Thanks!
IanS
07-08-2002, 10:58 AM
#126
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Hmmm.
According to Vortech, their new V2 units are about $1700, and the credit they give for a "Class A Condition" V1 is $750.
So it would be $950+ for a swap!
IanS
According to Vortech, their new V2 units are about $1700, and the credit they give for a "Class A Condition" V1 is $750.
So it would be $950+ for a swap!
IanS
07-08-2002, 10:59 AM
#127
Originally posted by BrianV
There isn't much a shop can do to tune your car without real expensive equipment. Most of those shops sell a with tuning package for stuff like AFC and Adjustable Cam Sprockets. Our cars however really can't be tweaked with, you would need to be able to access and re-write aspects of the ECU.
There isn't much a shop can do to tune your car without real expensive equipment. Most of those shops sell a with tuning package for stuff like AFC and Adjustable Cam Sprockets. Our cars however really can't be tweaked with, you would need to be able to access and re-write aspects of the ECU.
07-08-2002, 11:40 AM
#129
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Originally posted by Cumalot
Wow, all these problems Ian, sorry to hear. You must regret buying the SC now huh?
Wow, all these problems Ian, sorry to hear. You must regret buying the SC now huh?
It's been a heck of a ride. I figure right now it's worth to me about $1500, but not the $2500 I paid, plus the $800+ for a swap in the future....
Not to mention the $200 or so for tools and fluids/hoses/equipment, $490 for the VB Mod, $250 in diagnosing, and $120 in Dyno.
I'm just going to forget about it for awhile. Hopefully, if the SC is damaged in any way, it won't get worse. I'm VERY careful with it, and don't drive over 2k RPMs for a good 10 minutes before I boost, and check the belt/oil level/tranny, etc. just about once a day.
IanS
07-08-2002, 12:40 PM
#130
Originally posted by iansw
Yes and no.
It's been a heck of a ride. I figure right now it's worth to me about $1500, but not the $2500 I paid, plus the $800+ for a swap in the future....
Not to mention the $200 or so for tools and fluids/hoses/equipment, $490 for the VB Mod, $250 in diagnosing, and $120 in Dyno.
I'm just going to forget about it for awhile. Hopefully, if the SC is damaged in any way, it won't get worse. I'm VERY careful with it, and don't drive over 2k RPMs for a good 10 minutes before I boost, and check the belt/oil level/tranny, etc. just about once a day.
IanS
Yes and no.
It's been a heck of a ride. I figure right now it's worth to me about $1500, but not the $2500 I paid, plus the $800+ for a swap in the future....
Not to mention the $200 or so for tools and fluids/hoses/equipment, $490 for the VB Mod, $250 in diagnosing, and $120 in Dyno.
I'm just going to forget about it for awhile. Hopefully, if the SC is damaged in any way, it won't get worse. I'm VERY careful with it, and don't drive over 2k RPMs for a good 10 minutes before I boost, and check the belt/oil level/tranny, etc. just about once a day.
IanS
I don't think you'll get any help from Loren because you can't prove that it WASN'T working on his car, he can always say you broke it somehow when installing it.
I would buy an exhaust at any rate (apexi ws is real quiet) and just live with it. Also, have you tried a second boost guage yet?
Having 4 techs look at your car really isn't going to do anytthing. Our cars don't interface with electronics, AFC, etc very well so it's hard to tell what's going on without being able to see, hear, or feel anything wrong. Maybe someone can pressure test your vaccuum system, but no one will really be able to detect a faulty s/c without hearing something obviously wrong or being able to take it apart. Just know that with a 3.25 on a V1 you'll be averaging 8 LBS, probably peaking 9 on a cold night.
07-08-2002, 01:16 PM
#131
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Well, the last run Loren did with this SC on, he blew his engine, or so I'm told.
That's pretty good evidence right there.
He's also a really cool guy, as far as I can tell, and I think he'd be responsible enough to see that it had to be damaged before the SC was on the car, because even on the very first run, I couldn't get over 5-6lbs of boost.
As far as troubleshooting, you'd know what I mean about the car running perfectly. I'd pay you $200 if you could find anything wrong. Noone else can, and 2 of these guys work on VQ's on a very regular basis.
One of them is a good friend, who has been doing this for 15+ years. He is the I30/Maxima Specialist at the local Infiniti dealership. if he can't find it, noone can.
Anyway, I know what I'm going to do now, it will jsut take me 6 months to get the $$$, and the Exhaust will ahve to wait quite awhile.
IanS
That's pretty good evidence right there.
He's also a really cool guy, as far as I can tell, and I think he'd be responsible enough to see that it had to be damaged before the SC was on the car, because even on the very first run, I couldn't get over 5-6lbs of boost.
As far as troubleshooting, you'd know what I mean about the car running perfectly. I'd pay you $200 if you could find anything wrong. Noone else can, and 2 of these guys work on VQ's on a very regular basis.
One of them is a good friend, who has been doing this for 15+ years. He is the I30/Maxima Specialist at the local Infiniti dealership. if he can't find it, noone can.
Anyway, I know what I'm going to do now, it will jsut take me 6 months to get the $$$, and the Exhaust will ahve to wait quite awhile.
IanS
07-08-2002, 02:52 PM
#132
Well now you bring new variables into the equation.
I do believe that Loren didn't intend to sell a possibly damaged blower. For instance, I blew my engine, or better melted my engine with the SC on. Even though the oil in the SC was smoking (lightly smoking) the SC is still on the car with the new engine and with the 3.6 pulley it can hit 8.5 LBS on my guage on a very cold night. 6.5 in the Summer heat though.
If I were to strap my car on a dyno, tune it out and blow the engine, I wouldn't hesitate to sell the SC. I can't really imagine an association between blowing and engine and damaging an SC. I do however see that if an engine were to die at near redline that the SC would probably come to an immediate halt (engine siezes, pulley siezes), which would be stressful on the uinit, but I don't think it would be destructive. If it was destructive I think it would so forceful as to completely ruin the SC altogether. There aren't any fins touching metal parts in the SC so an immediate stop shouldn't grind into anytihng. However, I do recommend you take the intake or CAI off and inspect the fins. I do belive V1 fins have small little slashes on the tail of the fin, but they're consistent (I could be wrong, it's been a while since I looked at mine, but I think I remember seeing small 1/8-1/16th inch slices on the end of the fins).
Good luck, and don't let it get to you, in due time I'm sure you'll either get it fixed, hopefully not at your expense, or you'll realize it's fine. For now, you still have an automatic four door that's is fairly reliable, gets good gas mileage, and still puts a whopping 270 FWHP down.
I do believe that Loren didn't intend to sell a possibly damaged blower. For instance, I blew my engine, or better melted my engine with the SC on. Even though the oil in the SC was smoking (lightly smoking) the SC is still on the car with the new engine and with the 3.6 pulley it can hit 8.5 LBS on my guage on a very cold night. 6.5 in the Summer heat though.
If I were to strap my car on a dyno, tune it out and blow the engine, I wouldn't hesitate to sell the SC. I can't really imagine an association between blowing and engine and damaging an SC. I do however see that if an engine were to die at near redline that the SC would probably come to an immediate halt (engine siezes, pulley siezes), which would be stressful on the uinit, but I don't think it would be destructive. If it was destructive I think it would so forceful as to completely ruin the SC altogether. There aren't any fins touching metal parts in the SC so an immediate stop shouldn't grind into anytihng. However, I do recommend you take the intake or CAI off and inspect the fins. I do belive V1 fins have small little slashes on the tail of the fin, but they're consistent (I could be wrong, it's been a while since I looked at mine, but I think I remember seeing small 1/8-1/16th inch slices on the end of the fins).
Good luck, and don't let it get to you, in due time I'm sure you'll either get it fixed, hopefully not at your expense, or you'll realize it's fine. For now, you still have an automatic four door that's is fairly reliable, gets good gas mileage, and still puts a whopping 270 FWHP down.
07-08-2002, 02:55 PM
#133
Another option for you is to:
And I do not promote this, but I could understand your reasoning behind doing this.
Take the unit, sell it on Ebay or private party, and let it be. I doubt another user would complain, hell most ppl don't even dyno their car, and they will feel an obvious difference in power. After that you can buy a V2 and say your excuse is you want quieter, or buy a turbo kit.
Your call, just a suggestion, but I recommend not telling anyone if this is your route, but I feel most people would understand. It's not entirely unjust as you haven't proved that the SC is actually broken, and your suspicions that it is damaged are a lot higher then a lot of the people replying to this thread.
Oh by the way, a little late on this, but my idle vaccuum is about -18 - -22, sits usually right around -19
And I do not promote this, but I could understand your reasoning behind doing this.
Take the unit, sell it on Ebay or private party, and let it be. I doubt another user would complain, hell most ppl don't even dyno their car, and they will feel an obvious difference in power. After that you can buy a V2 and say your excuse is you want quieter, or buy a turbo kit.
Your call, just a suggestion, but I recommend not telling anyone if this is your route, but I feel most people would understand. It's not entirely unjust as you haven't proved that the SC is actually broken, and your suspicions that it is damaged are a lot higher then a lot of the people replying to this thread.
Oh by the way, a little late on this, but my idle vaccuum is about -18 - -22, sits usually right around -19
07-08-2002, 03:11 PM
#134
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Originally posted by BrianV
Well now you bring new variables into the equation.
I do believe that Loren didn't intend to sell a possibly damaged blower. For instance, I blew my engine, or better melted my engine with the SC on. Even though the oil in the SC was smoking (lightly smoking) the SC is still on the car with the new engine and with the 3.6 pulley it can hit 8.5 LBS on my guage on a very cold night. 6.5 in the Summer heat though.
Well now you bring new variables into the equation.
I do believe that Loren didn't intend to sell a possibly damaged blower. For instance, I blew my engine, or better melted my engine with the SC on. Even though the oil in the SC was smoking (lightly smoking) the SC is still on the car with the new engine and with the 3.6 pulley it can hit 8.5 LBS on my guage on a very cold night. 6.5 in the Summer heat though.
How would he know, without another engine to put it on?
I'm just saying it's possible that it happened, not that Loren knew anything about it.
I don't at all think Loren did anything shady knowingly.
IanS
07-08-2002, 03:20 PM
#135
Originally posted by iansw
Of course, don't get me wrong. I don't have the slightest bit of thought that if Loren hurt the SC when his engine blew, he knew nothing about the SC Being hurt.
How would he know, without another engine to put it on?
I'm just saying it's possible.
I don't at all think Loren did anything shady knowingly.
IanS
Of course, don't get me wrong. I don't have the slightest bit of thought that if Loren hurt the SC when his engine blew, he knew nothing about the SC Being hurt.
How would he know, without another engine to put it on?
I'm just saying it's possible.
I don't at all think Loren did anything shady knowingly.
IanS
08-06-2002, 09:57 PM
#136
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Originally posted by BrianV
Roger Dodger, well I wish both of you the best of luck in finding a peaceful, harmonic resolution.
Roger Dodger, well I wish both of you the best of luck in finding a peaceful, harmonic resolution.
I had installed my new AutoMeter Lunar Boost gauge the night before, locating it at the same place as the old gauge, and got 5 PSI and 12Hg.
I went over to Czar's house last Sunday and we took the vacuum system apart somewhat for the MEVI and the SC. We then re-installed the gauge, using sealing tape and making sure it ran with no kinks. We also relocated the boost gauge closer to the manifold. We hoever, did NOT replace any of the original hoses.
We then stuck a real vacuum gauge on the car. 17Hg at idle, 15 in D.
We took it for a spin, and I could instantly feel a power gain.
And then I hit 8 PSI. On the way home, I hit 9.
So BrianV, my hat off to you. There is nothing wrong with the SC, and maybe a boost leak somewhere, but I didn't see where. I really don't know exactly what changed it.
Next move: Re-Dyno and CatBack.
IanS
08-07-2002, 07:11 AM
#137
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Originally posted by iansw
That is bad because according to Loren, I should have 9PSI, and should be getting 260-280 WITHOUT the MEVI.
As it stands, I've got a 3.25" Pulley, and am only getting 6PSI and 231hp without the MEVI.
I have a WSP Y-Pipe, but stock exhaust.
IanS
That is bad because according to Loren, I should have 9PSI, and should be getting 260-280 WITHOUT the MEVI.
As it stands, I've got a 3.25" Pulley, and am only getting 6PSI and 231hp without the MEVI.
I have a WSP Y-Pipe, but stock exhaust.
IanS
With a 3.33" pulley & getting FULL 8 lbs of boost, I only got 232 HP at the wheels!!!
Budget Y-pipe & stock exhaust.
If 9psi should give 270, 8 psi should atleast give me 250-260.
231 HP at 6psi is definitely better than mine...
08-07-2002, 07:58 AM
#138
Originally posted by dashingMax
Now, you are scaring me. Maybe something is wrong with my car too.
With a 3.33" pulley & getting FULL 8 lbs of boost, I only got 232 HP at the wheels!!!
Budget Y-pipe & stock exhaust.
If 9psi should give 270, 8 psi should atleast give me 250-260.
231 HP at 6psi is definitely better than mine...
Now, you are scaring me. Maybe something is wrong with my car too.
With a 3.33" pulley & getting FULL 8 lbs of boost, I only got 232 HP at the wheels!!!
Budget Y-pipe & stock exhaust.
If 9psi should give 270, 8 psi should atleast give me 250-260.
231 HP at 6psi is definitely better than mine...
your stock exhaust is what is killing you.
I think jane had a dyno sheet with her stock exhaust and she dyno'd at 225ish
but then put an aftermarket exhaust on and y pipe and went to about 245ish.
Just my opinon
08-07-2002, 08:04 AM
#139
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Originally posted by bags533
your stock exhaust is what is killing you.
I think jane had a dyno sheet with her stock exhaust and she dyno'd at 225ish.
but then put an aftermarket exhaust on and y pipe and went to about 245ish.
Just my opinon
your stock exhaust is what is killing you.
I think jane had a dyno sheet with her stock exhaust and she dyno'd at 225ish.
but then put an aftermarket exhaust on and y pipe and went to about 245ish.
Just my opinon
I ordered the Greddy SP. It is full 2.5" cat-back. It is 3 weeks & the darn thing hasn't arrived.
I plan on dynoing right after the exhaust install at the same place on the same dyno.
Quick question: Should I have them slap the cat-back & put it on the dyno right away?? Or, should I drive around a little & let the ECU adjust to the new exhaust?? Sorry in advance if this sounds like a dumb question...
08-07-2002, 08:22 PM
#140
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Originally posted by bags533
your stock exhaust is what is killing you.
I think jane had a dyno sheet with her stock exhaust and she dyno'd at 225ish
but then put an aftermarket exhaust on and y pipe and went to about 245ish.
Just my opinon
your stock exhaust is what is killing you.
I think jane had a dyno sheet with her stock exhaust and she dyno'd at 225ish
but then put an aftermarket exhaust on and y pipe and went to about 245ish.
Just my opinon
08-07-2002, 08:44 PM
#141
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Really? I thought you said you did.
Guess I mis-read.
Question: An Auto Max should not expect to see the PSI levels that a stick sees, even when manually shifting, correct?
IanS
Guess I mis-read.
Question: An Auto Max should not expect to see the PSI levels that a stick sees, even when manually shifting, correct?
IanS
08-07-2002, 09:01 PM
#142
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Originally posted by iansw
Really? I thought you said you did.
Guess I mis-read.
Question: An Auto Max should not expect to see the PSI levels that a stick sees, even when manually shifting, correct?
IanS
Really? I thought you said you did.
Guess I mis-read.
Question: An Auto Max should not expect to see the PSI levels that a stick sees, even when manually shifting, correct?
IanS
Not correct, since boost is RPM dependent and not transmission dependent.
08-07-2002, 10:17 PM
#143
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Originally posted by Jane97SE
Nope, never said I did. I got the y-pipe about a year after I had the s/c.
Not correct, since boost is RPM dependent and not transmission dependent.
Nope, never said I did. I got the y-pipe about a year after I had the s/c.
Not correct, since boost is RPM dependent and not transmission dependent.
I was told that a CatBack added 1 PSI, or at least with Loren, the previous owner of this SC, it did.
IanS
08-08-2002, 03:48 AM
#144
Originally posted by Jane97SE
When I dyno'd, I had the Greddy and the s/c which was 229 FWHP. I never dyno'd with the stock pulley and a y-pipe.
When I dyno'd, I had the Greddy and the s/c which was 229 FWHP. I never dyno'd with the stock pulley and a y-pipe.
I guess I misunderstood, or just can't remember what I did read.
Sorry for putting incorrect information about your car out. I will try NOT to let this happen again
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