What would be needed---> Custom Supercharger... :) LONG
07-09-2002, 09:38 PM
#1
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What would be needed---> Custom Supercharger... :) LONG
Alright, I know this has already been discussed before (I searched) but would all would be required to make a custom supercharger kit? Please don't answer time and money, I know that already. I mean, the main part of the Stillen kit appears to be the bracket, which isnt that great of a design. While it may be copyrighted, what's to stop someone from making their own bracket, mounting up a V2, and running their own plumbing? I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard, I took a year of metal machining shop classes in college, and was even offered a job at Edlebrock, (had to be real smart and join the Marine Corps instead, doh!) if I had access to a machine shop, i'm sure I could duplicate the mounting bracket relativlely easily, and then make my own from that. The mounting bracket appears to be the hardest part to do, since the measurements have to be perfect, and the pulley's have to line up. Then I would need some sort of FMU, run the oil lines and intake tubing... or how about a completly different S/C, like a Powerdyne, no oil lines, and it's different, different mounting plate would be required, no one could say you were copying their design... If you didn't sell it, could you even get in trouble for copying a design for your own use? Of course, all of this would require you actually have an S/C in your possesion so you could do fitment test... Any other info known welcome, as well as the assured flames... 
07-09-2002, 09:46 PM
#2
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Re: What would be needed---> Custom Supercharger... :) LONG
I'm looking forward to an answer. This question has been asked about turbos but there has never been a satisfactory answer (IMO).
I'm replying to answer your question below... YES! My friend made a 'custom' zamboni (a piece of piping, garden hose, a water pump, and a section of carpet) to clean the pond behind his house for hockey. He asked his company's lawyer if he could patent it and George did some research... turns out someone makes almost the same thing and already has a patent. George told my friend "legally I have to tell you to dismantle your zamboni." Of course he didn't dismantle it, but George told him he could get a HUGE fine for possessing his homemade zamboni. Law, and lawyers. suck (sometimes).
I'm replying to answer your question below... YES! My friend made a 'custom' zamboni (a piece of piping, garden hose, a water pump, and a section of carpet) to clean the pond behind his house for hockey. He asked his company's lawyer if he could patent it and George did some research... turns out someone makes almost the same thing and already has a patent. George told my friend "legally I have to tell you to dismantle your zamboni." Of course he didn't dismantle it, but George told him he could get a HUGE fine for possessing his homemade zamboni. Law, and lawyers. suck (sometimes).
Originally posted by mtrai760
If you didn't sell it, could you even get in trouble for copying a design for your own use?
If you didn't sell it, could you even get in trouble for copying a design for your own use?
07-09-2002, 10:06 PM
#3
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Re: Re: What would be needed---> Custom Supercharger... :) LONG
Doesn't a patent only last for 8 years or something like that?
Originally posted by 2k2wannabe
I'm looking forward to an answer. This question has been asked about turbos but there has never been a satisfactory answer (IMO).
I'm replying to answer your question below... YES! My friend made a 'custom' zamboni (a piece of piping, garden hose, a water pump, and a section of carpet) to clean the pond behind his house for hockey. He asked his company's lawyer if he could patent it and George did some research... turns out someone makes almost the same thing and already has a patent. George told my friend "legally I have to tell you to dismantle your zamboni." Of course he didn't dismantle it, but George told him he could get a HUGE fine for possessing his homemade zamboni. Law, and lawyers. suck (sometimes).
I'm looking forward to an answer. This question has been asked about turbos but there has never been a satisfactory answer (IMO).
I'm replying to answer your question below... YES! My friend made a 'custom' zamboni (a piece of piping, garden hose, a water pump, and a section of carpet) to clean the pond behind his house for hockey. He asked his company's lawyer if he could patent it and George did some research... turns out someone makes almost the same thing and already has a patent. George told my friend "legally I have to tell you to dismantle your zamboni." Of course he didn't dismantle it, but George told him he could get a HUGE fine for possessing his homemade zamboni. Law, and lawyers. suck (sometimes).
07-09-2002, 10:09 PM
#4
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So let's say I do this, make one for myself... Theirs no reason why any lawyer would ever look under my hood... if I happened to share the info on how to do it with a couple of people... hey, freedom of information right? I never sold a copyrighted product?
07-09-2002, 10:33 PM
#5
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The hardest part would be your automotive and engineering knowledge. If you want custom parts made, you better know CAD. No way someone would sit there wasting days on R&D for one part that's going to be one time use. It's just not profitable for companies to do something like that, unless you pay $$$. If you are asking what are the parts needed for a SC kit, then you are already behind the learing curve. That's the easy part 
I'm not SC expert, but here are some major parts I can think of. I think the FMU is easy. The bulk of the money like I stated will be making custom parts.
1. Finding an off the shelf SC that can fit nicely into that space. Powerdyne might not fit. ~$1800
2. Custom CNC that mounting bracket to work with your choice of SC.
2. Build a reliable pulley system.
3. All the mandrel bent pipings, MAF plate, BOV neck..etc.
If you can not make these parts yourself, then it really does boil down to your time/money. It will be nice if you have welding equipment and a CNC machine. In the end, you will end up paying about twice as much. You will have a copy of Stillen's kit with the only difference is the SC unit. How about the little things that you can only learn from experience? What size piping is optimal for the SC? Pulley size to spin that particular SC to make push the correct amount of air? How much fuel do you need to add into the combustion chamber?
I'm not SC expert, but here are some major parts I can think of. I think the FMU is easy. The bulk of the money like I stated will be making custom parts.
1. Finding an off the shelf SC that can fit nicely into that space. Powerdyne might not fit. ~$1800
2. Custom CNC that mounting bracket to work with your choice of SC.
2. Build a reliable pulley system.
3. All the mandrel bent pipings, MAF plate, BOV neck..etc.
If you can not make these parts yourself, then it really does boil down to your time/money. It will be nice if you have welding equipment and a CNC machine. In the end, you will end up paying about twice as much. You will have a copy of Stillen's kit with the only difference is the SC unit. How about the little things that you can only learn from experience? What size piping is optimal for the SC? Pulley size to spin that particular SC to make push the correct amount of air? How much fuel do you need to add into the combustion chamber?
07-10-2002, 07:44 AM
#7
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I know what I need to make the S/C work, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything, since I don't actually have one right now 
I can make parts, granted finding a machine shop to use may be hard, but hey, I'm just getting started on this idea. I wouldn't have to use CNC if I was making a one-off part for myself. As much as I would love to design and sell a kit to the masses, I just don't have that kind of money, I have a wedding to pay for and a house soon... I think the biggest shellout would be for the S/C of course, then getting it to fit, pulley tension, and getting the air to the intake manifold. Like I was saying about the steallin kit, the bracket obviously copying it would be breaking the law, but they can't say you copied their intake piping, thiers only so many ways to make it!
Anyways, all of this is probably a long shot anyway. Many have discussed doing it, no one so far has produced a kit. Not saying that I will, just wanted to get some input and feedback on my ideas, and my fellow .Org member's ideas. If I could make the brakets and piping for say, $5-600, plus the $1800 for the S/C, that would only be $2400, much cheaper than any kit on the market... and if one person goes through the trouble of designing the kit, then shares (or sells) the correct design specs to other's, they could probably do it for even less....
Thanks for the input, keep em coming!!!
I can make parts, granted finding a machine shop to use may be hard, but hey, I'm just getting started on this idea. I wouldn't have to use CNC if I was making a one-off part for myself. As much as I would love to design and sell a kit to the masses, I just don't have that kind of money, I have a wedding to pay for and a house soon... I think the biggest shellout would be for the S/C of course, then getting it to fit, pulley tension, and getting the air to the intake manifold. Like I was saying about the steallin kit, the bracket obviously copying it would be breaking the law, but they can't say you copied their intake piping, thiers only so many ways to make it!Anyways, all of this is probably a long shot anyway. Many have discussed doing it, no one so far has produced a kit. Not saying that I will, just wanted to get some input and feedback on my ideas, and my fellow .Org member's ideas. If I could make the brakets and piping for say, $5-600, plus the $1800 for the S/C, that would only be $2400, much cheaper than any kit on the market... and if one person goes through the trouble of designing the kit, then shares (or sells) the correct design specs to other's, they could probably do it for even less....
Thanks for the input, keep em coming!!!
Originally posted by 1MAX2NV
The hardest part would be your automotive and engineering knowledge. If you want custom parts made, you better know CAD. No way someone would sit there wasting days on R&D for one part that's going to be one time use. It's just not profitable for companies to do something like that, unless you pay $$$. If you are asking what are the parts needed for a SC kit, then you are already behind the learing curve. That's the easy part
I'm not SC expert, but here are some major parts I can think of. I think the FMU is easy. The bulk of the money like I stated will be making custom parts.
1. Finding an off the shelf SC that can fit nicely into that space. Powerdyne might not fit. ~$1800
2. Custom CNC that mounting bracket to work with your choice of SC.
2. Build a reliable pulley system.
3. All the mandrel bent pipings, MAF plate, BOV neck..etc.
If you can not make these parts yourself, then it really does boil down to your time/money. It will be nice if you have welding equipment and a CNC machine. In the end, you will end up paying about twice as much. You will have a copy of Stillen's kit with the only difference is the SC unit. How about the little things that you can only learn from experience? What size piping is optimal for the SC? Pulley size to spin that particular SC to make push the correct amount of air? How much fuel do you need to add into the combustion chamber?
The hardest part would be your automotive and engineering knowledge. If you want custom parts made, you better know CAD. No way someone would sit there wasting days on R&D for one part that's going to be one time use. It's just not profitable for companies to do something like that, unless you pay $$$. If you are asking what are the parts needed for a SC kit, then you are already behind the learing curve. That's the easy part
I'm not SC expert, but here are some major parts I can think of. I think the FMU is easy. The bulk of the money like I stated will be making custom parts.
1. Finding an off the shelf SC that can fit nicely into that space. Powerdyne might not fit. ~$1800
2. Custom CNC that mounting bracket to work with your choice of SC.
2. Build a reliable pulley system.
3. All the mandrel bent pipings, MAF plate, BOV neck..etc.
If you can not make these parts yourself, then it really does boil down to your time/money. It will be nice if you have welding equipment and a CNC machine. In the end, you will end up paying about twice as much. You will have a copy of Stillen's kit with the only difference is the SC unit. How about the little things that you can only learn from experience? What size piping is optimal for the SC? Pulley size to spin that particular SC to make push the correct amount of air? How much fuel do you need to add into the combustion chamber?
07-10-2002, 09:01 AM
#8
It's chrome alright...
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lets get this straight
It is illegal to copy, it is illegal to copy and give away, it is illegal to copy and "tell" someone else how to do it.
Would you get caught doing any of those??? Of course not.
You'd only get in trouble if you copied it and sold it, and even then probably only if you did stupidly (in other words, "shh.")
recap, illegal=yes
getting caught=changes so slim it might as well be zero
Would you get caught doing any of those??? Of course not.
You'd only get in trouble if you copied it and sold it, and even then probably only if you did stupidly (in other words, "shh.")
recap, illegal=yes
getting caught=changes so slim it might as well be zero
07-10-2002, 09:36 PM
#9
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I'm looking around right now for a place that has a machine shop I can use, maybe a local college, or else I know people who can make stuff on the cheap. Anyone have pictures of just the bracket, and a closeup of a S/C mounted? I've got some pulley tensioner ideas too...
07-10-2002, 10:01 PM
#10
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I would say that making a custom turbo would be easier. You need the turbo unit, intercooler, BOV, piping and of course the software to accompany it. Then you need to upgrade the internals (maybe, depending on how much boost you run) and to reconfigure the injectors and possibly fuel pump.
07-10-2002, 10:15 PM
#11
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Thiers no exhaust piping to try and route with a supercharger, just the intake piping...
Originally posted by Knightmare69
I would say that making a custom turbo would be easier. You need the turbo unit, intercooler, BOV, piping and of course the software to accompany it. Then you need to upgrade the internals (maybe, depending on how much boost you run) and to reconfigure the injectors and possibly fuel pump.
I would say that making a custom turbo would be easier. You need the turbo unit, intercooler, BOV, piping and of course the software to accompany it. Then you need to upgrade the internals (maybe, depending on how much boost you run) and to reconfigure the injectors and possibly fuel pump.
07-10-2002, 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by mtrai760
Thiers no exhaust piping to try and route with a supercharger, just the intake piping...
Thiers no exhaust piping to try and route with a supercharger, just the intake piping...
07-11-2002, 07:32 AM
#13
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I just saw a picture of the bracket and I'm SURE I could make one...
It's called reverse engineering, and EVERYONE does it. Take what someone else has done, figure it out, then figure out a way to make it better. Did 17 different companies invent the VCR or DVD at the same time? No, but how many companies sell them?
It's called reverse engineering, and EVERYONE does it. Take what someone else has done, figure it out, then figure out a way to make it better. Did 17 different companies invent the VCR or DVD at the same time? No, but how many companies sell them?
07-11-2002, 07:55 AM
#14
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Originally posted by mtrai760
I'm looking around right now for a place that has a machine shop I can use, maybe a local college, or else I know people who can make stuff on the cheap. Anyone have pictures of just the bracket, and a closeup of a S/C mounted? I've got some pulley tensioner ideas too...
I'm looking around right now for a place that has a machine shop I can use, maybe a local college, or else I know people who can make stuff on the cheap. Anyone have pictures of just the bracket, and a closeup of a S/C mounted? I've got some pulley tensioner ideas too...
then you could make us all brackets. LOL
Maybe a local machine shop could make you one for cheap....
07-11-2002, 08:07 AM
#15
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If i had the actual bracket, i could take the direct measurements and make the part in edgecam. the program makes the machine code so i just have to get a peice of stock and mill it out.... it could work. My old college has 2 haas mills i could bring it to
07-11-2002, 08:13 AM
#16
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well..his goal was to use a totally different supercharger unit. He would pretty much have to make a bracket out from scratch. I'm sure the Stillen/Vortech bracket would provide some ideas. I'm 100% sure he can do it, but the total cost of the project would be more than buying the Stillen kit.
Originally posted by Krash513
If i had the actual bracket, i could take the direct measurements and make the part in edgecam. the program makes the machine code so i just have to get a peice of stock and mill it out.... it could work. My old college has 2 haas mills i could bring it to
If i had the actual bracket, i could take the direct measurements and make the part in edgecam. the program makes the machine code so i just have to get a peice of stock and mill it out.... it could work. My old college has 2 haas mills i could bring it to
07-11-2002, 08:14 AM
#17
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I just moved to WA a year ago, and I don't know many places here still. I'm going to look around at the local colleges here soon and see what I can come up with... In Cali, I could have given a bracket to my friends Dad and gotten a 100 copies back the next day... I don't want to copy though (well, not for the final design) I want to make a better bracket.... Make the first couple out of mild steel for fitment trials, then get some good grade stainless... I'm sure if I get a final design done that works (the HARD part) I could make a few, just don't know at what cost yet... And this is assuming I can get access to a machine shop here that won't charge me an arm and a leg
08-11-2002, 09:34 PM
#20
Re: What would be needed---> Custom Supercharger... :) LONG
Originally posted by mtrai760
Alright, I know this has already been discussed before (I searched) but would all would be required to make a custom supercharger kit? Please don't answer time and money, I know that already. I mean, the main part of the Stillen kit appears to be the bracket, which isnt that great of a design. While it may be copyrighted, what's to stop someone from making their own bracket, mounting up a V2, and running their own plumbing? I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard, I took a year of metal machining shop classes in college, and was even offered a job at Edlebrock, (had to be real smart and join the Marine Corps instead, doh!) if I had access to a machine shop, i'm sure I could duplicate the mounting bracket relativlely easily, and then make my own from that. The mounting bracket appears to be the hardest part to do, since the measurements have to be perfect, and the pulley's have to line up. Then I would need some sort of FMU, run the oil lines and intake tubing... or how about a completly different S/C, like a Powerdyne, no oil lines, and it's different, different mounting plate would be required, no one could say you were copying their design... If you didn't sell it, could you even get in trouble for copying a design for your own use? Of course, all of this would require you actually have an S/C in your possesion so you could do fitment test... Any other info known welcome, as well as the assured flames...
Alright, I know this has already been discussed before (I searched) but would all would be required to make a custom supercharger kit? Please don't answer time and money, I know that already. I mean, the main part of the Stillen kit appears to be the bracket, which isnt that great of a design. While it may be copyrighted, what's to stop someone from making their own bracket, mounting up a V2, and running their own plumbing? I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard, I took a year of metal machining shop classes in college, and was even offered a job at Edlebrock, (had to be real smart and join the Marine Corps instead, doh!) if I had access to a machine shop, i'm sure I could duplicate the mounting bracket relativlely easily, and then make my own from that. The mounting bracket appears to be the hardest part to do, since the measurements have to be perfect, and the pulley's have to line up. Then I would need some sort of FMU, run the oil lines and intake tubing... or how about a completly different S/C, like a Powerdyne, no oil lines, and it's different, different mounting plate would be required, no one could say you were copying their design... If you didn't sell it, could you even get in trouble for copying a design for your own use? Of course, all of this would require you actually have an S/C in your possesion so you could do fitment test... Any other info known welcome, as well as the assured flames...
08-11-2002, 11:02 PM
#21
Does it really cost that much for Stillen/Vortech to make the Supercharger unit that justfies the price?
As far as the legal issues
I wouldn't worry.. No one can tell you anything if you are doing something for your own use and "sharing" it with a group of friends, for no $.
As far as the legal issues
I wouldn't worry.. No one can tell you anything if you are doing something for your own use and "sharing" it with a group of friends, for no $.
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