4th gen - gauging interest +6hp/+9tq for $100
01-26-2004, 05:33 PM
#125
Well, good to know we don't need it and that it probably wouldn't be an improvement anyway.
Good to know Nissan has done a few things right on our cars.
(if we have to put up with a minivan rear suspension, the drivetrain had better be damned good! 
)
Good to know Nissan has done a few things right on our cars.
(if we have to put up with a minivan rear suspension, the drivetrain had better be damned good! )
01-28-2004, 02:25 PM
#126
hey be sure to let me know the results. maybe they could make a few custom jobs. im going to have my stock one replaced soon. it must be getting old has a few tiny leaks coming through.
01-29-2004, 01:26 PM
#127
Originally Posted by 99Maxima5sp
This is bullsh!t, why did those engineers have to make our motor so damn good from the factory?!?
Eric
Eric
No kidding, don't they know we want to spend money on this stuff.
01-29-2004, 05:35 PM
#128
I dont know if many of you understand the outcome of my visit with Sean Morgan (of OE).
Sean Morgan did not find any evidence that says we would get sufficient gains (6hp/9lbtq like the subject says). We already have thick gaskets. The hp gain might only be like 1hp for the VQ. That in his mind is not worth creating a product for, whether or not you guys would still buy it. He has plenty of cars that do well with these and have great gains (those cars with thin: paper, metal, or some other material for a gasket). It is not worth it for him or us to have these manufactured.
Sean Morgan did not find any evidence that says we would get sufficient gains (6hp/9lbtq like the subject says). We already have thick gaskets. The hp gain might only be like 1hp for the VQ. That in his mind is not worth creating a product for, whether or not you guys would still buy it. He has plenty of cars that do well with these and have great gains (those cars with thin: paper, metal, or some other material for a gasket). It is not worth it for him or us to have these manufactured.
01-30-2004, 06:10 AM
#129
Sorry to hear the disappointing news. It was worth looking into though I think.
Whenever non Nissan owners look at my stock gasket they always think it's already been upgraded looking at the thickness of the thing.
Interesting about the 180deg lower man temp. That's "exactly" what my coolant temp is no matter the outside temp 50deg or 0deg. Haven't gotten a summer reading yet though.
I wonder what gains (if any) the TB gasket might produce either through heat isolation or the longer distance. Maybe OE could cut us one or two to try out. Those should be a cinch to measure and just cut. PowerAid already makes spacers for late model Pathfinders.
If somebody with a VE or VG wants to run those engines past Sean then go right ahead. I don't know how those OEM gaskets are sized to begin with. He mentioned he already had a local VG available to play with (maybe an employees).
Thanks again Gabe for your time and effort. Sorry to get everyone's hopes up.
Next idea?
Whenever non Nissan owners look at my stock gasket they always think it's already been upgraded looking at the thickness of the thing.
Interesting about the 180deg lower man temp. That's "exactly" what my coolant temp is no matter the outside temp 50deg or 0deg. Haven't gotten a summer reading yet though.
I wonder what gains (if any) the TB gasket might produce either through heat isolation or the longer distance. Maybe OE could cut us one or two to try out. Those should be a cinch to measure and just cut. PowerAid already makes spacers for late model Pathfinders.
If somebody with a VE or VG wants to run those engines past Sean then go right ahead. I don't know how those OEM gaskets are sized to begin with. He mentioned he already had a local VG available to play with (maybe an employees).
Thanks again Gabe for your time and effort. Sorry to get everyone's hopes up.
Next idea?
01-30-2004, 06:19 AM
#130
Originally Posted by gabex
I dont know if many of you understand the outcome of my visit with Sean Morgan (of OE).
Sean Morgan did not find any evidence that says we would get sufficient gains (6hp/9lbtq like the subject says). We already have thick gaskets. The hp gain might only be like 1hp for the VQ. That in his mind is not worth creating a product for, whether or not you guys would still buy it. He has plenty of cars that do well with these and have great gains (those cars with thin: paper, metal, or some other material for a gasket). It is not worth it for him or us to have these manufactured.
Sean Morgan did not find any evidence that says we would get sufficient gains (6hp/9lbtq like the subject says). We already have thick gaskets. The hp gain might only be like 1hp for the VQ. That in his mind is not worth creating a product for, whether or not you guys would still buy it. He has plenty of cars that do well with these and have great gains (those cars with thin: paper, metal, or some other material for a gasket). It is not worth it for him or us to have these manufactured.
02-02-2004, 11:46 AM
#135
Maxima lovers:
After seeing the amount of interest this topic drew on the Maxima.org board, Outlaw Engineering was definitely excited about working with this fine piece of automotive engineering. We have had a great expreience working with the SR20DE folks and felt that designing a kit for the VQ motor was a logical next step.
However, after examining the intake manifold setup on Gabe's '95 VQ motor, we came to the conclusion that a ThermoBlok kit will be of no use to the Maxima crowd. As stated earlier in the thread, it appears that Nissan uses a 3/8" thick gasket (my guess is EPDM or polyacrylic rubber, not silicon) that already effectively thermally separates the upper intake plenum from the short lower runners. We measured a healthy 50-60 degree F temp difference from one side of the gasket to the other which is about par for other applications using ThermoBlok kits.
It also appears that a throttle body spacer would not be beneficial either as Gabe's was very cool and did not appear to have coolant running through it. I'll admit however, that I didn't look closely at the throttle body after we determined the intake spacers wouldn't be useful. Can anyone verify if the throttle body has coolant flow???.
As for the AirMax and Tornado products, please don't waste your hard earned cash. I won't go into the details at length in this post, but the only performance gain will be due to the weight reduction of your wallet. These spacer DO NOT effectively swirl the intake air. Even if they did, the swirl would decay long before it ever approached the intake valve. Additionally, swirl always induces a flow restriction...always...period.
Also, spacers between lower manifold and cylinder are not possible due to the fact that that the addition of spacers to the angle of the intake ports in the V configuration would create a geometry mismatch between the port in the cylinder head and intake runners.
As much as Outlaw would love to sell thousands of ThermoBlok kits to Maxima owners, we cannot do so in good conscience. Others may come along that seek to separate you from your money, but we don't do business that way.
Kudos to Gabe for being willing to brave the cold and snow to bring his car over and to all the others that talked to us about this project. If other details come to the surface that would make this or a throttle body spacer an effective mod, we would be happy to work with you guys.
Sorry about using your user ID Gabe, there's obviously a cookie from when you logged on during your visit!
Sean Morgan
Outlaw Engineering
After seeing the amount of interest this topic drew on the Maxima.org board, Outlaw Engineering was definitely excited about working with this fine piece of automotive engineering. We have had a great expreience working with the SR20DE folks and felt that designing a kit for the VQ motor was a logical next step.
However, after examining the intake manifold setup on Gabe's '95 VQ motor, we came to the conclusion that a ThermoBlok kit will be of no use to the Maxima crowd. As stated earlier in the thread, it appears that Nissan uses a 3/8" thick gasket (my guess is EPDM or polyacrylic rubber, not silicon) that already effectively thermally separates the upper intake plenum from the short lower runners. We measured a healthy 50-60 degree F temp difference from one side of the gasket to the other which is about par for other applications using ThermoBlok kits.
It also appears that a throttle body spacer would not be beneficial either as Gabe's was very cool and did not appear to have coolant running through it. I'll admit however, that I didn't look closely at the throttle body after we determined the intake spacers wouldn't be useful. Can anyone verify if the throttle body has coolant flow???.
As for the AirMax and Tornado products, please don't waste your hard earned cash. I won't go into the details at length in this post, but the only performance gain will be due to the weight reduction of your wallet. These spacer DO NOT effectively swirl the intake air. Even if they did, the swirl would decay long before it ever approached the intake valve. Additionally, swirl always induces a flow restriction...always...period.
Also, spacers between lower manifold and cylinder are not possible due to the fact that that the addition of spacers to the angle of the intake ports in the V configuration would create a geometry mismatch between the port in the cylinder head and intake runners.
As much as Outlaw would love to sell thousands of ThermoBlok kits to Maxima owners, we cannot do so in good conscience. Others may come along that seek to separate you from your money, but we don't do business that way.
Kudos to Gabe for being willing to brave the cold and snow to bring his car over and to all the others that talked to us about this project. If other details come to the surface that would make this or a throttle body spacer an effective mod, we would be happy to work with you guys.
Sorry about using your user ID Gabe, there's obviously a cookie from when you logged on during your visit!
Sean Morgan
Outlaw Engineering
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