Hello gents:
I am working on a project for the last year, and I pretty much got stuck in one problem. I have the engine on megasquirt I, edis 6 with BMW COP coils, Z31 300zx manifold, holset hy35 turbocharger, Custom made intake manifold with ford 4.6 Throttle body. This will be installed on a RWD platform (TBD). The engine has a custom made wiring by me, and is sitting on an engine stand at the moment. (wanted to make sure everything was right before make the swap). My problem is that I am having intake back fire issues, and I have spend the last month trying to figure out what can be. The engine has not started yet... I know that these engines came with VTC, anyone knows if the VTC need to be engaged when starting the engine? I was planning to engage them at 10 psi via megasquirt. Any other suggestion is really welcome. Thanks

 

Just curious... how well does the Z31 manifold fit on a VE? All the ports and stuff line up OK? I've seen where someone put a Z32 (dohc like the ve) manifold on a VE, didn't know that a Z31 manifold (sohc) would also fit.

 

I does fit, but on the firewall side you need to drill one extra hole for one of the exhaust studs. Quite scary when I did it since I had no idea what I was to find... and you need to massage the holes a bit so all the studs line up. I will not recommend doing this if you can build one starting with the originals, since you also need to massage the ports in the exhaust manifold (all 6). I did it because of funds available. I can take some pictures, no idea how to post them here.

 

Are you the one doing that go-kart type car with the VE? I saw some project like that in recent months where somebody was putting a VE in one somewhere on the interwebz but can't quite remember where I saw it.

What made you choose a VE? Obviously I'm partial to them but it's rare/surprising to see people outside of a very small number of Maxima people mod them let alone use them as the engine choice for a swap. There's a guy in Austin, Brad, who has a turbo VE in his Z32, but that's because he crashed his turbo Maxima and then swapped the engine into the Z.

Anyway, I don't believe the VE needs the VTC's engaged to start. In fact, you can completely ground them to disable them and it will run fine. Many of us here disable them entirely due to the embarassing racket they make when the assemblies start to go bad. One of our OG members dyno'd with the VTC's engaged and disabled, and disabled I believe he only lost 12 HP on the top end.

Would love to see your project. There are only a handful of turbo VE's around, and I don't know that any of them are running MegaSquirt, unfortunately.

 

I choose it while I was in the junkyard, and It came to my mind that it will be better that the VG30e that I was looking. Didn't know what I was going... I am not the guy from the go kart. The only reason I keep going is that I was determinate to finish it, not necessary it was the best selection for a swap.

I just got a Timing Light to see what the EDIS module is doing.

 

I just checked the timing with a timing gun. It is at 10 degrees advanced during cranking, that i believe it should start at least. Anyone can confirm the engine cylinder timing? I got that is 1,2,3,4,5,6, and the EDIS wasted spark should be paired coils 1-4 going to coil A, 2-5 to coil B and 3-6 to coil C. the saga continues.

 

you're correct on the firing order and pairing

 

ohhhh right i was thinking about intake manifold, not the turbo exhaust manifold gotcha

 

After checking the timing yesterday, i found that one of the BMW coils was dead, and one of the injectors had a open reading on the multimeter, so that could help on the problem. (any suggestions on taking the damn injectors? i broke 6 before be able to take one good enough at the pull a part) Also, the intake i made seems that has some leakage, so i not sure if that will be part of the problem as well.( i can see the MAP reading on the tuner fluctuating down as the engine cranks) I need to confirm that I had wired the coils as intended, other that the things above i not sure what else I can do to fix the non start/intake backfire problem. (unless is a broken valve or something, I guess a compression test will answer that question...)

 

I quick question, can some one confirm the normal rotation of the VE30DE? I know sounds stupid, but I had modify a Z31 starter and used a Transmission plate from a Xterra, and made a base to support the starter on place while the engine is on the stand. I used the stock manual flywheel on the engine. and want to make a sanity check before going insane... Thanks for everyones help so far!

 

The VE spins clockwise*

And am understand correctly you're doing all this on stock VE injectors? Getting them out of the rail is a total crapshoot. I've broken bunches over the years too

*edit clarification - clockwise viewing it from the crank pulley

 

Thanks, another item check. Eventually I will change the stock injectors with something that can withstand E85, but at the moment is getting the engine running and safe to drive my priority.

 

maybe that waste management ignition is your dilemma...I would try indivdual coils per cylinder.....

 

what injector size is your megasuirt tuned for? I believe stock VE injectors are 260cc (dark red), VG are 160cc (pink)

 

I believe Jeff had his stock VE injectors flow tested at 270 back in the day. But VE injectors are officially 259's. VE's and VQ30's have identical injectors. I believe the VQ30DE-K's had slightly larger ones though

 

yea, VE and 4th gen injectors are the same. My car has 4th gen injectors in it right now, actually.

 

Let me ask you guys another question, if is possible to crank the Ve30de and register 0 PSI oil pressure? I installed an mechanical oil gauge to the engine, and looking to purge the line i didn't saw any oil going thru. I have an oil filter adapter with 3 ports, one of them going to the gauge. I even took the oil filter and did a little crank to see if there was anything coming out, no even a drop. I check the oil level, of course, all the way to the mark. Do the oil system need to be bleeded in a special way that I dont know? Or I just found the start of my nightmare?

In a less sad note, I successfully had change the bad injector with a 4th gen one..

 

it's just like any other car... the oil pickup can pull enough vacuum to get oil to the pump. you don't have to "manually prime" the oil pump or anything. I've never cranked it like that so I'm not 100% sure what the oil pressure is supposed to be during cranking, but I'd think it would still be readable...

You could always pull off the oil pan and give the pickup tube an inspection, make sure your tube-to-pump gasket isn't bad and making the pump suck air instead of oil, make sure your stuff isn't clogged etc. Maybe even pull off the oil pump and inspect the passageways behind it, and the pump itself.

 

I don't know about the VE specifically but I know it's somewhat common on other engines to not indicate oil pressure while cranking. How long are you cranking it for? I would think oil pressure should show up after a good 10 seconds or so. But just a little blip crank I don't know that you could expect any.

Also, are you positive this engine is even any good from the get-go? Did you get it running all stock (on the stock coils, injectors, wiring, etc) before starting this project? Why did you decide to go with the edis 6 ignition stuff? Is that a megasquirt requirement?

 

When I pulled the engine from the junkjard, we open the oil pan, and it didint had any metal shavings, so no oiling or overheating issues where suspected. It was pretty clean inside. Took out the sparkplug look good. Valve covers good too... The edis stuff was originally to be installed on a vg30e, but found this engine instead...

I am working the weekend, so I will go back to it asap...

 

Weekend Update:
I took the oil pan off, and seal the oil pick up tube at the connection with sealant, then proceed the test if the oil was been picked up, that it did on the test. Then sealed everything again, pour oil, and..... nothing. But I realize that I used 50W oil, and the engine stood like a year before I started working on it, so the internals must be dry (when i took the oil pick up tube, it was very dry inside the oil pump area, i put my finger there was not even a oil film there...), including the pump itself. I am planning to changed with a lower oil density, and some how at least get some oil to the oil pump and at least get everything lubed, and see what happen from there.

In a better note, I tried to quick start the engine, behaved better, apparently the misfires where the dead coil that was letting raw fuel getting inside the exhaust manifold. Still working on it....

 

Well, call me crazy, but it worked! Apparently been so dry the oil pump was not able to pick up the oil, due that the oil film on the pump was not there, and not creating much suction, and no oil. (that is what I believe and that is what I am going with) I took the oil filter base, and oiled the hole going to the oil pump. Turned the engine in opposite direction for a couple turns by hand, and that was it! The lower oil weight didn't did the trick BTW. Lesson of the day, make sure you have OIL PRESSURE before you do anything else... And make sure the oil pump is LUBED if you install one...

In a different note, I have completely sealed the intake manifold I did, if I have time tomorrow I will installed and see what happens...

I have pictures that I can post if someone give a hint how to...

 

Today, I was able to fire the engine for the first time in a year, it was a amazing feeling hear it running for those 25 seconds. I believe that a leaky manifold and 1 bad injector and 1 bad coil, where the causes of all that. Still I have many challenges, but at least this one is complete. Thanks for all the persons that took some time and help me with this adventure. This is not over, it just the beginning... Next is to make sure the idle is stable and somehow deal with the thermostat relocation.

 

Glad you got it running! Here's the pics posted for you

 

Does anyone knows the flow of the coolant on this engine? it enters thru the rear or the front?

 

Enters thru the rear, leaves thru the front.

 

Thanks once again for you assistance. The water inlet that is near by the fuel regulator, i believe that is used by the pump to recirculate the coolant internally (when the thermostat is not open), this is correct? also if I block that inlet, anyone believes that the engine will over heat on one section? I am planing to use a electrical pump and timed depending on coolant temperature, so i don't need a thermostat. (and I can delete the power steering as well)

 

yeah i think that's just a bypass so the coolant will circulate when the heater/radiator can't accept enough flow. I wouldn't delete it if i were you, seems you could develop hotspots from stagnant coolant if your coolant isn't constantly circulating. Plus if your coolant was stationary, the coolant temperature reading probably wouldn't be very accurate.



Similar to the one on the VG but on the opposite side of the motor.

 

Once again, thanks!!! I think the best thing is not plugged, redirected to the radiator, along with the front returning to the radiator, make a splice on the way , and called a day. It is very problematic try to relocate the thermostat some where and make work good. With the electric water pump i hope there are not many problems. For the E-water pump I am thinking timed to an interval so the coolant temp sensor can read and activate the fans. Any toughs (In paper works..)

 

can you take a closer picture of what's causing you to need to modify that? is the exhaust in the way of the coolant pipes or something? I guess if you have no thermostat at all, then you would be circulating that way... so the bypass loop wouldn't be as necessary.

 

also one of the purposes of having a thermostat is so that you can have nice coolant flow to the heater core even at times when radiator flow is not needed. So if it's cold outside and the radiator is consequently SUPER effective, then you might have the e-pump running so slow that your heater core can't put much heat into the cabin. And if you crank up the pump then you might over-cool the engine.

What about taking a VE water pump then cutting/re-welding the neck on backwards? So you could mount a thermostat housing to the front of the motor, rather than coming in from the rear?

 

capedcadaver:
I like the idea of switching the water pump neck. this will decrease the heat transfer from the pipe to the intake manifold, and will make the piping way easier.

Achievements so far:
I got a water/meth injection kit for 50 bucks, including the tank, the theory is that this will allow me to run extra couple pound of boost, or at least prevent breaking the pistons on the regular setting. I have got some tools to work on the Holset turbocharger. The snap ring holding the compressor housing is the biggest one I have seen. I need to fix a problem with the megasquirt, the link goes down after the engine start. I will take pictures once I have test fitted the turbocharger.

 

I see you upgraded your injector hardware as well..... Nice!

 

got it that way from Goon. I repainted it myself, but the hardware was from him.

 

Very cool project. I remember reading about it before the pics and was wondering if they have a sequential megasquirt now? last time I looked into it megasquirt was mostly batch fire with a couple sequential projects but at that point it wasn't terribly cost effective compared to a MoTec