Today, one of my friends at school was arguing with me that the 2001 Grand Prix GTP (240hp) is a better car overall than a 2001 Maxima SE. My friend owns a '98 Grand Prix SE (170hp) and he also thinks that it can kill my '99 Maxima SE from 0-60. As you may have guessed, my friend has very little knowledge about cars but thinks that he's an expert. I would like to know which car would you buy, either a 2001 GTP or a 2001 SE Maxima considering: options, quality, and performance wise. Thanks.

 

i almost bought a 2000 gtp but it only had a 3 year limited powertrain warranty,won't go over 110 mph,cheap finish won't, handle as well as a maxima and no 5speed.i did like the body style though ,a gtp is about $27,000 a loaded 5speed se is about the same ,gtp 0-60 6.7 ,max 6.7, 1/4 mile are 15.1 to 15.2 for both cars but the max is just far more reliable.oh if you have an automatic they both will rape you ,if not you'll get 2 kills at the same time.

 

Are you kidding? Of course the Maxima. For one, it's a domestic. The Max will outlast that pontiac by far. Sure the car looks nice, but it definetly aint no Maxima. Power wise, they're about neck and neck. But unlike the Max, the GTP needs a supercharger to even come close to 0-60 in 6.6 or so. Plus the GrandPrix GTP is a 2door. Go with the Max IMO.

 

Doesn't the GTP use a supercharger because it has a low compression engine? It uses regular octane gas (87) while the Maxima is a high compression engine that uses premium gas (91+).

If the GTP engine (GM's bulletproof 3800 V6) was high compression it would probably have 240hp with out forced induction.

 

the gtp also comes in a sedan,i also read that the 300m out handles the gtp,the suspension can't handle the 280 pds of torque, so much for wide track.

 

Try a search on the subjecrt (GTP) and have fun.

 

not to dissapoint you people but

uhh this time this pic of crap pontiac gtp wins over max's

those are kinda fast .. yea they are ugly..
but hey it's domestic. what do u expect

 

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<b><i>"I'd rather be hated for who I am, than be liked for who I'm not."</b></i> <i>~Alanis Morissette</i>

 

Sorry I was just futzin with my signature and meant to push preview, not submit

 

SmoothMax, the GTP comes in a 4 door. I was going to get one of these, but have been happy with my Maxima.

 

I almost bought a 2000 GTP but they were being *******s on credit (26.5% interest with the payment they quoted me) so I walked. The GTP is on an awsome platform with about 25hz stiffness. The fit and finish is up to import levels and the car handles great. The GTP has almoso been pretty reliable and the 240Hp engine is amazing. That old pushrod 3800 has been around forever and is bulletproof. They make a overdrive pulley for the blower that puts the Hp at 280 or something like that...for real cheap. The car is bigger and heavier thant he Maxima and of course it is less fun with an auto. I think that the GM auto is better than the Maxima's tho, it shifts beautifully. I have seen the cars run in the 14's so don't be quick to talk down about them. If you blow your launch that car will eat you alive. Most of them have traction control so even the most inept driver can just stomp on the pedal and turn in a mid 15 second time. If we blow the launch or 1-2 shift in the Maxima with a 5 speed and we will be looking at Pontiac taillights.

As far as the 2001's....well I think you have to chalk them up as nearly even. I have not driven the new Max but I did drive the GTP and it is nothing like the Domestics people have stereotypes of. It is built solid, no rattles, and fairly agile for outweighing the Max by a few hundred.
I think it is stupid to say all domestics are crap, years ago the Japanese cars where crap. We couldn't pull our heads out of that attitude untill the late 70's when the Domistics really started to suck and the Japanese cars pulled ahead. The domestics now are more or less on par with imports in quality depending on the models. The US automakers had thier wakupcall a long time ago and are working hard to catch up, if the imports get lazy they will be surpassed.

As far as the remark that the Pontiac needs a blower to make over 200hp....well not really. They have the Northstar derived 3.5 liter with 215 hp avail, as in the Intrigue..they just don't use it. Olds has a demo Intrique with a factory blown 3.5 putting out 250 hp. If they put that on the market there would be many surprises on the road. Check it out http://www.oldsmobile.com/index.html

 

whats so special about 215hp out of 3.5L.

The Pathfinder(5sp) is currently makeing 250hp out 3.5L WITHOUT a bower. The auto makes 240hp(they play with the tuning).

Tell me why I should be impressed with 215hp/230ft-lbs(new 3.5L intrigue) vs. 240hp/268ft-lbs.(new nissan 3.5l vq).

Sounds like a 25hp and nearly 40 ft-lbs advantage with the same size(3.5) and same cam system(DOHC)....Does Nissan sprinke it with magic powder?

Mike S.

 

GM is still experimenting with OHC engines. With the exception of Cadillac, every division still uses mostly OHV engines with high displacement and low compression ratios.

That's why it takes a 3.8L ohv V6 to make 195hp, while a Nissan 3L DOHC V6 can make up to 222hp. And that 3.8L has to be SC'd to beat the Nissan V6 and only makes 240. What happens when you sc the Nissan 3L? Output of 280+hp.

 

is now as Domestics start to catch on to the better design stuff...the Jap makers are applying their high tech toys to bigger engines.

2002 Q45

4.5L 340hp/333ft-lbs of torque. Northstar what?

Mike S.

 

GM employs you local high school shop boys.
It show when you drive em back to back.
One is a sophisticated state of the art machine-
The other is something they've been tinkering on for decades for extra credit and finally have a have decent product.
Don't try to convice anyone that the Max is the better machine.
GM needs their suckers.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by yohann
[I]I almost bought a 2000 GTP but they were being *******s on credit (26.5% interest with the payment they quoted me) so I walked. The GTP is on an awsome platform with about 25hz stiffness. The fit and finish is up to import levels and the car handles great. The GTP has almoso been pretty reliable and the 240Hp engine is amazing. That old pushrod 3800 has been around forever and is bulletproof. They make a overdrive pulley for the blower that puts the Hp at 280 or something like that...for real cheap. The car is bigger and heavier thant he Maxima and of course it is less fun with an auto. I think that the GM auto is better than the Maxima's tho, it shifts beautifully. I have seen the cars run in the 14's so don't be quick to talk down about them. If you blow your launch that car will eat you alive. Most of them have traction control so even the most inept driver can just stomp on the pedal and turn in a mid 15 second time. If we blow the launch or 1-2 shift in the Maxima with a 5 speed and we will be looking at Pontiac taillights.

I][/QUOTE until that engine stops pulling at 105mph then the max just reels em in.

 

GM employs you local high school shop boys.
This is apparent when you drive em back to back.
One is a sophisticated state of the art machine-
The other is something they've been tinkering on for decades for extra credit and finally have a have decent product.
Don't try to convice anyone that the Max is the better machine.
GM needs their suckers.

 

To say Domestic is CRAP is silly. They will all be the same very soon, in case you havent already noticed the trends. Its almost that way now. GM has its week points like any car company. I would say Nissan has one in exterior design with bland “bubble” cars. Here is an example of why its silly to say “import that domestic this”:

To strengthen its weak areas GM has formed partnerships with a number of foreign "import" auto makers. Keep in mind GM is still #1 auto maker in the world:

Its codeveloping new small cars with Suzuki and Toyota "you know...the ultra reliable import". Its teaming with subaru to gain access to that makers all-wheel-drive technology.

It gets better, it has even contacted to buy v6 engines from Honda. Its then using Isuzu's diesel engine technology for heavy duty trucks.

Are Asian cars “import”? Most of the Asia models don’t even belong to Asia now with the exception of Honda which has fought of outsiders despite the countries persistent recession. Toyota is also still strong, and the 3rd largest Motor company in the world.

None the less, Renault has bought Nissan. GM owns half of Isuzu and 20% of Suzuki. Ford controls Mazda, and DaimlerCrysler is allied with Mitsubishi as many already figured out with their similar cars on different name plates.

Auto industry is global, and cars are increasingly less really built or owned by the geographic location the name plate may suggest. BMW is just another Brand with a plant in NC, even if the car is called Bavarian Motor Works.

 

But still - business sense has nothing to do with art.
Especially with what's out there now.
Yes it may be all the same soon.
Fortunately for GM -just like in school they will be bailed out by cheating off the guy next to them.
Very clever indeed.

 

Yeah yeah the GTP is a cool looking car, But the Maxima is a hotter ride.. GTP needs that supercharger that is comes with to keep up with the maxima.. but even with that it still falls alittle behind in the Quatermile run.
Maximas are more reliable, Better warranty 5yrs 60,000mile powertran... better gas milage.. more luxury style.
Without a doubt the maxima will hold up much better then the GTP
But if you have alittle bit extra money you might as well dish out the 20th anniversary maxima. (Very Nice)
all and all MAXIMA ALL THE WAY!!..

 

GTP's are garbage!!!

 

It's amazing the bashing that goes on here. I bought a GTP, yes a GTP, and the runner up was...a Maxima! Go figure. Obviously I liked the Maxima SE enough for it to make it to the final decision. Another thing is I've always bought imports until now. I've owned an Isuzu, a CRX, and an RX7. The GTP convinced me to go 'domestic'

Why do people bash the GTP for 'needing' a SC? Guess what, it's the SAME price (actually was cheaper in my case) as a non-SC Maxima. That's like saying a Nissan 300ZX twin turbo sucks because it NEEDS the twin turbos to hit its HP spec. Come on, get real.

How much is an aftermarket SC? Since I already had a stock SC, I threw on a smaller pulley for $75. To counter the 'horrid' handling someone mentioned above, I added GM strut tower braces f/r for a whopping $20. See where I'm going here? It's pretty cheap to mod a GTP and there are tons of mods available for it.

I have nothing against Maximas, I like that you can get a 5spd and the engine is a nice one. I don't like that you can't get a 2-dr and the styling is a little less sporty IMO than a GTP. GTPs SHOULD have a 5spd option but they don't. The auto trannys however shift very well.

Obviously OHC engines are more advanced than OHVs but you still can't knock an OHV that puts out 280ft-lbs stock. With less than $125 in mods, mine is close to 300ft-lbs and 275hp. It's nothing to sneeze at. Peace.

 

I own a 90 Cougar XR7, same as the Thunderbird SC. The SC/XR7 and the GTP have been rivals since the introduction of the GTP, since they both have SC'd 3.8's and are of the GM/FORD rivalry. Let me tell you that I have a great deal of knowledge about both of these cars, and I am sorry to say that all of the trash talking is justified. The GTP for starters has one of the worst AOD trannies ever manufactured, and will not go over 90,000 miles, probably less unless you drive like a granny(many last less than 30,000). Also the fact that you got the pulley first shows that you have very little knowledge of the car you are driving. I would strongly advise you to open up your exhaust fully immediately. (high flow cats, resonator, and cat back at the least) If you fail to do so you WILL blow your headgaskets, you might anyways. The GTP also has a variety of little($250-$500) problems that go wrong from 1 mile to 100,000. They are fast stock, and have a great ability to be upgraded in all areas. If you got it to play with then by all means you got a fun car. The problem is keeping them running long enough to do so. I can tell you for a fact that after 90,000 miles you will NOT be able to use your GTP as a daily driver unless you have a considerable amount of $ to sink into it every month. If you keep it you will see what I mean. If this is what you got it for, I strongly urge you to sell it to an unsuspecting soul, and go back to the imports as fast as you can. If not you will find yourself sinking in a never ending pit of $$$. Not very many old Grand Prix's drivin around. Catch my drift. I am not trying to trash the car, as I said I have one very similar. It's just from a reliability standpoint the Max gets a 10 where the GTP/SC gets a 2. I hope I have atleast talked you into looking into this further, especially the pulley thing. You are playing with fire. I would also urge you to get a different car as a daily driver. Good luck with it, and I hope you got a freak that can prove me wrong. They are a lot of fun.
Brandon

 

just for you to know, I raced a grand prixxx supercharged the other day comin home from college...off the line he came ahead about 4 feet at about 25 to 30 mph, then after that I was ahead to 65 or maybe 60 until HE let off (probably about 60). I won't lie..those cars are fast, but if you have ANYTHING done to your Max I think you will beat it. The only thing I have done to my car is add a KnN air filter and nice spark plugs. My car is a 96 and has about 80k on it. I didn't even get the 60k maintenance done on it..did MOST of it myself. Just plugs, fuel filter and air filter. Race one man, the Max is a seriously underestimated car, you should win if you race. Mine is even an auto and I only used DRIVE. Those pontiac's....what are they thinking? All I picture is the AZTEC and I WILL WIN!!!

 

All right, the GTP is a good and fast car but imports are more reliable and more advanced, I know of a guy on this board that can run low 15's with an auto MAx and it's still normally aspirated. Granted he has a lot of mods but he isn't force feeding his ride and again, if you look at a stock auto max and a Grand Prix GT, not gtp, the max will win, I have beat many Grand Pirx w/ the n/a 3.8, everysingle one I have beat, from a dead stop to whenever. Yeah they sorta get an early lead but after my tach gets past 3500, it's over, like he led off. I have also been able to hang perfectly even(while rolling 30mph, not from a dead stop) with a 97 Impala SS while my friend, driving a slighlty modded grand prix gt was looking at our tail lights by about 65mph.

 

I have a very good friend that owns a GTP. He actually
owns the GTX (a modded GTP by SLP engineering, including
RAM air http://www.slpeng.com/2001gtx/index.html ) and
having driven it and my 99 Maxima SE, here are my
comments:

1.) The thing is fast and rides well. It does FEEL
like a bigger car because it is a bigger car.

2.) It will easliy beat MOST normally aspirated Max's
in 0-60 and in the 1/4 mile.

3.) The Max feels more "nimble" than the GTX, but that
is probably due to the 16 inch wheels vs the 17's
on the GTX.

Yes the GTP and GTX are both domestic cars, however,
they normally cost more than the equivalent Maxima, ie
GTP versus SE, both very well equipped.

I would not trade my Max for a GTP (possibly for the
GTX, though) however, both are very good 4 door sports
cars. Since I have driven both, I can easily say you
could do much worse with a car than either of these...

BB

 

I raced a gtx to 120 mph with my wife and my brother in the car, while the guy had only himself in the car. I beat him by 1 car length. He couldnt believe how fast the car was. I know its dangerous, but we raced from 0-120, and during my stop(city street) I warped my brakes. THIS WAS BEFORE I WAS SUPERCHARGED

 

Hey Vapor, when you beat the GTX, what engine/performance mods did you have at the time? Also, do all Grand Prix's come with an optional manual tranny, and do you know if the GTX you raced have a manual?

 

They may both be 3.8L engines but they are not the same engines. Actual displacement, bore and stroke and compression ratios are ALL DIFFERENT between the two. The SCs are both made by Eaton, but again they are different. Not to knock Ford, but their early to mid 90's engines, SC'd or not, did not have great gasket reliabilty

How many people do you know that have blown a headgasket on a modded 97-01 GTP? Search the owners board, you won't find a single one. The engine can easily take 16lbs of boost (although at that point, heat generation will start to counter the benefit.) Opening up the exhaust will boost HP and decrease torque. The GP GTP cats are already extremely free-flowing. Aftermarket cats will provide no appreciable benefit. 12lbs of boost from a 3.4" pulley will not do any damage to the engine or come close to blowing a gasket. I do take offense that you say I have little knowledge about my car. I've done quite a bit of research on modded GTPs.


How can you tell anyone as a fact? How much data do you have on 97-01 GTPs w/ even 60K plus on them? Obviously the tranny is a GTP's weak link in terms of longevity but to make a blanket statement is misleading at best. Certainly several people have blown trannies at <50K. Most of these people also track race the cars quite often. Torque kills trannies. It is generally accepted that pushing a GTP tranny much over 300ft-lbs will significantly affect its life. Do you have any data on life of a Maxima Xmission running at 300ft-lbs of torque? To my knowledge the only GOOD stock FWD tranny capable of 300+ is the Cadillac one.

Old GP GTPs (pre 97) had a 3.4L DOHC engine. (Go figure: an OHC.) Anyway that engine was lacking. No one will argue that. You could even find a pre GTP badge turbo (3.1L) one which again was not so hot. Not to be obvious, but I bought the latest gen GP not an older gen one.

No flames intended, just needed to clear the air.

 

I think the problem I have is the specific output of the enging. Before you said something to the 300zx TT. See....the TT did NOT need turbos to reach high hp. That engine was cranking out 222hp out of 3L STOCK 300hp with the TT.

Compare the current 3l VQ.

222hp 217ft-lbs

Current 3.8L NA.

200-205hp 225ft-lbs

I may be a little off on these numbers.

Still you will see they import engine makes just slightly less toruqe and a good deal more hp....with a much smaller engine.

I don't think the pontiac has an unfair advantage for adding the SC. They were SMART to add it. What I think is funny is how the max, albeit a 5sp, is as fast or just a tick slower than the GTP.

Interior. IMHO....maxima wins hands down. Its so classy...smooth...luxury. The Pontiac is on the other hand desperately trying to be sporty. Mounds of cheap looking plastic (all cars use plastic), Information overload, leather shift boot on the auto stick The max on the other hand is sedate. The only sport on the inside is the white guages and that nice, overly tall 5sp stick in the middle


Handling...I think the max wins again..althought probably not by much. I do see TONS running around with the 17's with 225 rubber. I think its been proven that the "wide track" theme is BS as even the counterpart buick regal has a wider track.

Exterior...its up in the air. I like the front of the GTP....I think the side of the max looks "tight"....i dislike both rears. I don't like the max's tails and the gtp's "ribbed" tails remind me of a condom box.

BTW: I like intelligent owners like slee...not kids playing games. Remember....NO CAR IS PERFECT. Everyone has their likes and dislikes.

Mike S.

 

We had everything on the car except the brakes and the sc.
It was a beige 2 door with the gtx badging, ram air badge, and scooped hood. It was a stick by the way the car sounded during shifts(however who knows) and when we were talking he had said that he had a chip, exhaust, intake, and some engine stuff. It was beige with stripes and was unlike any other grand prix that I have seen. He was really cool, and I have to admit, I liked the way the car looked. He was probably running a 3.1 or 3.8 liter? non blown. I only creeped on him between 90-120 to get the car length.

It was probably my scariest race ever also. IT was on Thanksgiving of last year around 2 in the afternoon on a 3 lane city street. Braked from 120 to 0, smoking my tires and warping my pads to stop at a light. He almost went sideways doing the same thing. Probably wont ever do that again, at least until my Big Brake Upgrade comes in. Just kidding. It was dangerous and somewhat stupid. Fat from turkey though and dazed from the pumpkin pie I ate that day, I couldnt help myself, LOL.

[Edited by vapors smx on 12-18-2000 at 07:34 PM]