grey99max

iTrader: (12)

I just photographed a few bad plugs I found in the garage. The Macro mode on my Nikon is kinda tricky, but oh well...

The dreaded "green-glaze":
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...3/Dscn1145.jpg

Who says you can't melt Iridium plugs?
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...3/Dscn1147.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...3/Dscn1148.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...3/Dscn1150.jpg

Note the damage to the center electrode - brand-new copper plug:
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...3/Dscn1153.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...3/Dscn1155.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...3/Dscn1157.jpg

These two have some exhaust valve attached:
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...3/Dscn1158.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...3/Dscn1159.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...3/Dscn1162.jpg

And a shot of my racing team: ---really---
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...heTeam2006.jpg

Fortunately, these are all from last season - no problems this year, using Sunoco 104 and shaved-ground plugs.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

And here are three shots of three plugs - two shaved, and one OEM plug, fresh from NGK. Notice how much less metal is sticking out into the combustion chamber on the two modified plugs.



http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...3/Dscn1166.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...3/Dscn1168.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...3/Dscn1169.jpg

If you got

then you should think about doing this. I gap at .032 because I get a high-speed misfire with a larger gap. After ten passes or so, I have to re-gap the plugs or replace them. I've got two new sets of 2-step-colder plugs for when the weather cools down a bit.

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

oh nice i didnt see this thread before. now i know what the shaved plugs look like.

glenmoormax

iTrader: (13)

I still wonder if shaving them does anything, no offense to the people who use them, I understand fully that its all about prevention, but like i have stated before, I just gapped mine to .35 on bkr7e's, bumped up my fuel pressure, walbro 190lph, and run 91 octance (up here at 4300+ elevation) and my 125 shot is runing like a champ.

I have come across a few other kids in UT that don't post here and they are nuts, they are sprayin 150 shot on stock fuel pumps and pump gas. That just goes to show you possibly how strong the VQ30 really is, or how dumb these kids are, one of the two.

95BLKMAX

iTrader: (10)

Mr. Streetzlegend says >>>>

Well he mentioned this on his 1st post> Which means when he DIDNT shave the plugs he was having detonation/ pre-ignition problems. Therefore, the statistics show, that it does in fact do SOMETHING to prevent detonation/ pre-ignition.

glenmoormax

iTrader: (13)

I don't know how or why grey99 metled all those plugs, I am a fairly new user to nitrous over all and like I have stated before, here at my elevation and my setup and my size of shot I can put up the argument that they don't do anything. I dn't understand how a spark placement on the plug (which is what appears to me is whats happening) changes the risk of pre detonation. If I am not detonationg now, then doesn't that prove that my non shaved plugs are doing the same "prevention" as shaved? I am just trying to still understand this concept thats all I am not trying to be ignorant.

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

Well the point is not to change the placements spark, the point is to have less amount of ground or metal exposed, because thats the part of the plug that gets the hottest and causes preignitions because the tip gets too hot and ignites without having a spark. I say if it worked for him why not stay that way, everyone has their own little tricks for everything, and it might not work for others, his also on a high shot of nitrous as well. I dont get preignition or detonation either im on 75shot, but when i do go up to 100 and i experience some of it, i will shave the plugs like grey99 and see if it works for me. you dont loose anything by it why not give it a try (IF your having the problems) if not then just enjoy your setup.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Yup, it seems like lots of people don't have problems with a high shot, but there's more to it than just the "shot". Have you run low 13's with an automatic? When you do, the engine is working a lot harder through the 1/4, and things heat up - a lot.

I had lots of damaged plugs with street gas and 100-shot runs. Then I upped the shots ( two-stage N2O) and started having serious plug problems. At 150-shot levels, I melted valves out of two engines, and lost most of the plugs at the same time.

I researched the N20/detonation/preignition issues, and found that using fuel designed for high compression and nitrous helped. I found articles from other N2O users ( BIG users 200-400 shot V8s) that melted plugs and had detonation/preignition problems who recommended cutting the ground back to remove all the metal sticking up in the combustion chamber, which often got hot enough to anneal stuff to the ground electrode ( the "green-glaze" effect). - Or blow the ground electrode right off the plug - see pictures - I have more. Notice that some of those damaged plugs are iridium electrodes, and iridium melts around 4600 degrees. That's hot.

I started using the Sunoco 104 GTX canned fuel and NGK shaved-ground plugs as seen above., and my problems went away. I could concentrate on launching with a 125-shot and holding that through the 1/4 from green light to the final trap, and not have to worry about losing the engine.

I think it's worth it, so I do it. If I have problems, I fix them. Then I push harder, and when I break something new, I'll fix that. I can't worry about what you do - I'm sharing what I learned the hard way. And I'm just getting warmed up - headers and a 3.5L or two are next. Heh.

I'll finish trying to break the beater '99 motor I'm using now, so this fall I can do the 3.5L update. Maybe I can crack into the 12s with the 3.0 - maybe it will blow. ?150-175 shot maybe? And I just drove the car to Denver and back last weekend (with the shaved-ground two-step-colder plugs) - 1000 miles and 26 MPG in three days. It's a good car, and it still teaches me things. And so do the rest of you guys.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Think model airplane engines - they have glow plugs. Your ground electrodes can get hot enough to glow, which causes detonation/preignition. Cutting off the grounds, smoothing the end and gapping on the side removes the "glow plug" effect - at least for me. Oh yeah, stock '99 ECU - no J&S safeguard..

When you push higher shots, you take higher risks. Shaving grounds and using real racing gas lowers those risks - and that's cheaper than new engines. It's your car, but spraying on the street just isn't the same as the strip.

When you get serious about spraying on the track, remember this conversation.....

If you're already spraying a 125-shot on the strip from launch to trap, never mind... but show me your plugs.

glenmoormax

iTrader: (13)

I do have model trucks with motors so i understand what you are talking about and that makes better sense. I have sprayed many times at the track but have not launched because of my bad clutch right now. I will pull my plugs out and take pics Im curious to know what they look like..

ajcool2

iTrader: (43)

I just learned alot. Continue...

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Good - you understand the "glow plug" problem....

If you're gonna take some photos of your plugs, try and make one hard run while spraying, then shut off and pull some plugs and shoot their smiling faces. If you just drive around, the insulators will "brown up" with fuel - if if you spray and then shoot, the center insulators and ground will tell the story.

If you're running lean or on the edge of detonation, the insulators will be bone-white, not a warm brown color. Also, the ground straps will have a glaze baked on, with maybe rings around the ground strap, kinda like tree rings. If either of these things are true, you have a problem. If your engine is still running, it'a a small problem - so far. Compare your plugs to my photos - maybe you can see something to compare...

If you see nothing unusual with your plugs after a good long 125-shot of spray, I may move to your state. Yes, I will be jealous. You may have some Canadian air blowing through, and that makes Maximas run better...

glenmoormax

iTrader: (13)

lol okay I will definatly do that, but I gotta finish my black leather swap, the dam* dash is taking me longer than i thought. I put these plugs in in march, so we will see how they look. Can't wait to tell you the truth.

your car also might make it to the 12's if you took off your harley davidson front plate thingy.. he he...

Also I wanted to state that you would have a hard time running a 13.3 here in UT as well, I would put 1,000,000 dollars down that you wouldn't run that here on your current set up that got you a 13.3.... I have done a 14.3 at 99 however, so I would put you around a 13.7-8??? I had a slipping clutch the whole time as well, on street tires, so it brings up another question i have...

Does a 2-step really help that much...??? whats your thoughts grey99???

DandyMax

iTrader: (7)

grey99max: I don't remember seeing it... are you running colder plugs?

Also, what wheels are those in the pic below?

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Funny - but Gail's Harley Davidson in Kansas City sponsors the KCIR.net drag strip, so with the plate, I get "special" attention at staging. I ain't no foo..

About the 13.3s - that's local altitude -around 1000 ft. I know how higher altitudes affect performance, spending some years in Socorro N.M., so you're probably right - my point was that if you spray the entire 1/4 mile with a 125-shot, the combustion chambers - and spark plugs - heat up a lot more than if you spray part way down the strip. Getting rid of the extra heat can be a problem, leading to shaved grounds and "gasoline" that evaporates as soon as it hits the ground - and does not smell like pump gas, either. Whew. I just found a local source for VP Racing Fuel StreetBlaze 103 which smells like the Sunoco 104 I use. Next time out, I'm trying 5 gallons of the 103. It's all about insurance. Ever tried any track fuel? It won't make you faster, but it could make you live longer out there.

Later Edit: Your 99MPH shows you're making good power - put in a 5th-gen clutch and some serious tires, and you'll punch into the 13s. Higher altitudes drop your NA horsepower, but spray HP is pretty constant - kinda like a blower or turbo....

The 2-step nitrous - it just gives me better manual control of spray levels. I have the first stage wired to WOT, and the second stage is on WOT through a floor switch, so I can hit it whenever I'm WOT. Until I got M&Hs, I had to stage and launch with the first stage and hit #2 when the tires could hook up. Now, I launch at 2800 with stage one at 50-shot and immediately hit stage two with 75-shot. I'll step up stage one to a 75-shot next time out. I like the immediate manual control of spray - if you prowl the streets with the bottle on, you never know how well you hook up....

I would like to see your plugs after a 125-shot - I'm still learning from everybody else, after all.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Isn't that a flattering photo? Yes, I alway run 2-step colder NGK copper-cores now, with shaved grounds and .032 gap. I learned not to trust other kinds of plugs - the photos show some of the problems I had. There are more.

I have to re-gap after 10 runs or so, so I need to work on raising coil voltage while spraying. So much fun, so little time.

The wheels are American Racing 15x8 Ford Outlaw II wheels, which cost me $68 each at a local tire store with free mounting on the 23/8.5/15 slicks (I think they're in Summit and/or Jegs). They have a 3 1/2" backspacing, which makes them stick out, but I can turn much better with the JClaw traction bars on the car. I had to grind the back side of the wheels to clear part of the brake caliper - I didn't use spacers - not safe. The car launches much better and tracks straight now - DRs with 15psi would wander across the strip, even on 7 1/2" rims. The M&Hs with 12psi now track straight.

I had my Texan grandson for a week, so we went to the strip, and he got to see Grandpa whup up on a new Mustang COBRA, as the side of the car said in really big letters. Also polished off three more street cars that night - nothing memorable - a 13.3, 13.4, 13.5, and 13.6, then the bottle went dry so we went home. Now if I had a bottle of Canadian air to go with the nitrous, then 12's are next! Hope this helps...

DandyMax

iTrader: (7)

Lol you do realize it gets hot up here in the summer right? I haven't been to the track in almost 7 weeks and the temps were in the 90's to around 100F for weeks.

Won't be long and I'll be back out there though. Hoping to hit 12's myself yet also... working on getting the suspension set up better and I need to get on the dyno and get fully tuned up (it's all just road tuning so far).

BTW, I have not used the JBars at all this year...

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

It does seem like the entire North American continent has been frying like an egg on a griddle - I havn't been on a track since the first week of July - too darn hot. This Wednesday looks like a break in the weather - it just cooled down under 100 and we promptly got 5 1/2 inches of rain in the last three days. Another wasted weekend.

Since I just got the Shift_Fast 2-stage module working, I can now spray and shift just under redline, finally. This should be interesting! I'm going out this evening to "test" spray.

Some people need the Jbars - I guess some don't. I know my car, with 40K original miles, pulled the control arms in so far the DRs rubbed on the inner fender panels - hard - the car slowed way down when it happened. It was WHF is going on??

Come on, everybody in the lower 48 knows you Canadians have the special air that makes most of you so darn quick.

DandyMax

iTrader: (7)

Yah yah whatever...

I had wheel hop last year, and the bars did help, but this season I decided to try something else first before putting them back on: I replaced my entire front end bushing set with ES polyurethane, and got new LCA's and ball joints. Now, after doing that, I can pull 1.7 sixty foots, and launch hard on the street with no wheel hop, just clean spin. The 4th gens are now 8-11 yrs old, and most have 100k+ miles on them, including mine, but for some reason, everyone forgets about their suspension components. It's just my observation, for whatever it's worth.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

My '99 max -bought new for my mom, and in my tender hands for the last three years, had less than 43K when I started using 255/50/16 BFG DRs and lots of spray. I thought about the LCAs and lower suspension, but couldn't believe that would be the problem. Opposite evidence is the shiny marks on the inside of both fender panels, where the DRs dug in. The bushings on the LCAs look chewed up on their ends, so something ain't right.

Maybe a suspension rebuild would help - a good wintertime project.. Thanks for the thought. I suspect my planned 3.5 / hotshot headers would stress the suspension even more, wouldn't it ???

The Jbars do a great job on launches - the car goes straight now, so I didn't worry about it too much, but replacing the front suspension at 48K still reads funny.....

DandyMax

iTrader: (7)

Well I'd think the rubber bushings could still be shot even though you have only 48k on the car due to you launching it and spraying all over the place... it wouldn't have to correspond to the mileage since launching and racing is not normal mileage...

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Yes, the suspension has definitely been beat on lately - but what I was talking about was that at 43K, just starting with spray, the front end already hopped badly and the DRs were pulling in - a lot. At this point, there was only the usual wear and tear on the suspension. ???

Oh well, it's still due for a rebuild - you can see fragments of the LCA bushings sticking out now.

On another topic near and dear to your heart, what's your opinion of me installing an EU in my car? Can that box be tweaked for N2O users and see some benefits??? Upper rev limit could go up, but anything else possible?

DandyMax

iTrader: (7)

Yes you're right, for starters, the rev limit can be increased and the EU could also be used for Jime's auto-shift mod. Might also have some improvements in other areas but depends what your current setup is.... what is your setup now for nitrous, a/f, and timing control?

glenmoormax

iTrader: (13)

I have searched for those ES bushings for our front ends, and I am not sure what LCA's are, could you possibly link me to wear you bought them?

DandyMax

iTrader: (7)

I got them all from Cattman (just called him up, his website seems to be WAY out of date).

The full ES set consists of:
-front sway bar bushings
-front end link bushings
-LCA (lower control arms) bushings
-cross member bushings

IIRC the total was around $80.

glenmoormax

iTrader: (13)

Thanks dandymax

Also grey, I am finishing up my rotation tonight at work then i will have some time off. I did a full black leather interior swap and so my nitrous wires are all over still, I need to put that all back in order then I will get my bottle filled, spray and show you what some Utah air is like! (No damaged plugs)

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Dual-stage NX - manual WOT switch for the first stage, a manual floor switch (gated through the WOT switch) for the second stage. Stock '99 ECU, no a/f gauge. Rest of mods in in sig. Pretty basic setup. Some day I should dyno, eh?

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Great! Spray away - a long way, if you've got the room - but also show us that B/L interior. That sounds like a serious piece of work...

DandyMax

iTrader: (7)

You could use the EU for a ton of stuff. It would give you very good control over a/f and timing, and you could set up separate and easily switchable maps for N/A and for nitrous. You could use it to switch the MEVI, as a window switch for the nitrous, or for Jime's shifter mod. Plus the 2-step launch limiter, scaling for different injectors, excellent datalogging capabilities etc the list goes on and on.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Well - that's an impressive list - and I was trying to hit the 12s without any tuning, too.......

I gathered from EU posts that Greddy finally released software that works with the VQ3.0 - anything about the 3.5 ? I guess it's time to look into the EU..

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

12's with no tuning FTW!!!!

DandyMax

iTrader: (7)

It was working on the 3.5 last summer, well over a year ago. My whole campaign with them in the past year was to get the VQ30 crank functionality added as well. It will always work for most engines via tach or ignition coil rpm pickup. That just doesn't allow timing display and as fine a control level as with the crank signal.

Greddy has not yet officially released the software, but it can be obtained in beta version... and they keep saying it will be available soon..

4thgenSuperman

those plugs look nice. lol

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

You should see the rest of them.......

4thgenSuperman

Show me so i could see.