Things not well in baggy land
10-25-2003 | 02:14 PM
#42
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Latin, what happened to the Vortech FMU?? The one with the discs correct? What are you going to use for FM now? Cartech?
Hey Dixit can you post the pics I sent you of my engine a while back, Thanks bro.
10-25-2003 | 02:20 PM
#43
http://bigdogjonx.net/fullpics/misc/...yl%202-4-6.JPG
http://bigdogjonx.net/fullpics/misc/...0cyl%202-4.JPG
http://bigdogjonx.net/fullpics/misc/...cyl%20head.JPG
Those are the three pics of Gabe's engine. Very disturbing.
Dixit
http://bigdogjonx.net/fullpics/misc/...0cyl%202-4.JPG
http://bigdogjonx.net/fullpics/misc/...cyl%20head.JPG
Those are the three pics of Gabe's engine. Very disturbing.
Dixit
10-25-2003 | 02:25 PM
#44
Originally Posted by BigDogJonx
http://bigdogjonx.net/fullpics/misc/...yl%202-4-6.JPG
http://bigdogjonx.net/fullpics/misc/...0cyl%202-4.JPG
http://bigdogjonx.net/fullpics/misc/...cyl%20head.JPG
Those are the three pics of Gabe's engine. Very disturbing.
Dixit
http://bigdogjonx.net/fullpics/misc/...0cyl%202-4.JPG
http://bigdogjonx.net/fullpics/misc/...cyl%20head.JPG
Those are the three pics of Gabe's engine. Very disturbing.
Dixit
10-25-2003 | 02:57 PM
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Well Bags, that just plain sucks. Especially since we just finished your 5-speed swap not too long ago. I think that this incident has been "building" on itself because of the amount of oil coming out of your crankcase filter/breather. Maybe that was just a forewarning of this event. Oh well, the worst is done now atleast. Again, if you need any help Bags, please let me know. You know that I will help you and who-ever out, so I have the knowledge to do mine if anything ever happens like this to me.
10-25-2003 | 03:23 PM
#46
Originally Posted by Ramius83
You know that I will help you and who-ever out, so I have the knowledge to do mine if anything ever happens like this to me.
I'll be the one who makes runs to Home Depot, Auto Zone, and Pep Boys.....!!!!
Or....Taco Bell
leave him alone Nelson you have a heavy foot too
thats how the tranny went out 
Nah my tranny went out cause of a shift into 3rd.
10-26-2003 | 07:24 AM
#49
bags, sorry about your story and situation. i had to replace my head gaskets last winter, and believe me... you want to take the engine out. it without a doubt is more work trying to get the heads off with the engine in the car (especially in ball-freezing weather without enough lighting, but that's besides the point...). if you have questions while taking the heads off, feel free to drop me questions. good luck!
10-26-2003 | 08:50 AM
#50
Originally Posted by Ramius83
Well Bags, that just plain sucks. Especially since we just finished your 5-speed swap not too long ago. I think that this incident has been "building" on itself because of the amount of oil coming out of your crankcase filter/breather. Maybe that was just a forewarning of this event. Oh well, the worst is done now atleast. Again, if you need any help Bags, please let me know. You know that I will help you and who-ever out, so I have the knowledge to do mine if anything ever happens like this to me.
Yeah I have thought about that as well.. your most likely correct.
And I am doing a little more checking but it seems it may be worth the extra couple hundred dollars to get another engine and swap it.
Rather than pull this motor tear it apart and try and fix it.
Plus I would then have a spare motor to start working on for my target WHP
10-26-2003 | 08:52 AM
#51
Originally Posted by ejj
Bags, you could drop the oil pan(s) with the engine in the car. If you have rod failure or bearing failure, you would be able to see it that way. Removing the heads really does require the motor to be out of the car.
Sorry about the bad news.
But, on the bright side, motor swaps are fun!!
Sorry about the bad news.
But, on the bright side, motor swaps are fun!!
I may be PM'ing you with questions, but one big one on my mind is...
Did you leave the tranny connected to the motor when you pulled it?
Or did you leave it in the car?
I am thinking you have to pull it out as one unit. That's how the FSM shows it
Also, how HIGH up was your car? Ballpark guess is cool.
Thanks
10-26-2003 | 08:53 AM
#52
Originally Posted by JDM4LIFE
bags, sorry about your story and situation. i had to replace my head gaskets last winter, and believe me... you want to take the engine out. it without a doubt is more work trying to get the heads off with the engine in the car (especially in ball-freezing weather without enough lighting, but that's besides the point...). if you have questions while taking the heads off, feel free to drop me questions. good luck!
Thanks I just may do that
10-26-2003 | 08:56 AM
#54
Originally Posted by LatinMax
OK Do you want the bad news or the godd news?
I know what is wrong......Trust me, I know (from experience)
You have denotated at WOT. and you will be putting in either a new engine or rebuilding the whole thing. The clanging sound is not the rod it is chunks out of the edges of your pistons.
Pull your plugs and you will find that the contacts are touching.
If you had a broken rod the motor would stop spinning completely.
The oil that is coming out of the breather tub is from the oil being pushed past the head into the valve cover from the boost.
That is exactly what my car looked like after my WOT run.
I have a question. Are you running a Vortech FMU?
And do you have the J&S setup?
I know what is wrong......Trust me, I know (from experience)
You have denotated at WOT. and you will be putting in either a new engine or rebuilding the whole thing. The clanging sound is not the rod it is chunks out of the edges of your pistons.
Pull your plugs and you will find that the contacts are touching.
If you had a broken rod the motor would stop spinning completely.
The oil that is coming out of the breather tub is from the oil being pushed past the head into the valve cover from the boost.
That is exactly what my car looked like after my WOT run.
I have a question. Are you running a Vortech FMU?
And do you have the J&S setup?
Yeah vortech and NO on the J&S.
It's possible your correct. I was using a 6:1 disk @ 8 PSI.
However, my motor has been doing some things lately that leads me to thik this was just waiting to happen.
10-26-2003 | 09:20 AM
#57
Originally Posted by on_alert
Perfect time to put in pistons and rods with an engine... see my other thread...
Unless your willing to put my on a payment plan, I can't step up to that yet.
But I am planing on doing something like that
Redmax, if your going over 8 PSI, it's my NEW suggestion
10-26-2003 | 01:32 PM
#59
Originally Posted by bags533
Well last night my car starts smoking and making a bad knocking noise...
I get of the road and pak look under the hood, about a QT of oil shot out of the crankcase filter.
There is smoke coming form near the dipstick and out of the exhaust. It is idiling very rough.
I rev it and it sounds as if 2 hammers are smaking each other.
Not at idle and not in rhythm.
So it is not looking good for the home team..
A compression test will be done very soon and then towed somewhere.
Man I hope I don't need a new motor.
I get of the road and pak look under the hood, about a QT of oil shot out of the crankcase filter.
There is smoke coming form near the dipstick and out of the exhaust. It is idiling very rough.
I rev it and it sounds as if 2 hammers are smaking each other.
Not at idle and not in rhythm.
So it is not looking good for the home team..
A compression test will be done very soon and then towed somewhere.
Man I hope I don't need a new motor.
10-26-2003 | 01:46 PM
#60
Originally Posted by Craig Mack
Bags,
How many miles did you have on your motor? Maybe it was already worn from the high mileage and just couldn't handle all that extra forced air...
How many miles did you have on your motor? Maybe it was already worn from the high mileage and just couldn't handle all that extra forced air...
131,000 + miles
jaime- I know and I Thank you for it
10-26-2003 | 07:04 PM
#62
Originally Posted by bijan gxe
VQs can go!
Bags, With the 5 speed tranny it is easy to pull both the motor and the tranny thru the top, you just have to tilt the engine a bit to get it out...easier than lifting the car. That is what I did with my swap. it was really easy...only thing is you should make sure you get a year specific engine or at least stay in your year range. I had some sensor issues in putting a 97 engine in a 95, so I ended up swapping wiring harness and everything else...good luck.
10-26-2003 | 09:14 PM
#64
Originally Posted by nupe500
Yes they can,
Bags, With the 5 speed tranny it is easy to pull both the motor and the tranny thru the top, you just have to tilt the engine a bit to get it out...easier than lifting the car. That is what I did with my swap. it was really easy...only thing is you should make sure you get a year specific engine or at least stay in your year range. I had some sensor issues in putting a 97 engine in a 95, so I ended up swapping wiring harness and everything else...good luck.
Bags, With the 5 speed tranny it is easy to pull both the motor and the tranny thru the top, you just have to tilt the engine a bit to get it out...easier than lifting the car. That is what I did with my swap. it was really easy...only thing is you should make sure you get a year specific engine or at least stay in your year range. I had some sensor issues in putting a 97 engine in a 95, so I ended up swapping wiring harness and everything else...good luck.
HMMM.. I was going under rather than over.
I was able to get the front end 2+ feet off the ground when I pulled the tranny, I was shooting for 3 feet this time.
And on the motor, I was thinking that tonight, I am looking at a 96 ( I think ) but was worried about sensors and such.
The only one is the rear 02 sensor, that I know about.
We will see... I have a 96 ECU though..lol so it may work out. And when I get the JWT ecu it will really work out.
Thanks for the info..
any more just post away.. the plan is to start next sunday
10-26-2003 | 09:16 PM
#65
Originally Posted by Redmax
Bags my goal is 14lbs
Mine as well....
actually 400+ WHP/TQ.. I am thinking 9:1 Compression and 14 PSI, 550 CC Injectors, and JWT ecu Should get me in the ball park.
10-27-2003 | 04:23 AM
#67
Originally Posted by bags533
I may be PM'ing you with questions, but one big one on my mind is...
Did you leave the tranny connected to the motor when you pulled it?
Or did you leave it in the car?
I am thinking you have to pull it out as one unit. That's how the FSM shows it
Also, how HIGH up was your car? Ballpark guess is cool.
Thanks
Did you leave the tranny connected to the motor when you pulled it?
Or did you leave it in the car?
I am thinking you have to pull it out as one unit. That's how the FSM shows it
Also, how HIGH up was your car? Ballpark guess is cool.
Thanks
Going down with it is easy, but I couldn't get the car high enough to do so. Working with the tranny and engine seperate weren't that big a deal.
If you've got questions feel free to let me know. Remember, its fun!
10-27-2003 | 10:34 AM
#69
Originally Posted by bags533
I redlined 2nd @ WOT, followed by redlining 3rd @ WOT, followed by redlining 4th @ WOT, followed by seeing how close to redline I could get in 5th @ WOT.
I made it to about 5400 RPM
That's when I heard the noise.
I made it to about 5400 RPM
That's when I heard the noise.
Do you know what your EGT got to? That's a lot of time to be spending at 9 psi and WOT.
10-27-2003 | 11:03 AM
#71
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,084
The only thing off the top of my head that all 3 cylinders would share that would cause problems if it went out is....injector rail. Maybe a total clog of rear section of the injector rail???? That sounds way out there, but that's the only thing that all 3 cyls "share".
10-27-2003 | 11:32 AM
#73
Originally Posted by JAIMECBR900
The only thing off the top of my head that all 3 cylinders would share that would cause problems if it went out is....injector rail. Maybe a total clog of rear section of the injector rail???? That sounds way out there, but that's the only thing that all 3 cyls "share".
10-27-2003 | 11:39 AM
#74
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,084
Originally Posted by Stephen Max
They also share the intake and exhaust valve locations. The pistons failed near the intake valves. Does it get hotter there? I would think the opposite would be true with fresh air coming in that side.
Yes, but if you float a valve or drop one, it is highly unlikely to take out the other two cyls. It normally would tear up the cyl connected to, but not the rest. Unless you blow a timing chain.
BTW, what do you mean near the intake valves? Each piston has a set of intake and exh valves directly above it.
10-27-2003 | 11:42 AM
#75
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,084
Judging by the extreme pitting marks on top of the piston, I would guess that another possibility would be some serious detonation issues.
Notice that the pistons all have severe pit marks from something breaking apart in the top part of the cylinder.
It is kinda weird how the cylinders so vastly differ in color. What's that a sign of?
Notice that the pistons all have severe pit marks from something breaking apart in the top part of the cylinder.
It is kinda weird how the cylinders so vastly differ in color. What's that a sign of?
10-27-2003 | 12:06 PM
#76
Originally Posted by JAIMECBR900
Yes, but if you float a valve or drop one, it is highly unlikely to take out the other two cyls. It normally would tear up the cyl connected to, but not the rest. Unless you blow a timing chain.
BTW, what do you mean near the intake valves? Each piston has a set of intake and exh valves directly above it.
BTW, what do you mean near the intake valves? Each piston has a set of intake and exh valves directly above it.
10-27-2003 | 12:48 PM
#77
It was definetely detonation, but why it happen on just the whole front bank, I have yet to figure that out. The pieces of the Piston head were stick in there and thats why you see all those marks like Gabe explained.
Dixit
Dixit
10-27-2003 | 01:01 PM
#78
"Detonation induced pre-ignition"
http://www.streetrodstuff.com/Articl...asics_VIII.php
I think detonation from too lean a mixture led to pre-ignition and blowing through/past the rings. However, as StephenMax suggested, I too think that would have occured near the exhaust port side NOT the intake.
Those pits are from pieces of metal beating the top of the piston NOT detonation. Detonation has more of a sand-blasted look IIRC.
http://www.streetrodstuff.com/Articl...asics_VIII.php
I think detonation from too lean a mixture led to pre-ignition and blowing through/past the rings. However, as StephenMax suggested, I too think that would have occured near the exhaust port side NOT the intake.
Those pits are from pieces of metal beating the top of the piston NOT detonation. Detonation has more of a sand-blasted look IIRC.
10-27-2003 | 01:23 PM
#80
Maybe not pre-ignition after all:
"The detonation, the mechanical pounding, actually mechanically erodes or fatigues material out of the piston. You can typically expect to see that sanded look in the part of the chamber most distant from the spark plug, because if you think about it, you would ignite the flame front at the plug, it would travel across the chamber before it got to the farthest reaches of the chamber where the end gas spontaneously combusted. That's where you will see the effects of the detonation; you might see it at the hottest part of the chamber in some engines, possibly by the exhaust valves. In that case the end gas was heated to detonation by the residual heat in the valve."
That DEFINITELY happened on the MIDDLE cylinder. Wouldn't TOO SMALL an exhaust or heat backing up from a restrictive turbo cause that?
Why all three would fail in the SAME place?
"Many times you will see a piston that is scuffed at the "four corners". If you look at the bottom side of a piston you see the piston pin boss. If you look across each pin boss it's solid aluminum with no flexibility. It expands directly into the cylinder wall. However, the skirt of a piston is relatively flexible. If it gets hot, it can deflect. The crown of the piston is actually slightly smaller in diameter on purpose so it doesn't contact the cylinder walls. So if the piston soaks up a lot of heat, because of detonation for instance, the piston expands and drives the piston structure into the cylinder wall causing it to scuff in four places directly across each boss. It's another dead give-a-way sign of detonation. Many times detonation damage is just limited to this."
"The detonation, the mechanical pounding, actually mechanically erodes or fatigues material out of the piston. You can typically expect to see that sanded look in the part of the chamber most distant from the spark plug, because if you think about it, you would ignite the flame front at the plug, it would travel across the chamber before it got to the farthest reaches of the chamber where the end gas spontaneously combusted. That's where you will see the effects of the detonation; you might see it at the hottest part of the chamber in some engines, possibly by the exhaust valves. In that case the end gas was heated to detonation by the residual heat in the valve."
That DEFINITELY happened on the MIDDLE cylinder. Wouldn't TOO SMALL an exhaust or heat backing up from a restrictive turbo cause that?
Why all three would fail in the SAME place?
"Many times you will see a piston that is scuffed at the "four corners". If you look at the bottom side of a piston you see the piston pin boss. If you look across each pin boss it's solid aluminum with no flexibility. It expands directly into the cylinder wall. However, the skirt of a piston is relatively flexible. If it gets hot, it can deflect. The crown of the piston is actually slightly smaller in diameter on purpose so it doesn't contact the cylinder walls. So if the piston soaks up a lot of heat, because of detonation for instance, the piston expands and drives the piston structure into the cylinder wall causing it to scuff in four places directly across each boss. It's another dead give-a-way sign of detonation. Many times detonation damage is just limited to this."