From thread # 2980781, Stephen states:
Setup is 2.87" Pulley, 370's, Z32 MAF, and A32 ECU.
If I tune to -45% on the SAFC at idle, then I get stoich (14.7:1) at idle. Of course, I wouldn't want to do this permanently.
Anyone have any ideas?
Also, if I lower my base FP to compensate with an AFPR, then my FP at high RPM also will lower accordingly, correct?
I expect then I will have to whip out he old Cartech FMU in my garage to compensate up top - right?
The one thing I do know is even with the lesser rev limiter vs the JWT, the car pulls WAY harder with the stock ECU.
And sorry I haven't been around everyone - as of last week, I'm now a Dad. It's a boy - his name is William.
Quote:
370's, Z32 maf, A32 ecu - I have experimented with this setup a bit. I found that the fuel pressure does not need to be lowered to have stoichiometric idle, and the ecu is able to provide stoichiometric afr in closed loop operation. Acceleration at a throttle setting of more than about 40% results in some leanness. WOT operation is way lean, and I had to compensate with an SAFC by adding as much as 25% from about 5000 rpm on. An adjustable fmu like the Cartech unit could be used effectively in this case.
Interestingly, I did not get the same results. I found by measuring with my LM-1 Wideband that with this setup at idle I am extremely rich (9.1:1) and very well balanced up top (11.9:1 @ 6000RPM)Originally Posted by Stephen Max
370's, Z32 maf, A32 ecu - I have experimented with this setup a bit. I found that the fuel pressure does not need to be lowered to have stoichiometric idle, and the ecu is able to provide stoichiometric afr in closed loop operation. Acceleration at a throttle setting of more than about 40% results in some leanness. WOT operation is way lean, and I had to compensate with an SAFC by adding as much as 25% from about 5000 rpm on. An adjustable fmu like the Cartech unit could be used effectively in this case.
Setup is 2.87" Pulley, 370's, Z32 MAF, and A32 ECU.
If I tune to -45% on the SAFC at idle, then I get stoich (14.7:1) at idle. Of course, I wouldn't want to do this permanently.
Anyone have any ideas?
Also, if I lower my base FP to compensate with an AFPR, then my FP at high RPM also will lower accordingly, correct?
I expect then I will have to whip out he old Cartech FMU in my garage to compensate up top - right?
The one thing I do know is even with the lesser rev limiter vs the JWT, the car pulls WAY harder with the stock ECU.
And sorry I haven't been around everyone - as of last week, I'm now a Dad. It's a boy - his name is William.
Car pulls harder because of stock timing. Is your maf on the same side as his? Matty had this setup working too IIRC.
Is your maf on the charged side?
I was stoch at idle with 400cc injectors, a32 ecu, Z32 maf. I was ~15:1 at around 4000 rpm and climbing. I hit 15% on the safc2 and it was not helping so I added a 4:1 fmu.
This resulted in setting under 10%. This was all measured on a dyno with an unkknown wideband o2.
Congrats on the new son
I was stoch at idle with 400cc injectors, a32 ecu, Z32 maf. I was ~15:1 at around 4000 rpm and climbing. I hit 15% on the safc2 and it was not helping so I added a 4:1 fmu.
This resulted in setting under 10%. This was all measured on a dyno with an unkknown wideband o2.
Congrats on the new son
The MAF is still on the Charged Side and has been there since I figured out the "rotate your MAF" trick. (see stickies).
See Bags - you got the same results as Stephen it appears - stoich down low and lean up top.
With my setup, I get rich as heck down low and perfect up top all the way to redline.....Interesting....what was your base FP at the time? Mine is 38 right now.
Also, anyone know the answer to my AFPR question above? (Although I think I figured it out with my last statement)
See Bags - you got the same results as Stephen it appears - stoich down low and lean up top.
With my setup, I get rich as heck down low and perfect up top all the way to redline.....Interesting....what was your base FP at the time? Mine is 38 right now.
Also, anyone know the answer to my AFPR question above? (Although I think I figured it out with my last statement)
Wow - the story gets stranger.....
I drove it around for about 20 miles. In doing this, I kept a close eye on the LM-1 every time I came to a stop. Slowly, the A/F was creeping upwards every mile or two....14.7:1, 15.3:1, 16.2:1, etc, etc at idle.
So I kept tuning the SAFC slowly to richen from the -40% I had it set at in order to set the A/F back to 14.7:1 (stoich). By the end of the drive, I am at 0% on all AFC Settings (I started at -40% at 1000-2000RPM).
Now I'm idling at 14.7:1 A/F and at 6000RPM I'm at 11.6:1.
I can't complain too much, because that's basically perfect - but don't quite understand what exactly is going on (ECU Learning at idle?) and why my results are different than others with this setup.
At the top of 3rd Gear on.....uh....a privately owned course.....I'm not feeling any detonation or hesitation. It's about 77 degrees outside currently.
I drove it around for about 20 miles. In doing this, I kept a close eye on the LM-1 every time I came to a stop. Slowly, the A/F was creeping upwards every mile or two....14.7:1, 15.3:1, 16.2:1, etc, etc at idle.
So I kept tuning the SAFC slowly to richen from the -40% I had it set at in order to set the A/F back to 14.7:1 (stoich). By the end of the drive, I am at 0% on all AFC Settings (I started at -40% at 1000-2000RPM).
Now I'm idling at 14.7:1 A/F and at 6000RPM I'm at 11.6:1.
I can't complain too much, because that's basically perfect - but don't quite understand what exactly is going on (ECU Learning at idle?) and why my results are different than others with this setup.
At the top of 3rd Gear on.....uh....a privately owned course.....I'm not feeling any detonation or hesitation. It's about 77 degrees outside currently.
Senior Member
Quote:
I drove it around for about 20 miles. In doing this, I kept a close eye on the LM-1 every time I came to a stop. Slowly, the A/F was creeping upwards every mile or two....14.7:1, 15.3:1, 16.2:1, etc, etc at idle.
So I kept tuning the SAFC slowly to richen from the -40% I had it set at in order to set the A/F back to 14.7:1 (stoich). By the end of the drive, I am at 0% on all AFC Settings (I started at -40% at 1000-2000RPM).
Now I'm idling at 14.7:1 A/F and at 6000RPM I'm at 11.6:1.
I can't complain too much, because that's basically perfect - but don't quite understand what exactly is going on (ECU Learning at idle?) and why my results are different than others with this setup.
At the top of 3rd Gear on.....uh....a privately owned course.....I'm not feeling any detonation or hesitation. It's about 77 degrees outside currently.
Those of you with this setup: what kind of fuel pump are you using?Originally Posted by iansw
Wow - the story gets stranger..... I drove it around for about 20 miles. In doing this, I kept a close eye on the LM-1 every time I came to a stop. Slowly, the A/F was creeping upwards every mile or two....14.7:1, 15.3:1, 16.2:1, etc, etc at idle.
So I kept tuning the SAFC slowly to richen from the -40% I had it set at in order to set the A/F back to 14.7:1 (stoich). By the end of the drive, I am at 0% on all AFC Settings (I started at -40% at 1000-2000RPM).
Now I'm idling at 14.7:1 A/F and at 6000RPM I'm at 11.6:1.
I can't complain too much, because that's basically perfect - but don't quite understand what exactly is going on (ECU Learning at idle?) and why my results are different than others with this setup.
At the top of 3rd Gear on.....uh....a privately owned course.....I'm not feeling any detonation or hesitation. It's about 77 degrees outside currently.
Using a Walbro in-tank Pump PLUS the Stillen stock under-hood Auxillary Fuel Pump. (I've had 2 Walbros blow on me and make me almost pop my engine - so I don't take chances)
I realize now that when I am running rich at idle it is during cold start - which only lasts about 30 seconds.....then I am stoich at idle.
Everything is working perfectly. Throttle response seems better than JWT as well as mid-range to top-end power.
But it's not a HUGE difference as I have heard elsewhere. Only a Dyno will really show if it's worth losing the rev-limiter to go with the stock ECU.
But for now, it seems that Z32 MAF on he charged side + 370's + 2.87" Pulley + Stock ECU works great....on my car at least.
I realize now that when I am running rich at idle it is during cold start - which only lasts about 30 seconds.....then I am stoich at idle.
Everything is working perfectly. Throttle response seems better than JWT as well as mid-range to top-end power.
But it's not a HUGE difference as I have heard elsewhere. Only a Dyno will really show if it's worth losing the rev-limiter to go with the stock ECU.
But for now, it seems that Z32 MAF on he charged side + 370's + 2.87" Pulley + Stock ECU works great....on my car at least.
Ian-
Mine was the same way as I mentioned, maybe it does just take sometime for the ECU to learn?
Alot of people did not believe my setup actually ran very well as is, but as you can see for yourself its really not to bad.
Mine was the same way as I mentioned, maybe it does just take sometime for the ECU to learn?
Alot of people did not believe my setup actually ran very well as is, but as you can see for yourself its really not to bad.
I've been taking it on runs in 80 degrees plus weather all day - watching the LM-1 like a hawk the whole time.
The car continues to run great, not hesitate, and A/F levels are well within good ranges (12.8:1 at worst in midrange under throttle, usually hanging around 11.8:1).
The car actually does pull pretty hard. It seems to be pulling harder the more I drive it....maybe ECU also is learning or coming out of limp mode from being reset recently?
I'll continue to monitor closely until I've driven it a few hundred miles.
The car continues to run great, not hesitate, and A/F levels are well within good ranges (12.8:1 at worst in midrange under throttle, usually hanging around 11.8:1).
The car actually does pull pretty hard. It seems to be pulling harder the more I drive it....maybe ECU also is learning or coming out of limp mode from being reset recently?
I'll continue to monitor closely until I've driven it a few hundred miles.
Congrats on the little one!
The car not getting a stoich reading at idle is just the ECU and o2 sensors taking time to work things out. My car maintained a stoich idle with 550's/z32 maf/a32 ECU. There is no reason it couldn't do it with 370's, just takes a bit to learn.
I would definately be logging the AF raito's, not just visual logging.
Are you getting any knock reading via your SAFC?
The car not getting a stoich reading at idle is just the ECU and o2 sensors taking time to work things out. My car maintained a stoich idle with 550's/z32 maf/a32 ECU. There is no reason it couldn't do it with 370's, just takes a bit to learn.
I would definately be logging the AF raito's, not just visual logging.
Are you getting any knock reading via your SAFC?
Does the SAFC-I have a Knock Reading function? I thought only the SAFC-II did.....I cannot detect any knock right now, but having a way to sense knock would be great.
I'll be doing some logging later this week with the NProbe and LM-1 both.
I'll be doing some logging later this week with the NProbe and LM-1 both.
can I use the stock ecu with the purple top injectors and blower. if so what else would I need.
I would have the blower, afpr, injectors, and mas air. what else if needed fuel pump?? would that be it?
and can you run the jwt edu and the z32 mass air and injectors with a stock motor? max power it not needed just safe power
I would have the blower, afpr, injectors, and mas air. what else if needed fuel pump?? would that be it?
and can you run the jwt edu and the z32 mass air and injectors with a stock motor? max power it not needed just safe power
You can start by starting your own thread with all these questions....or better yet, reading the Super/TurboCharger FAQs, then starting your own thread asking these questions if you still need to ask them.
Quote:
You know I could start my own thread but this seemed like a good question to ask here as it is about the same parts. and I have read the FAQ'sOriginally Posted by iansw
You can start by starting your own thread with all these questions....or better yet, reading the Super/TurboCharger FAQs, then starting your own thread asking these questions if you still need to ask them.
Quote:
I'll be doing some logging later this week with the NProbe and LM-1 both.
Originally Posted by iansw
Does the SAFC-I have a Knock Reading function? I thought only the SAFC-II did.....I cannot detect any knock right now, but having a way to sense knock would be great.I'll be doing some logging later this week with the NProbe and LM-1 both.
Sorry, I assumed it was an SAFC-II. I always used my knock function on my SAFC when trying out new things, like you are, to let me know if I was safe or not. I get readings on the SAFC well before it was audible knock.
I would do some data logging just because when I was first tesing my 550's/Z32MAF/A32 ECU eveything looked pretty good on the wide band visually but when i did data log there were some slight lean/rich spots for just a few hunderd rpm's that didn't show on the WB read out.
Thanks Ice!
Yep - the EU is a definate...one of these days...when I'm not paying for loads of medical bills and diapers. Man I miss the days of Dual Income....
I will do some logging of both timing with the NProbe and of A/F on the LM-1 this weekend.
For the rest of the week, until I get some more detailed readings, I'll be driving the Jetta 1.8t to work - gets better milage anyway.
I'll post my findings when I have them. I'm still pretty tripped out this works at all.....
Yep - the EU is a definate...one of these days...when I'm not paying for loads of medical bills and diapers. Man I miss the days of Dual Income....
I will do some logging of both timing with the NProbe and of A/F on the LM-1 this weekend.
For the rest of the week, until I get some more detailed readings, I'll be driving the Jetta 1.8t to work - gets better milage anyway.
I'll post my findings when I have them. I'm still pretty tripped out this works at all.....
OK - this setup is kind of weirding me out...
On the way to work this morning, on a busy road, after I'd already been driving a good 15 minutes and at a stoplight for about 60 seconds....the A/F dropped to 9.0:1 and the car sputtered and died. It wouldn't start again.
I had to unplug my Fuel pump fuse, set the AFC to really lean on low throttle at 1000RPM, then crank it until it started and burned off the excess fuel. People stuck behind me honking the whole time.
Then, putting the fuse back in, it started again and stayed running. I drove to a parking lot and looked at the A/F at idle. 14.7:1. (This is with the AFC at -40%!)
I then put the AFC back to 0% across the band, (as I was in a parking lot now and not blocking traffic and could test) and it dropped to 11:1 for a few seconds, then slowly went back to 14.7:1 - where it still sits now.
I drove it around the rest of the day. Once in a while it would drop to 11.0:1 just after stopping, then drift back to 14.7:1 after 10 seconds or so at idle.
WTF was that!?
On the way to work this morning, on a busy road, after I'd already been driving a good 15 minutes and at a stoplight for about 60 seconds....the A/F dropped to 9.0:1 and the car sputtered and died. It wouldn't start again.
I had to unplug my Fuel pump fuse, set the AFC to really lean on low throttle at 1000RPM, then crank it until it started and burned off the excess fuel. People stuck behind me honking the whole time.
Then, putting the fuse back in, it started again and stayed running. I drove to a parking lot and looked at the A/F at idle. 14.7:1. (This is with the AFC at -40%!)
I then put the AFC back to 0% across the band, (as I was in a parking lot now and not blocking traffic and could test) and it dropped to 11:1 for a few seconds, then slowly went back to 14.7:1 - where it still sits now.
I drove it around the rest of the day. Once in a while it would drop to 11.0:1 just after stopping, then drift back to 14.7:1 after 10 seconds or so at idle.
WTF was that!?
An SAFC cannot adjust fuel at idle. It's is normal, especially with this type of set up, for idle AFR to go up and down a bit because the ECU via the o2 sensors have a harder time maintaining a stoich AFR. The stalling is odd and I can't explain that....
What MAF setting are you using with the SAFC set up?
What MAF setting are you using with the SAFC set up?
02/02
Adjusting the AFC at the 1000 RPM setting definately changes A/F at idle. I can make it go up and down at will and watch it on the LM-1.
If I keep the AFC on the low throttle graph to -30% or so at the 1000RPM setting, it never drops below 14.0:1 and at idle the AFC shows a correction of -30% on screen.
As soon as I move it to 0%, it goes to 9:1 for a minute, then slowly goes back up to 14.x:1 (ECU trying to adjust to the change). It's instantaneous with me adjusting it.
Of course, I don't expect the settings to stick long-term, due to the ECU re-learning, but driving around all day today (about 90 miles) the A/F didn't change with me set to -30%....Always stayed around 14.5-15.0:1 at idle.
As soon as I adjust it richer, it shows on the LM-1 accordingly.
(-15% = 13.0:1, -5% = 12.0:1, etc.)
So I know that the AFC definately can affect idle - the problem is I'm sure it won't adjust it permanantly. Hopefully the ECU learns that 0% = 14.7:1 on it's own eventually. I've set it back to that for now and will drive it around some more and see if it floods and stalls again and see if I can find any other reasons/symptoms when it happens.
Adjusting the AFC at the 1000 RPM setting definately changes A/F at idle. I can make it go up and down at will and watch it on the LM-1.
If I keep the AFC on the low throttle graph to -30% or so at the 1000RPM setting, it never drops below 14.0:1 and at idle the AFC shows a correction of -30% on screen.
As soon as I move it to 0%, it goes to 9:1 for a minute, then slowly goes back up to 14.x:1 (ECU trying to adjust to the change). It's instantaneous with me adjusting it.
Of course, I don't expect the settings to stick long-term, due to the ECU re-learning, but driving around all day today (about 90 miles) the A/F didn't change with me set to -30%....Always stayed around 14.5-15.0:1 at idle.
As soon as I adjust it richer, it shows on the LM-1 accordingly.
(-15% = 13.0:1, -5% = 12.0:1, etc.)
So I know that the AFC definately can affect idle - the problem is I'm sure it won't adjust it permanantly. Hopefully the ECU learns that 0% = 14.7:1 on it's own eventually. I've set it back to that for now and will drive it around some more and see if it floods and stalls again and see if I can find any other reasons/symptoms when it happens.
Quote:
Adjusting the AFC at the 1000 RPM setting definately changes A/F at idle. I can make it go up and down at will and watch it on the LM-1.
If I keep the AFC on the low throttle graph to -30% or so at the 1000RPM setting, it never drops below 14.0:1 and at idle the AFC shows a correction of -30% on screen.
As soon as I move it to 0%, it goes to 9:1 for a minute, then slowly goes back up to 14.x:1 (ECU trying to adjust to the change). It's instantaneous with me adjusting it.
Of course, I don't expect the settings to stick long-term, due to the ECU re-learning, but driving around all day today (about 90 miles) the A/F didn't change with me set to -30%....Always stayed around 14.5-15.0:1 at idle.
As soon as I adjust it richer, it shows on the LM-1 accordingly.
(-15% = 13.0:1, -5% = 12.0:1, etc.)
So I know that the AFC definately can affect idle - the problem is I'm sure it won't adjust it permanantly. Hopefully the ECU learns that 0% = 14.7:1 on it's own eventually. I've set it back to that for now and will drive it around some more and see if it floods and stalls again and see if I can find any other reasons/symptoms when it happens.
Originally Posted by iansw
02/02Adjusting the AFC at the 1000 RPM setting definately changes A/F at idle. I can make it go up and down at will and watch it on the LM-1.
If I keep the AFC on the low throttle graph to -30% or so at the 1000RPM setting, it never drops below 14.0:1 and at idle the AFC shows a correction of -30% on screen.
As soon as I move it to 0%, it goes to 9:1 for a minute, then slowly goes back up to 14.x:1 (ECU trying to adjust to the change). It's instantaneous with me adjusting it.
Of course, I don't expect the settings to stick long-term, due to the ECU re-learning, but driving around all day today (about 90 miles) the A/F didn't change with me set to -30%....Always stayed around 14.5-15.0:1 at idle.
As soon as I adjust it richer, it shows on the LM-1 accordingly.
(-15% = 13.0:1, -5% = 12.0:1, etc.)
So I know that the AFC definately can affect idle - the problem is I'm sure it won't adjust it permanantly. Hopefully the ECU learns that 0% = 14.7:1 on it's own eventually. I've set it back to that for now and will drive it around some more and see if it floods and stalls again and see if I can find any other reasons/symptoms when it happens.
Yes, you can make changes to the idle with an SAFC but they will only impact AFR momentarily. They will not adjust idle AFR for any length of time, just like you have expierenced
Ah - I see your point and agree with that.
Sorry if I misunderstood.
Sorry if I misunderstood.