Turbo upgrade HX40 6-Blade (from the HX35)
I'm not sure if it's a downgrade in a boosted application. Who knows, maybe once that turbo spools up, that extra space will become a plus especially with the auto.
If you wanna do some comparisons, I do have a virgin IM under my bed. You can not have it! lol But let me know if you wanna try it out if you cant find another one.
If you wanna do some comparisons, I do have a virgin IM under my bed. You can not have it! lol But let me know if you wanna try it out if you cant find another one.
For my setup its a downgrade because I am only reving to 6200 plus auto, and from passed experience on 95blkmax's car with SSIM, i hated how much lag there was in boost and power at mid/low
Sigh, I ****ing knew it, fixing everything didnt do ****, just went for a drive and boost is same. Only thing i noticed is when it shifted into 3rd it jumped to 9psi but then started to drop. I dont ****ing get it man! it HAS to be the IC. I think I am going to bypass the IC tomorrow and go for a drive, see where boost is.
Thats true about eddie's old car. I remember the dynos. You can still feel the lack of mid-range TQ when [the new owner] gets on it now. It has a broken tranny right now by the way.
I wonder what else it could be if it's not the intercooler?
I wonder what else it could be if it's not the intercooler?
I didnt really notice a difference with the SSIM, the elbow still has the shelf so I dont think its a full blown SSIM. After fixing the leaks n new manfold n all that, the car does def pull harder, also took off the meth so a/f was at mid/high 12 so that could be part reason why it pulled so hard. No knocking.
and yeah man, that nitrous torque be hurting them 5sp's, surprised that motor still alive.
Man, has to be the IC, I cant think of anything else. Tomorrow I am going to bypass it and I better ****ing get 13psi (spring pressure), or else in putting the car in a lake.
I didnt really notice a difference with the SSIM, the elbow still has the shelf so I dont think its a full blown SSIM. After fixing the leaks n new manfold n all that, the car does def pull harder, also took off the meth so a/f was at mid/high 12 so that could be part reason why it pulled so hard. No knocking.
and yeah man, that nitrous torque be hurting them 5sp's, surprised that motor still alive.
I didnt really notice a difference with the SSIM, the elbow still has the shelf so I dont think its a full blown SSIM. After fixing the leaks n new manfold n all that, the car does def pull harder, also took off the meth so a/f was at mid/high 12 so that could be part reason why it pulled so hard. No knocking.
and yeah man, that nitrous torque be hurting them 5sp's, surprised that motor still alive.
The problem with that, is that you dont have a direct control of the WG, its better to make up the difference with your controller than running a line to the front. Also say i have a big boost leak up front, the turbo will try to make up for it on its own and overspin, while if having reference in the back, ill just see my boost gauge show lower pressure than normal and i kno there is a leak while turbo still running like normal.
nah not yet, i need a 2.5 to 3.
Today I blocked off the turbos inlet with ducktape and a clamp, then hookd up the air compressor. The gauge at back shows 10psi, while gauge at front shows about 6-7 or so. I wish I knew how fluid dynamics works, but if I am pressurizing a long pipe with many turns, how is that that both ends will have different pressure, considering there is now flow, just pressurizing the whole system.
Today I blocked off the turbos inlet with ducktape and a clamp, then hookd up the air compressor. The gauge at back shows 10psi, while gauge at front shows about 6-7 or so. I wish I knew how fluid dynamics works, but if I am pressurizing a long pipe with many turns, how is that that both ends will have different pressure, considering there is now flow, just pressurizing the whole system.
The problem with that, is that you dont have a direct control of the WG, its better to make up the difference with your controller than running a line to the front. Also say i have a big boost leak up front, the turbo will try to make up for it on its own and overspin, while if having reference in the back, ill just see my boost gauge show lower pressure than normal and i kno there is a leak while turbo still running like normal.
I was just thinking that you might be getting full boost at the compressor housing, but only 6 lbs at the IM due to IC pressure drop and long IC piping.
Today I blocked off the turbos inlet with ducktape and a clamp, then hookd up the air compressor. The gauge at back shows 10psi, while gauge at front shows about 6-7 or so. I wish I knew how fluid dynamics works, but if I am pressurizing a long pipe with many turns, how is that that both ends will have different pressure, considering there is now flow, just pressurizing the whole system.
Are you measuring boost at the IM when your driving around?
Did you fix your exhaust leaks?
That makes a lot of sense. I didn't think about it like that. I always knew that there was a good reason that a lot of turbos had a the the waste gate actuator connected directly to the compressor housing. I just figured it was due to the fact that a shorter vacuum line is simpler and less likely to fail.
I was just thinking that you might be getting full boost at the compressor housing, but only 6 lbs at the IM due to IC pressure drop and long IC piping.
If I'm reading this correctly, it kinda confirms what I was thinking. Except for the fact that that there isn't any flow or changes in air temp.
Are you measuring boost at the IM when your driving around?
Did you fix your exhaust leaks?
I was just thinking that you might be getting full boost at the compressor housing, but only 6 lbs at the IM due to IC pressure drop and long IC piping.
If I'm reading this correctly, it kinda confirms what I was thinking. Except for the fact that that there isn't any flow or changes in air temp.
Are you measuring boost at the IM when your driving around?
Did you fix your exhaust leaks?
yeah im measuring it at the IM. It dosnt make any sense to me man, hopefully someone can explain it to me, why both ends will show different pressures even if there is no flow.
Yeah exhaust leak is fixed, I welded the internal WG flap because last night after doing a bunch of WOT high gear runs, i suddenly lost boost, the JBWeld had broken off, piece of ****.
yeah im measuring it at the IM. It dosnt make any sense to me man, hopefully someone can explain it to me, why both ends will show different pressures even if there is no flow.
yeah im measuring it at the IM. It dosnt make any sense to me man, hopefully someone can explain it to me, why both ends will show different pressures even if there is no flow.
Hmmm, i dont remembr touching the TB, that makes sense. I am just going to accept the 6psi loss, might be less now with exhaust leak fixed. bu tw/e it is, its staying. untill one day in the future upgrade to water/air IC. this turbo spools so early back there, it gets like 5psi even before 3k rpm. I wish i got that upfront
Hmmm, i dont remembr touching the TB, that makes sense. I am just going to accept the 6psi loss, might be less now with exhaust leak fixed. bu tw/e it is, its staying. untill one day in the future upgrade to water/air IC. this turbo spools so early back there, it gets like 5psi even before 3k rpm. I wish i got that upfront
I'm not saying 6psi of pressure drop makes sense because it doesn't at all.
Last edited by 505max94se; Apr 30, 2010 at 03:30 PM.
why dont you roll by and ask frank, bc i would imagine, if you pressurize a long *** pipe, it should all have the same pressure everywhere on it. unless there is a small leak somewhere releasing some pressure. we used a 7 lb spring on my buddies max and we dont see more than 5.5 psi steady, using the line off the compressor housing, were just going to run it from the IM , not too worried about makig the turbo work a little more, im sure there are people pusing 30 psi in other applocations spinning them a lot more in honda/acura engines
why dont you roll by and ask frank, bc i would imagine, if you pressurize a long *** pipe, it should all have the same pressure everywhere on it. unless there is a small leak somewhere releasing some pressure. we used a 7 lb spring on my buddies max and we dont see more than 5.5 psi steady, using the line off the compressor housing, were just going to run it from the IM , not too worried about makig the turbo work a little more, im sure there are people pusing 30 psi in other applocations spinning them a lot more in honda/acura engines
I have the JS retarding 1 degree per psi starting from 10psi. So if peak timing is 24, my actual timing is about 19.
Just went for some runs and get the boost controller tuned in at 15psi, as well as some timing and afr tuning.
1st 3rd gear run, boost went to 16-17psi, afr at high 11's (occasional 12), maf voltage 4.68-4.80v
2nd 3rd gear run, dialed in the boost at 15psi then dropped to 13, afr's at mid 11's, maf voltage 4.6v(average).
After that finally tuned the boost to exactly 15psi without dropping, afr same, and voltage 4.65+. Timing is at about 18-19degree peak depending on RPM ([24deg stock peak] - [5psi * 1 degree])
From the looks of it, it does not look like the turbo is running out of breath, for now I am going to stick with 15psi and perfect it, up the afr slightly in some lower rpm areas that have 10's, then put on the meth/water and up the timing.
1st 3rd gear run, boost went to 16-17psi, afr at high 11's (occasional 12), maf voltage 4.68-4.80v
2nd 3rd gear run, dialed in the boost at 15psi then dropped to 13, afr's at mid 11's, maf voltage 4.6v(average).
After that finally tuned the boost to exactly 15psi without dropping, afr same, and voltage 4.65+. Timing is at about 18-19degree peak depending on RPM ([24deg stock peak] - [5psi * 1 degree])
From the looks of it, it does not look like the turbo is running out of breath, for now I am going to stick with 15psi and perfect it, up the afr slightly in some lower rpm areas that have 10's, then put on the meth/water and up the timing.
The turbo itself gets boost at high 2k rpm. the issue is the intercooler. and even then I dont have that much lag anymore. Eventually i gotta improve the IC though.
UPDATE;
So I finally hooked up a gauge to right before the intercooler. Put WG to spring pressure and my results:
intake manifold gets 6psi, PreIC gets 9.5psi, turbo gets 13psi(spring pressure).
based on that, I get about 3psi pressure drop from turbo to the front (PreIC).
I get 3.5psi drop from Pre to Post IC, overall about 7psi pressure drop.
Now I cant do anything about reducing pressure drop from turbo to pre IC, but I can do something about the IC, I am still researching to see what would be the best size and brand with the least pressure drop. Tomorrow I will put the gauge right after the IC (before the Intake manifold), just to verify that its actually the IC and not the piping from IC to manifold.
If I could reduce the pressure drop as much as possible I will make so much power!, im creating alot more heat than needed and its just not efficient.
So I finally hooked up a gauge to right before the intercooler. Put WG to spring pressure and my results:
intake manifold gets 6psi, PreIC gets 9.5psi, turbo gets 13psi(spring pressure).
based on that, I get about 3psi pressure drop from turbo to the front (PreIC).
I get 3.5psi drop from Pre to Post IC, overall about 7psi pressure drop.
Now I cant do anything about reducing pressure drop from turbo to pre IC, but I can do something about the IC, I am still researching to see what would be the best size and brand with the least pressure drop. Tomorrow I will put the gauge right after the IC (before the Intake manifold), just to verify that its actually the IC and not the piping from IC to manifold.
If I could reduce the pressure drop as much as possible I will make so much power!, im creating alot more heat than needed and its just not efficient.
If you go with a sameside intercooler it should knockoff a few feet of piping.
Also go with 2.5inch ic piping or atleast 2.5inch bends.
Remember each bend causes a drop and if you can not remove the bend to reduce the drop a larger bend will help
Also go with 2.5inch ic piping or atleast 2.5inch bends.
Remember each bend causes a drop and if you can not remove the bend to reduce the drop a larger bend will help
Gotta look into same side IC.
I just though of an idea, to wrap the entire charge pipe from the turbo to the intercooler. This way the temperature does not drop as it travels from the back, since temperature drops this means pressure also drops (pressure=heat). So it will keep pressure higher as well as temp and velocity. That should reduce that 3psi a lil bit, then I have to worry about what to do with the IC. Looking at the treadstone IC's
I just though of an idea, to wrap the entire charge pipe from the turbo to the intercooler. This way the temperature does not drop as it travels from the back, since temperature drops this means pressure also drops (pressure=heat). So it will keep pressure higher as well as temp and velocity. That should reduce that 3psi a lil bit, then I have to worry about what to do with the IC. Looking at the treadstone IC's
do what i did, find a mack truck or freightliner, older models, even in junk yards, which came with a true garrett core, and have someone fab up the end tanks for you. or get a real precision. did you eliminate all the rubber soft bends you had, having as much hardpipe will also help.or you can sell me the setup and man up to a forward y pipe .lmao jk Streetz,,, i know i know.
do what i did, find a mack truck or freightliner, older models, even in junk yards, which came with a true garrett core, and have someone fab up the end tanks for you. or get a real precision. did you eliminate all the rubber soft bends you had, having as much hardpipe will also help.or you can sell me the setup and man up to a forward y pipe .lmao jk Streetz,,, i know i know.
UPDATE, NEW DISCOVERY:
I underestimated the intercooler I have, Previously I had almost 10psi before the intercooler, today i hooked up the gauge to after the intercooler, and got almost exactly the same boost as before IC!!!!! that means this IC is uber, almost no pressure loss (at least not enough to notice on the gauge. probably like .3 or something). thats very good news.
The bad news. I still got that pressure drop from 9.5-10psi to 7psi at the intake manifold!!! It has to be something about the piping from IC to the intake manifold. Here are videos:
Right after the IC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzpBljZXCIo
At the Intake Manifold
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDmgJITkI_U
Can it be this crush bend?
I underestimated the intercooler I have, Previously I had almost 10psi before the intercooler, today i hooked up the gauge to after the intercooler, and got almost exactly the same boost as before IC!!!!! that means this IC is uber, almost no pressure loss (at least not enough to notice on the gauge. probably like .3 or something). thats very good news.
The bad news. I still got that pressure drop from 9.5-10psi to 7psi at the intake manifold!!! It has to be something about the piping from IC to the intake manifold. Here are videos:
Right after the IC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzpBljZXCIo
At the Intake Manifold
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDmgJITkI_U
Can it be this crush bend?
Like I said before get rid of as many of the bends as possible, reduce the total lenght of piping in you setup and run larger piping. But remember you can go too large.
read this, it just basic information but it's all the same and applies
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/eq...hod-d_804.html
http://www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/...le/True/24755/
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...2211623AAXYUw3
read this, it just basic information but it's all the same and applies
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/eq...hod-d_804.html
http://www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/...le/True/24755/
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...2211623AAXYUw3
Last edited by t6378tp; May 13, 2010 at 02:49 PM.
I wouldn't worry about those variations in boost pressure. IMO, they're completely normal.
Take a look at this article: http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/intercooler.html
Take a look at this article: http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/intercooler.html
The pressure read by a boost gauge is the pressure in the intake manifold. It is not the same as the pressure that the turbocharger itself puts out.
To get a fluid, such as air, to flow there must be a difference in pressure from one end to the other. Consider a straw that is sitting on the table. It doesn't having anything moving through it until you pick it up, stick it in your mouth, and change the pressure at one end (either by blowing or sucking). In the same way the turbo outlet pressure is higher than the intake manifold pressure, and will always be higher than the intake pressure, because there must be a pressure difference for the air to move.
The difference in pressure required for a given amount of air to move from turbo to intake manifold is an indication of the hydraulic restriction of the intercooler, the up pipe, and the throttle body.
Let's say you are trying to move 255 gram/sec of air through a stock intercooler, up pipe, and throttle body and there is a 4 psi difference that is pushing it along (I'm just making up numbers here). If your boost gauge reads 15 psi, that means the turbo is actually putting up 19 psi.
To get a fluid, such as air, to flow there must be a difference in pressure from one end to the other. Consider a straw that is sitting on the table. It doesn't having anything moving through it until you pick it up, stick it in your mouth, and change the pressure at one end (either by blowing or sucking). In the same way the turbo outlet pressure is higher than the intake manifold pressure, and will always be higher than the intake pressure, because there must be a pressure difference for the air to move.
The difference in pressure required for a given amount of air to move from turbo to intake manifold is an indication of the hydraulic restriction of the intercooler, the up pipe, and the throttle body.
Let's say you are trying to move 255 gram/sec of air through a stock intercooler, up pipe, and throttle body and there is a 4 psi difference that is pushing it along (I'm just making up numbers here). If your boost gauge reads 15 psi, that means the turbo is actually putting up 19 psi.
Last edited by 505max94se; May 13, 2010 at 03:24 PM.
Sinturion: i am using 2" piping from turbo to intercooler. then 2.5 elbow out the IC and 3" to the engine.
505max: yea there is always pressure loss but there is a point where its just too much and piping /setup is not efficient. After spending the day messing around with the gauges n ****, I think my autometer gauge is faulty! dosnt seem to be holding the pressure, I hooked the other new gauge, and looks like it gets higher boost and holds it. I am just going to leave it, at least now i know the IC is very good. eventually will get rid of that crush bend. That explains why when i put the air compressor the back (where i had new gauge) showed 10psi, but the front showed 6-7!!!! now it makes sense. i dont think its physically possible to have differnt pressures when there is no flow!
For now I am going to wrap the entire charge pipe from turbo to intercooler. that should take care of the 3psi drop before IC, maybe might even improve spool up, although thats not what im really looking for, just wanna get rid of pressure loss.
505max: yea there is always pressure loss but there is a point where its just too much and piping /setup is not efficient. After spending the day messing around with the gauges n ****, I think my autometer gauge is faulty! dosnt seem to be holding the pressure, I hooked the other new gauge, and looks like it gets higher boost and holds it. I am just going to leave it, at least now i know the IC is very good. eventually will get rid of that crush bend. That explains why when i put the air compressor the back (where i had new gauge) showed 10psi, but the front showed 6-7!!!! now it makes sense. i dont think its physically possible to have differnt pressures when there is no flow!
For now I am going to wrap the entire charge pipe from turbo to intercooler. that should take care of the 3psi drop before IC, maybe might even improve spool up, although thats not what im really looking for, just wanna get rid of pressure loss.
Looks like i had a faulty boost gauge! POS autometer, I wrapped my charge pipe from turbo all the way to the front, also put the new gauge on the pillar, i get 9.5psi, looks like it stays pretty solid. That means i am only getting lik 3.5-4psi pressure drop!!!! woohoooo!! partey!
I think the wrap actually did something, car pulls super hard, harder than before at spring pressure, 2nd dosnt catch traction at all goes from 1st, spin, 3rd lol. thats just 9.5psi, probably tonite or tomorrow will do 15psi again.
I think the wrap actually did something, car pulls super hard, harder than before at spring pressure, 2nd dosnt catch traction at all goes from 1st, spin, 3rd lol. thats just 9.5psi, probably tonite or tomorrow will do 15psi again.
Piece of crap autometer.
Anyone have a Greddy Pressure sensor on their EU or tuning device? I am trynna figure out what size orifice to put on the line to smooth out the pressure read out.
Anyone have a Greddy Pressure sensor on their EU or tuning device? I am trynna figure out what size orifice to put on the line to smooth out the pressure read out.
