2002 Turbo Maxima
04-06-2011, 10:26 PM
#1
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2002 Turbo Maxima
This is a brief thread documenting some of the aspects of my completed build. I'm too lazy to get into every detail, but I figure I should share some pics/info.
Parts:
Garrett T3/TO4E 60 Trim Turbo (Stage 3 turbine wheel)
Custom "Sideways" front manifold
Custom crossover pipe (Using stock 95' rear manifold)
Custom 2.5" Mandrel Bent Down Pipe (Too small, I know)
Custom 2.5" Exhaust (No cats)
Ebay TIAL Knock Off Wastegate (14 PSI Spring)
Ebay Intercooler
Ebay Charge Piping
OBX Oil Pan spacer (Comes tapped for oil return already)
OIL RESISTANT HOSE For oil return <--lol
Ebay Oil Feed Line
Ebay Oil Filter Sandwich plate
MAC Boost Solenoid (Same as Hondata boost solenoid)
E-Manage Ultimate
Mustang Cobra Injectors
There are other parts that I'm sure I'm forgetting, but you get the idea.
Overall, the build went well. I purchased the front manifold and crossover pipe from a guy on these forums. They were originally designed for a 1995 Maxima, so I had to modify the front manifold to make it clear my starter on my 2002.
Picture of the Feed Pipe system (Before Modification)
Picture of front manifold with bolt welded in for support
Picture of front manifold after modification and spray/wrap
Crossover pipe
Down pipe (Before wrap and spray)
Getting there
Wastegate position
Oil return
DONE (For the most part)
As stated earlier, the build went well, with a few minor hiccups along the way. I ended up having to change out that blue silicone oil drain hose for one that was better suited for oil. The oil was beginning to "sweat" through the silicone.
I still have some MINOR exhaust leaks, because I had to make all my own gaskets. I used exhaust gasket paper, but it still gets brittle from the heat and they tend to blow out.
If anyone knows where I can find a gasket for the rear manifold, that would be great. All of the gaskets at the parts store were the ring type, and this won't work because there is some tolerances that are rather large, and it will leak.
As far as the ebay wastegate, I love it. In fact, it works TOO well. With the 7 PSI spring in there, it would spike up to about 3 PSI and taper down to 1. I can only attribute this to the serious amount of back pressure that I have because of the 2.5" down pipe and exhaust. This is actually forcing the wastegate open from the exhaust side. I put two springs in there now, adding up to about 14 PSI. This gives me a spike of around 8 PSI with it tapering down to 5 at redline.
I am using my E-Manage to tune this, as well as control the boost solenoid (using one of the Sub injector channels). I will eventually add some duty cycle to the solenoid to keep the boost at around 7 all the way to redline.
As far as ignition timing, I am running a dynamic timing map. I have a MAP sensor from a K20 Honda hooked up to the E-Manage, so I can adjust timing with respect to boost. This also gives me the ability to pull a crap load of timing if I encounter an over-boost condition.
I am pulling anywhere between 5 and 8 degrees at 7 PSI, depending on RPM's. This gives me timing of about 14 degrees in the midrange, with it slowly building up to around 17 at redline.
For fueling, I am using the blue Mustang Cobra injectors, that I recently made a thread about. I had to mess with the lag time in order for them to scale properly in the E-Manage. Let me know if you need the exact values I used, as I don't remember them off the top of my head.
As far as power, it makes a hell of a lot of torque, but I feel as if I am limited by the small exhaust. The turbo hits full boost at around 3200 RPM.
This causes me to spin the crap out of second gear, until it hits about 5500 RPM's, at which time it stops spinning. This is most likely because the boost level is dropping a couple of PSI by the time it hits redline.
My goals on this system are about 350hp with the way it sits now. If I decide to run an open down pipe, I would like to hit at least 400hp.
Parts:
Garrett T3/TO4E 60 Trim Turbo (Stage 3 turbine wheel)
Custom "Sideways" front manifold
Custom crossover pipe (Using stock 95' rear manifold)
Custom 2.5" Mandrel Bent Down Pipe (Too small, I know)
Custom 2.5" Exhaust (No cats)
Ebay TIAL Knock Off Wastegate (14 PSI Spring)
Ebay Intercooler
Ebay Charge Piping
OBX Oil Pan spacer (Comes tapped for oil return already)
OIL RESISTANT HOSE For oil return <--lol
Ebay Oil Feed Line
Ebay Oil Filter Sandwich plate
MAC Boost Solenoid (Same as Hondata boost solenoid)
E-Manage Ultimate
Mustang Cobra Injectors
There are other parts that I'm sure I'm forgetting, but you get the idea.
Overall, the build went well. I purchased the front manifold and crossover pipe from a guy on these forums. They were originally designed for a 1995 Maxima, so I had to modify the front manifold to make it clear my starter on my 2002.
Picture of the Feed Pipe system (Before Modification)
Picture of front manifold with bolt welded in for support
Picture of front manifold after modification and spray/wrap
Crossover pipe
Down pipe (Before wrap and spray)
Getting there
Wastegate position
Oil return
DONE (For the most part)
As stated earlier, the build went well, with a few minor hiccups along the way. I ended up having to change out that blue silicone oil drain hose for one that was better suited for oil. The oil was beginning to "sweat" through the silicone.
I still have some MINOR exhaust leaks, because I had to make all my own gaskets. I used exhaust gasket paper, but it still gets brittle from the heat and they tend to blow out.
If anyone knows where I can find a gasket for the rear manifold, that would be great. All of the gaskets at the parts store were the ring type, and this won't work because there is some tolerances that are rather large, and it will leak.
As far as the ebay wastegate, I love it. In fact, it works TOO well. With the 7 PSI spring in there, it would spike up to about 3 PSI and taper down to 1. I can only attribute this to the serious amount of back pressure that I have because of the 2.5" down pipe and exhaust. This is actually forcing the wastegate open from the exhaust side. I put two springs in there now, adding up to about 14 PSI. This gives me a spike of around 8 PSI with it tapering down to 5 at redline.
I am using my E-Manage to tune this, as well as control the boost solenoid (using one of the Sub injector channels). I will eventually add some duty cycle to the solenoid to keep the boost at around 7 all the way to redline.
As far as ignition timing, I am running a dynamic timing map. I have a MAP sensor from a K20 Honda hooked up to the E-Manage, so I can adjust timing with respect to boost. This also gives me the ability to pull a crap load of timing if I encounter an over-boost condition.
I am pulling anywhere between 5 and 8 degrees at 7 PSI, depending on RPM's. This gives me timing of about 14 degrees in the midrange, with it slowly building up to around 17 at redline.
For fueling, I am using the blue Mustang Cobra injectors, that I recently made a thread about. I had to mess with the lag time in order for them to scale properly in the E-Manage. Let me know if you need the exact values I used, as I don't remember them off the top of my head.
As far as power, it makes a hell of a lot of torque, but I feel as if I am limited by the small exhaust. The turbo hits full boost at around 3200 RPM.
This causes me to spin the crap out of second gear, until it hits about 5500 RPM's, at which time it stops spinning. This is most likely because the boost level is dropping a couple of PSI by the time it hits redline.
My goals on this system are about 350hp with the way it sits now. If I decide to run an open down pipe, I would like to hit at least 400hp.
04-06-2011, 11:26 PM
#3
Nice, for your goals you definitely need 3". As far as a gasket, if you cannot find one, just use RTV Copper. What you do it put it on the exhaust port or the manifold, wait about an hour then bolt everything on. I think there is a cure time but that's what I used on my feedpipe. I read up on it and alot of turbo guys run rtv copper instead of a gasket.
04-07-2011, 03:22 AM
#4
nice job but something is not right with the wastegate you shouldnt need a 14psi spring to hit 5-7psi and it should not spike like that. I am pretty sure you have a ton of boost leaks so I would start there
04-07-2011, 04:14 AM
#5
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I probably do have a lot of boost leaks. For every silicone connector, I coated the lip of the pipe with a lot of black RTV before I clamped it, so I know those aren't leaking.
I'm guessing that the intercooler itself is leaking as well as some of my hoses.
And I'll check out that RTV copper. The only reason why I didn't really want to use something like that was because my fabrication skills aren't that precise, so there is a slight gap that needs to be "absorbed" by the gasket, if you know what I mean.
How much does a tiny boost leak impact the system? Like if I have a pinhole leak, will it cause severe problems, or does it have to be a pretty significant leak?
I'm guessing that the intercooler itself is leaking as well as some of my hoses.
And I'll check out that RTV copper. The only reason why I didn't really want to use something like that was because my fabrication skills aren't that precise, so there is a slight gap that needs to be "absorbed" by the gasket, if you know what I mean.
How much does a tiny boost leak impact the system? Like if I have a pinhole leak, will it cause severe problems, or does it have to be a pretty significant leak?
04-07-2011, 06:46 AM
#7
Very nice.. It almost reminds me of mine.. I see you didnt have to cut the bumper support another plus.. The wastegate thing got me scratching my head.. Cause i have a 5psi spring and it hits 5psi.. You must have some crazy leaks then..
04-07-2011, 07:44 AM
#8
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The wastegate issue is definitely a problem. I have a 5 psi spring and I hit 5 psi with no problem. I would definitely tackle the intercooler piping and try to solve all the boost leaks, large and small. Once you have those solved, it is one less thing to worry about and will help you better diagnos your wastegate issue.
04-07-2011, 08:08 AM
#9
^ yeah what he said if the welds on the feedpipe has pinhole leaks it will effect spooling also it will burn up the heat wrap paper. I will go out on a limp and say everyone has boost leaks when you 1st turbo a car so you have some too rtv or not.
And the same here I had a 10psi spring and would hit 10psi, not 12 or 14. The only time I went above 10psi was if I turned up the boost with the controller and the outside temp dropped by like 40degree's then I would hit like 11 or 12.
You really need to fix that problem cause it's causing you to over work the turbo. BTW were is your wastegate source
And the same here I had a 10psi spring and would hit 10psi, not 12 or 14. The only time I went above 10psi was if I turned up the boost with the controller and the outside temp dropped by like 40degree's then I would hit like 11 or 12.
You really need to fix that problem cause it's causing you to over work the turbo. BTW were is your wastegate source
04-07-2011, 10:15 AM
#10
Awesome job! I like how your thinking (with the tune and timing), good stuff. The bandclamp you have on the cross over will most likely leak, I have one on my downpipe and I basically bought this aluminum tape from discount, wrapped both pipes at the connection, then put the band clamp over it, I dont get leaks anymore.
Most likely part reason you stop spinning at 5500 rpm is because of the intake manifold, look at my dyno thread for more info about that, it looks like the FWD manifolds arent too boost friendly at that rpm and kills power.
Most likely part reason you stop spinning at 5500 rpm is because of the intake manifold, look at my dyno thread for more info about that, it looks like the FWD manifolds arent too boost friendly at that rpm and kills power.
04-07-2011, 10:38 AM
#11
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My wastegate source is a nipple on the pipe right after the turbo.
As far as the wastegate, something is definitely wrong, but I think it's a combination of things. I don't think the springs are rated accurately. I also think a big contributor is my exhaust back pressure.
With the springs in there now, it hits 8psi at 3200rpm and tapers down to 5 or 6 at redline.
I used to have a decent sized leak in my feed pipe, and that caused my turbo to spool at llike 4500rpm, but I fixed that. I still have a small leak right at the turbo inlet flange, so once I fix that, I will see how well it holds boost.
And why should I move my MAF away from the throttle body? Turbulance?
Ill go over all my intercooler pipes and check for leaks today.
As far as the wastegate, something is definitely wrong, but I think it's a combination of things. I don't think the springs are rated accurately. I also think a big contributor is my exhaust back pressure.
With the springs in there now, it hits 8psi at 3200rpm and tapers down to 5 or 6 at redline.
I used to have a decent sized leak in my feed pipe, and that caused my turbo to spool at llike 4500rpm, but I fixed that. I still have a small leak right at the turbo inlet flange, so once I fix that, I will see how well it holds boost.
And why should I move my MAF away from the throttle body? Turbulance?
Ill go over all my intercooler pipes and check for leaks today.
04-07-2011, 11:22 AM
#12
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Awesome job! I like how your thinking (with the tune and timing), good stuff. The bandclamp you have on the cross over will most likely leak, I have one on my downpipe and I basically bought this aluminum tape from discount, wrapped both pipes at the connection, then put the band clamp over it, I dont get leaks anymore.
Most likely part reason you stop spinning at 5500 rpm is because of the intake manifold, look at my dyno thread for more info about that, it looks like the FWD manifolds arent too boost friendly at that rpm and kills power.
Most likely part reason you stop spinning at 5500 rpm is because of the intake manifold, look at my dyno thread for more info about that, it looks like the FWD manifolds arent too boost friendly at that rpm and kills power.
Yeah, on that band clamp, I coated the whole inside of it with high temp RTV. Also, the pipe slips a good inch into the other pipe and it's a pretty tight fit.
I seafoamed my car to find out where the leaks were (my looking for smoke).
I have a nice leak at my turbo and a TINY leak at the wastegate.
I have a stock manifold with the VIAS deleted, NO SSIM.
I saw your thread about the uneven bank afr, so I might SSIM my manifold, or eventually get a Z33 manifold.
04-07-2011, 11:41 AM
#13
Thanks man.
Yeah, on that band clamp, I coated the whole inside of it with high temp RTV. Also, the pipe slips a good inch into the other pipe and it's a pretty tight fit.
I seafoamed my car to find out where the leaks were (my looking for smoke).
I have a nice leak at my turbo and a TINY leak at the wastegate.
I have a stock manifold with the VIAS deleted, NO SSIM.
I saw your thread about the uneven bank afr, so I might SSIM my manifold, or eventually get a Z33 manifold.
Yeah, on that band clamp, I coated the whole inside of it with high temp RTV. Also, the pipe slips a good inch into the other pipe and it's a pretty tight fit.
I seafoamed my car to find out where the leaks were (my looking for smoke).
I have a nice leak at my turbo and a TINY leak at the wastegate.
I have a stock manifold with the VIAS deleted, NO SSIM.
I saw your thread about the uneven bank afr, so I might SSIM my manifold, or eventually get a Z33 manifold.
Yeah, the rear (firewall) bank runs lean till I think about 5k, then the front bank starts leaning as RPMs go up, the front bank AFR is very linear and seems to get better flow than the rear at high rpm. Rear gets better flow at lower rpm's
04-07-2011, 09:31 PM
#14
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Do you think the SSIM will help the uneven bank AFR?
What do you think about increasing the boost to around 9 PSI to get some more power out of this. Considering that I have a 2.5" exhaust, I would probably still be under 400hp.
From what I can gather, it is the power/torque that will blow an engine rather than the boost level.
I would probably keep the boost around 7 psi from 0-5000rpm, and increase it to 9psi after 5000rpm, this way I wont have too much mid range torque.
The other guys who have the SFR turbo kit on their 5.5 gen seem to be running around 8psi, and I don't think they have any control over timing, but I could be wrong.
What do you think about increasing the boost to around 9 PSI to get some more power out of this. Considering that I have a 2.5" exhaust, I would probably still be under 400hp.
From what I can gather, it is the power/torque that will blow an engine rather than the boost level.
I would probably keep the boost around 7 psi from 0-5000rpm, and increase it to 9psi after 5000rpm, this way I wont have too much mid range torque.
The other guys who have the SFR turbo kit on their 5.5 gen seem to be running around 8psi, and I don't think they have any control over timing, but I could be wrong.
Last edited by Unklejoe; 04-07-2011 at 11:59 PM.
04-08-2011, 05:16 AM
#15
Do you think the SSIM will help the uneven bank AFR?
What do you think about increasing the boost to around 9 PSI to get some more power out of this. Considering that I have a 2.5" exhaust, I would probably still be under 400hp.
From what I can gather, it is the power/torque that will blow an engine rather than the boost level.
I would probably keep the boost around 7 psi from 0-5000rpm, and increase it to 9psi after 5000rpm, this way I wont have too much mid range torque.
The other guys who have the SFR turbo kit on their 5.5 gen seem to be running around 8psi, and I don't think they have any control over timing, but I could be wrong.
What do you think about increasing the boost to around 9 PSI to get some more power out of this. Considering that I have a 2.5" exhaust, I would probably still be under 400hp.
From what I can gather, it is the power/torque that will blow an engine rather than the boost level.
I would probably keep the boost around 7 psi from 0-5000rpm, and increase it to 9psi after 5000rpm, this way I wont have too much mid range torque.
The other guys who have the SFR turbo kit on their 5.5 gen seem to be running around 8psi, and I don't think they have any control over timing, but I could be wrong.
I know I didn't make that post terribly clear, but to answer the first part of your question, yes I believe it will help with uneven AFR (especially in a FI situation). There's quite a bit of turbulence caused at the crossover/open section of the VIAS delete that causes extra heat and slower cross chamber response (due to the increased internal pressure and pressure waves caused by the valvetrain opening and closing). In a NA application this is unnoticeable because the valvetrain events determine the necessary amount of air that needs to be drawn into the manifold. However, in a FI scenario, we're cramming air in that doesn't want to be there and then pi$sing it off by not telling it exactly where to go.
NA application:
Air says,"oh **** I'm getting sucked in! AHHH!! 'Least it will be a quick death."
FI application:
Air says, "oh **** I'm getting sucked in! WTF was that propeller BS?!? I got knocked into all those people..." The slightly heated/angry air reaches the throttle body and says, "Why the hell are you making me go in there that fast?!" Then it says, "Oh, now you want me to sit crammed in here like the DMV on a Friday and wait with all these bastards... Oooh, the other lane is open... D@mnit, now it's full... Oooh, that one's open... ****!!! OMFG there's another whole room of this crap??!!! I'm sweating my ***** off in here. I'm going to die of heat exhaustion before you kill me... Might as well go out Buddhist style and set myself on fire... dammit i pre-detonated!!!" (his wife replied, "like that isn't a common occurrence
) 
Sooo... The best idea would be to have an IM that keeps everything as orderly as possible (an ITB setup like the GTR's have for example) or ensuring the air gets into the engine as quickly as possible (like the 3.0 DET intake manifold). The Z manifold it a good idea too, but, I would venture to say that a SSIM would perform as well (if not better at higher boost levels) because of the way the air enters a common chamber and basically slams into the intake runners allowing for a more direct flow into them. I personally have a VIAS delete setup that I will be changing over to a SSIM (possibly today if time allows...).
04-08-2011, 05:16 AM
#16
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Do you think the SSIM will help the uneven bank AFR?
What do you think about increasing the boost to around 9 PSI to get some more power out of this. Considering that I have a 2.5" exhaust, I would probably still be under 400hp.
From what I can gather, it is the power/torque that will blow an engine rather than the boost level.
I would probably keep the boost around 7 psi from 0-5000rpm, and increase it to 9psi after 5000rpm, this way I wont have too much mid range torque.
The other guys who have the SFR turbo kit on their 5.5 gen seem to be running around 8psi, and I don't think they have any control over timing, but I could be wrong.
What do you think about increasing the boost to around 9 PSI to get some more power out of this. Considering that I have a 2.5" exhaust, I would probably still be under 400hp.
From what I can gather, it is the power/torque that will blow an engine rather than the boost level.
I would probably keep the boost around 7 psi from 0-5000rpm, and increase it to 9psi after 5000rpm, this way I wont have too much mid range torque.
The other guys who have the SFR turbo kit on their 5.5 gen seem to be running around 8psi, and I don't think they have any control over timing, but I could be wrong.
04-08-2011, 10:06 AM
#17
http://forums.maxima.org/7996661-post33.html
I know I didn't make that post terribly clear, but to answer the first part of your question, yes I believe it will help with uneven AFR (especially in a FI situation). There's quite a bit of turbulence caused at the crossover/open section of the VIAS delete that causes extra heat and slower cross chamber response (due to the increased internal pressure and pressure waves caused by the valvetrain opening and closing). In a NA application this is unnoticeable because the valvetrain events determine the necessary amount of air that needs to be drawn into the manifold. However, in a FI scenario, we're cramming air in that doesn't want to be there and then pi$sing it off by not telling it exactly where to go.
NA application:
Air says,"oh **** I'm getting sucked in! AHHH!! 'Least it will be a quick death."
FI application:
Air says, "oh **** I'm getting sucked in! WTF was that propeller BS?!? I got knocked into all those people..." The slightly heated/angry air reaches the throttle body and says, "Why the hell are you making me go in there that fast?!" Then it says, "Oh, now you want me to sit crammed in here like the DMV on a Friday and wait with all these bastards... Oooh, the other lane is open... D@mnit, now it's full... Oooh, that one's open... ****!!! OMFG there's another whole room of this crap??!!! I'm sweating my ***** off in here. I'm going to die of heat exhaustion before you kill me... Might as well go out Buddhist style and set myself on fire... dammit i pre-detonated!!!" (his wife replied, "like that isn't a common occurrence )
Sooo... The best idea would be to have an IM that keeps everything as orderly as possible (an ITB setup like the GTR's have for example) or ensuring the air gets into the engine as quickly as possible (like the 3.0 DET intake manifold). The Z manifold it a good idea too, but, I would venture to say that a SSIM would perform as well (if not better at higher boost levels) because of the way the air enters a common chamber and basically slams into the intake runners allowing for a more direct flow into them. I personally have a VIAS delete setup that I will be changing over to a SSIM (possibly today if time allows...).
I know I didn't make that post terribly clear, but to answer the first part of your question, yes I believe it will help with uneven AFR (especially in a FI situation). There's quite a bit of turbulence caused at the crossover/open section of the VIAS delete that causes extra heat and slower cross chamber response (due to the increased internal pressure and pressure waves caused by the valvetrain opening and closing). In a NA application this is unnoticeable because the valvetrain events determine the necessary amount of air that needs to be drawn into the manifold. However, in a FI scenario, we're cramming air in that doesn't want to be there and then pi$sing it off by not telling it exactly where to go.
NA application:
Air says,"oh **** I'm getting sucked in! AHHH!! 'Least it will be a quick death."
FI application:
Air says, "oh **** I'm getting sucked in! WTF was that propeller BS?!? I got knocked into all those people..." The slightly heated/angry air reaches the throttle body and says, "Why the hell are you making me go in there that fast?!" Then it says, "Oh, now you want me to sit crammed in here like the DMV on a Friday and wait with all these bastards... Oooh, the other lane is open... D@mnit, now it's full... Oooh, that one's open... ****!!! OMFG there's another whole room of this crap??!!! I'm sweating my ***** off in here. I'm going to die of heat exhaustion before you kill me... Might as well go out Buddhist style and set myself on fire... dammit i pre-detonated!!!" (his wife replied, "like that isn't a common occurrence
) Sooo... The best idea would be to have an IM that keeps everything as orderly as possible (an ITB setup like the GTR's have for example) or ensuring the air gets into the engine as quickly as possible (like the 3.0 DET intake manifold). The Z manifold it a good idea too, but, I would venture to say that a SSIM would perform as well (if not better at higher boost levels) because of the way the air enters a common chamber and basically slams into the intake runners allowing for a more direct flow into them. I personally have a VIAS delete setup that I will be changing over to a SSIM (possibly today if time allows...).
Good thing I have a SSIM already for my future turbo build...
04-08-2011, 10:31 AM
#18
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http://forums.maxima.org/7996661-post33.html
I know I didn't make that post terribly clear, but to answer the first part of your question, yes I believe it will help with uneven AFR (especially in a FI situation). There's quite a bit of turbulence caused at the crossover/open section of the VIAS delete that causes extra heat and slower cross chamber response (due to the increased internal pressure and pressure waves caused by the valvetrain opening and closing). In a NA application this is unnoticeable because the valvetrain events determine the necessary amount of air that needs to be drawn into the manifold. However, in a FI scenario, we're cramming air in that doesn't want to be there and then pi$sing it off by not telling it exactly where to go.
NA application:
Air says,"oh **** I'm getting sucked in! AHHH!! 'Least it will be a quick death."
FI application:
Air says, "oh **** I'm getting sucked in! WTF was that propeller BS?!? I got knocked into all those people..." The slightly heated/angry air reaches the throttle body and says, "Why the hell are you making me go in there that fast?!" Then it says, "Oh, now you want me to sit crammed in here like the DMV on a Friday and wait with all these bastards... Oooh, the other lane is open... D@mnit, now it's full... Oooh, that one's open... ****!!! OMFG there's another whole room of this crap??!!! I'm sweating my ***** off in here. I'm going to die of heat exhaustion before you kill me... Might as well go out Buddhist style and set myself on fire... dammit i pre-detonated!!!" (his wife replied, "like that isn't a common occurrence )
Sooo... The best idea would be to have an IM that keeps everything as orderly as possible (an ITB setup like the GTR's have for example) or ensuring the air gets into the engine as quickly as possible (like the 3.0 DET intake manifold). The Z manifold it a good idea too, but, I would venture to say that a SSIM would perform as well (if not better at higher boost levels) because of the way the air enters a common chamber and basically slams into the intake runners allowing for a more direct flow into them. I personally have a VIAS delete setup that I will be changing over to a SSIM (possibly today if time allows...).
I know I didn't make that post terribly clear, but to answer the first part of your question, yes I believe it will help with uneven AFR (especially in a FI situation). There's quite a bit of turbulence caused at the crossover/open section of the VIAS delete that causes extra heat and slower cross chamber response (due to the increased internal pressure and pressure waves caused by the valvetrain opening and closing). In a NA application this is unnoticeable because the valvetrain events determine the necessary amount of air that needs to be drawn into the manifold. However, in a FI scenario, we're cramming air in that doesn't want to be there and then pi$sing it off by not telling it exactly where to go.
NA application:
Air says,"oh **** I'm getting sucked in! AHHH!! 'Least it will be a quick death."
FI application:
Air says, "oh **** I'm getting sucked in! WTF was that propeller BS?!? I got knocked into all those people..." The slightly heated/angry air reaches the throttle body and says, "Why the hell are you making me go in there that fast?!" Then it says, "Oh, now you want me to sit crammed in here like the DMV on a Friday and wait with all these bastards... Oooh, the other lane is open... D@mnit, now it's full... Oooh, that one's open... ****!!! OMFG there's another whole room of this crap??!!! I'm sweating my ***** off in here. I'm going to die of heat exhaustion before you kill me... Might as well go out Buddhist style and set myself on fire... dammit i pre-detonated!!!" (his wife replied, "like that isn't a common occurrence
) Sooo... The best idea would be to have an IM that keeps everything as orderly as possible (an ITB setup like the GTR's have for example) or ensuring the air gets into the engine as quickly as possible (like the 3.0 DET intake manifold). The Z manifold it a good idea too, but, I would venture to say that a SSIM would perform as well (if not better at higher boost levels) because of the way the air enters a common chamber and basically slams into the intake runners allowing for a more direct flow into them. I personally have a VIAS delete setup that I will be changing over to a SSIM (possibly today if time allows...).
I'm going to do an SSIM soon. I figure it can't hurt. If it doesn't help my power drop off at 5000rpm, it will at least help my uneven bank AFR.
The guy with the SFR hit like 355whp at 8psi. He couldn't get any higher until he changed his exhaust. I don't know if he had the stock exhaust before or what. I also don't know how big the down pipe is on the SFR kit, but I do know that it goes over the transmission, so that limits the size. Also, their wastegate is routed back into the exhaust.
With my wastegate dump and 2.5" exhaust, I am hoping to hit around the same power at 8PSI.
What I think will happen is that I will reach a point where increased boost does not give me any more power. All that increasing the boost will do is increase torque and give me a fatter curve at that point.
I am probably going to shoot for 7psi until 5000rpm, at which time it increases to around 8 or 9. I am using a TO4E turbo, so it's probably not as efficient as the one on the SFR kit.
04-08-2011, 11:11 AM
#20
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The MAF does max out at 5.10 volts at like 4500 RPM. Should I clamp this or just leave it?
04-08-2011, 12:16 PM
#21
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hahahaha thats good man.
I'm going to do an SSIM soon. I figure it can't hurt. If it doesn't help my power drop off at 5000rpm, it will at least help my uneven bank AFR.
The guy with the SFR hit like 355whp at 8psi. He couldn't get any higher until he changed his exhaust. I don't know if he had the stock exhaust before or what. I also don't know how big the down pipe is on the SFR kit, but I do know that it goes over the transmission, so that limits the size. Also, their wastegate is routed back into the exhaust.
With my wastegate dump and 2.5" exhaust, I am hoping to hit around the same power at 8PSI.
What I think will happen is that I will reach a point where increased boost does not give me any more power. All that increasing the boost will do is increase torque and give me a fatter curve at that point.
I am probably going to shoot for 7psi until 5000rpm, at which time it increases to around 8 or 9. I am using a TO4E turbo, so it's probably not as efficient as the one on the SFR kit.
I'm going to do an SSIM soon. I figure it can't hurt. If it doesn't help my power drop off at 5000rpm, it will at least help my uneven bank AFR.
The guy with the SFR hit like 355whp at 8psi. He couldn't get any higher until he changed his exhaust. I don't know if he had the stock exhaust before or what. I also don't know how big the down pipe is on the SFR kit, but I do know that it goes over the transmission, so that limits the size. Also, their wastegate is routed back into the exhaust.
With my wastegate dump and 2.5" exhaust, I am hoping to hit around the same power at 8PSI.
What I think will happen is that I will reach a point where increased boost does not give me any more power. All that increasing the boost will do is increase torque and give me a fatter curve at that point.
I am probably going to shoot for 7psi until 5000rpm, at which time it increases to around 8 or 9. I am using a TO4E turbo, so it's probably not as efficient as the one on the SFR kit.
Ummm yea, had a h3ll of a time finally getting past the 355 mark. And it was the exhaust. Now its all 3".
04-08-2011, 01:28 PM
#24
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What do you think could cause this?
How much power is the 2002 MAF good for anyway?
Ignore the AFR reading. My wideband got disconnected during the pull.
The MAF is the light purple line at the top. It's kind of hard to see.
Last edited by Unklejoe; 04-08-2011 at 01:33 PM.
04-08-2011, 03:20 PM
#25
The SSIM MIGHT help a little with the uneven bank flow but something tells me, it wont. Also remember that 96blkmax had a SSIM and had the same drop in power at the same RPM as me with just vias delete, I think the design of the manifold is just not good enough, even with the shelf removed. I think the z33 manifold would be the best solutions before going custom. Meximax showed power increase to redline with the z33 manifold, he did have cams though (which contributes to that high rpm power, but we know that the z manifold can support power at those rpm's), and there are plenty of Z33's with stock manifolds in the 400, 450whp+ range. I have yet to see a 3.5 with FWD stock manifold (ssim or not) make over mid/high 300.
04-08-2011, 04:25 PM
#26
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The SSIM MIGHT help a little with the uneven bank flow but something tells me, it wont. Also remember that 96blkmax had a SSIM and had the same drop in power at the same RPM as me with just vias delete, I think the design of the manifold is just not good enough, even with the shelf removed. I think the z33 manifold would be the best solutions before going custom. Meximax showed power increase to redline with the z33 manifold, he did have cams though (which contributes to that high rpm power, but we know that the z manifold can support power at those rpm's), and there are plenty of Z33's with stock manifolds in the 400, 450whp+ range. I have yet to see a 3.5 with FWD stock manifold (ssim or not) make over mid/high 300.
I read somewhere that the Z33 IM causes one of the cylinders to run leaner than the rest for some odd reason. You ever hear of that?
04-08-2011, 04:49 PM
#27
I don't know. It starts to max out at about 4500RPM and stays maxed out until redline. The map sensor on my E-Manage outputs an absolute value, so basically subtract 14 from the value and that is the boost. So at 4400RPM I am running 7PSI with the MAF reading 5.08 volts.
What do you think could cause this?
How much power is the 2002 MAF good for anyway?
Ignore the AFR reading. My wideband got disconnected during the pull.
The MAF is the light purple line at the top. It's kind of hard to see.
What do you think could cause this?
How much power is the 2002 MAF good for anyway?
Ignore the AFR reading. My wideband got disconnected during the pull.
The MAF is the light purple line at the top. It's kind of hard to see.
Last edited by t6378tp; 04-08-2011 at 04:54 PM.
04-08-2011, 06:05 PM
#30
I'll look into the Z33 IM. It doesn't seem that hard to modify it to fit properly. Seems like most people weld a new pipe on it with a flange for the throttle body.
I read somewhere that the Z33 IM causes one of the cylinders to run leaner than the rest for some odd reason. You ever hear of that?
I read somewhere that the Z33 IM causes one of the cylinders to run leaner than the rest for some odd reason. You ever hear of that?
04-08-2011, 07:33 PM
#31
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One possibility of why the MAF is being maxed out would be a leak after the MAF which is causing a bunch of air to flow through it but not enter the engine. I'll check the coupler after the MAF.
Thanks man. People are always like WTF when they find out I'm boosted.
04-11-2011, 04:46 AM
#32
You need one of these. http://www.treadstoneperformance.com...+Hitachi+Style
Remove the stock maf tube and install this.
Remove the stock maf tube and install this.
04-11-2011, 10:44 PM
#34
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I could. Seems like a tedious process though. I don't care if my MAF maxes out as long as there are no negative side effects to it. It preserves my everyday drivability.
I will tune my E-Manage with respect to MAP anyway, so it kind of takes over where the MAF leaves off...
I will tune my E-Manage with respect to MAP anyway, so it kind of takes over where the MAF leaves off...
04-12-2011, 06:39 AM
#35
I could. Seems like a tedious process though. I don't care if my MAF maxes out as long as there are no negative side effects to it. It preserves my everyday drivability.
I will tune my E-Manage with respect to MAP anyway, so it kind of takes over where the MAF leaves off...
I will tune my E-Manage with respect to MAP anyway, so it kind of takes over where the MAF leaves off...
04-17-2011, 09:45 PM
#38
Seems like a decent build. Definitely figure out those exhaust leaks and take out those wastegate springs and set it up correctly before you overboost. Also work on the SSIM, helps a lot.
Last edited by OHH NOES; 04-17-2011 at 09:50 PM.
04-18-2011, 01:51 PM
#39
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So now I'm running 7psi from 3500rpm, then it slowly ramps up to 8psi after 4400rpm (right around peak torque).
Seems to be holding boost fine now. I guess I either got the wrong springs with my Ebay wastegate or they just were really off spec.
I also fixed all of the exhaust leaks. I am still lacking some top end power, so I am going to look into intake manifold options like you said.
BTW your max looks nasty
04-18-2011, 04:22 PM
#40
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Awesome! Love seeing new Turbo Max's! It's set up a lot like Nismomaxct's with the downpipe running in front of the trans & the airfilter facing the firewall, we also used a 4th gen set-up (PFI kit) & I was cussing nissan for putting the 6-speed starter where they did.
I'm still kinda confused how you are maxing out the maf but not going into limp mode without having it clamp with e-manage? Just a heads up, when/if you do max it out you are going to freak out & think the motor went pop
I'm still kinda confused how you are maxing out the maf but not going into limp mode without having it clamp with e-manage? Just a heads up, when/if you do max it out you are going to freak out & think the motor went pop