USRacer900

Stock wheels are 15" and I'm thinking about going to a 17" rim, primarily for asthetic reasons. How much will this affect the ride qualities?? I have a 96' I30.

Thanks for any input.

darrick

i have a 99 max and I went with a 17 stock nissan wheel the ride is a lot nicer but I did lose some power ,hope this helps

95CustomMaxima

iTrader: (5)

It wont affect the ride quality too much if you are on stock suspension, if not ride quality can be rough depending on the suspension. I wouldn't get any tire with a smaller size than a 45 series tire. I have a 235-45-17 tire and wouldnt change the size at all.

-Nick

Max Noob

iTrader: (5)

get 17's with 50 series tires, ride quality wont go down much if your on stock suspension.. but like darrick says. u will lose a small amount of power casue of heavier wheels and more tire weight.

warning though, aftermarket rims without a drop looks nastyyy.. even if they are super dope wheels.IMO.

Frank Fontaine

I disagree with this dude on all counts. There are no 50's that are +1, +2, or +3 for a Maxima. You'd be 45 on 17", 40 on 18". Yes, wheel weighs more than rubber. But when my 5'11" g/f rides in the car, she adds 130 lbs., and I DO NOT feel any difference.

2nd, the trainer I used at the gym has a dropped 330Ci with 19's. The whole Koni deal. Another dude has a M3 with factory 19's. The dropped 330 is clearly lower, and you know what? It looks gh**, not right like the stock M3.

Because of current pricing, I would recommend going 15" to 18"--just respect the proper sizing. You will not notice any degradation of your ride, and that's due to tire technology. For those of you who doubt, how the **** can a 235/40-18 have the same load capacity as a 215/55-16? Lots less rubber in the 18.

Dave B

Tires almost always weigh more the rim. Also, I believe a 225/50R17 is compatible on a 4th gen. It's .4" taller than stock, but nothing to really throw the speedometer off by more than maybe 2%. I can guarentee you that you will be slower (both ET and MPH) running on 18s that weigh the same as the stock 15s. There's no way around basic physics. I can also assure that you are slower with your 130lb girlfriend riding along.

I don't know where you live or what kinds of roads you drive on, but going to larger rims will always introduce a little more harshness. The heavier and larger the tire/rim combo, the worse. There is definately a difference in ride compliance when switching from 15s to 17s. Bumps, cracks, tar strips, etc are both louder and more pronounced with larger rims. Again, you can't get around it. Lower profile tires have much thicker sidewalls and less air. All this translates to a less forgiving setup when you hit a bump. Late model cars that come with big rims are designed to run the big rims. Even Dodge had to rework the Dodge Rams suspension so it could compensate for the 20" rims extra unsprung weight and rotational mass.

Physics my friend, physics.


Dave

Frank Fontaine

Don't bother applying to MIT grad school. RIM weighs more than tire. Metal vs. rubber. e=mc2 does not make a physicist. And this advice is coming from a lawyer.

Dave B

What do I get if I prove you wrong


Dave

mchne

iTrader: (3)

this argument makes no sense...
there's all different types of wheels with all different types of weights, and the same goes for tires.

http://www.miata.net/faq/wheel_weights.html

http://www.miata.net/faq/tire_weights.html

it depends on what you buy..
looking at these charts I'm seeing some 19" rims that weigh 16 lbs.,
some 18"'s that weigh 20+ lbs.,
and some 15" rims that weigh 22 lbs.

ch13f

Just to chime in... the stock wheel/tire combo on a 5th gen 2k2-3 SE is something like 50-55 pounds, the stock wheel is about 23 pounds. Where is all that extra weight coming from?.. And that is actually a fairly bad example, when you can easily get 17" wheels that weight less than 16 pounds, the rubber definatly weighs more.

Dave B

Very true, but Mr. Fountiane is trying to tell us that regardless of wheel weight, the tire will always be lighter. As taken from the S4 forums:

For those who are somehow obsessed with unsprung weight reduction. More
specifically rotating mass weight reduction. Following are just tire
weight comparison from several tires I compile from each corresponding
web sites:

Tire weight in lb.

Size S-02 P.Pos. SP-9000 SP-8000 Proxes T1-S RE-71

225/50-16 24 23.4 26 22.7 26.0
245/45-16 24 25.1 26.5 21.6 26.0
225/45-17 24 22.5 n.a. 20.9 30.0
245/40-17 26 23.9 n.a. 22.3 25.0
245/40-18 27 24.8 24.9 24.0 n.a.
275/35-18 30 27.2 26.5 25.6 n.a.


As we can see in the above, tires are actually quite heavy. Most aftermarket 17" rims weigh around 20-24lbs. By looking at the small sample above, we can see that most 17" tires will actually outweigh the rim. I'm running 17" ASA LS5 rims and Sumitomo HTR 235/45s. According to my Fed-Ex shipping slip, the ASAs weigh 17lbs and the HTRs weigh 24lbs. Hmmmmm.....it can't be, rubber is lighter than metal Let's not forget the rubber in tires is very dense, thick, and has multiple steel belts running through it.


Dave

mchne

iTrader: (3)

what he said.

Frank Fontaine

[COLOR=Black]

Don't they teach the concept marginal in HS? Why do you fellas always deal in absolute terms? Like the "how many miles to a tank" thread that never goes away. Nah, it's too complicated to calculate MPG, let's just eyeball it.

When you do a +2 from 215/55-16 to 235/40-18, you gain 2" of rim and lose 2" of rubber. The overall diameter is the same, and you gain unsprung weight. We are talking about DENSITY--rim is more dense than tire. You want to reduce unsprung weight? Leave the factory 15's on.

If you really think that rubber "definatly" weighs more, I just hope that we get a new Pres. who appropriates more money to our educational system.

minsbang

I totally agree with your "warning".

mzmtg

iTrader: (11)

4 words:

Too Late To Backpedal.

Dave B

What chu talkin bout, Willis? Me edmacation was good.

The rubber on tires really does weigh more than most metal on rims. Are you forgetting most rims are made out of cast/pressure cast/forged aluminum? I'd bet you'd be very surprised to see how light a one cubic inch piece of cast aluminum is compared to a piece of one cubic inch of tire rubber. Typically there is little weight gain (1-2lbs) in the same rim going from a 17 to an 18 to an 19 because the spokes are only lenghtened about a .5" and the rim gain a slight bit of circumference. High performance tires are heavy because:

1) They have thick and wide rubber treading

2) They have thick rubber sidewalls to keep the tire responsive and to keep the tire from flexing over bumps and munching the rim. There is where most of the ride harshness is transmitted from.

2) They have multiple steel belts to keep the tire from exploding under extreme and lengthy high speed driving


Dave

EL PAALO

Tires often weigh less than wheels.
Especially when you're talking about 16" and up wheels/tires. Especially when you're talking aftermarket rims.

My 17x7 Enkei RF1's weighed ~18 lbs each. Total weight when combined with Nitto 450 235/40 = 40lbs. You do the math.

My 17x7.5 Stern Aguzze S07R's weighed 13.8 lbs. Total weight with Yokohama A520's at each corner was ~35 lbs.

In general, 205 to 235/40 17's weigh 20-27 lbs each. There are many 17" wheels that weigh less than that. The pricey forged wheels weigh alot less than that.

If you're talking about old steel factory wheels vs small tires, the wheels do weigh more than the tires, but we're talking about newer cars/wheels and larger sizes. Larger diameter tires, even though they have a shorter sidewall, weigh more - typically. This is assuming you're comparing same model tire to same in different size.

EL PAALO

In reply to the original question:
Yes, ride quality will be degraded. How much it's degraded depends on tire and wheel selection. You want to stay at least as light as stock and go with a tire with a softer sidewall to maximize comfort. Softer sidewall tire does not perform as well as stiff, but any 235/45 should perform better than stock anyway. Your turn in and cornering abiltiy should increase drastically. You should also be more stable at increased speeds.

zarf747

Just to try and bring some closure to the discussion of which weighs more wheel vs tire. The weight isn't the biggest deciding factor, its where it is applied, an 18" rim and tire combo has the weight concentrated farther away from the axle causing a larger torque on the axle, the 15" has the weight concentrated closer to the axle which allows it to turn easier. Like Dave B said, its all about the physics.

Bman

I'd like to add that while some relatively expensive wheels are lightweight because they're designed to be, the average, run of the mill 17" or 18" wheel is noticably heavier and some fancy "bling-bling" wheels are even worse. Same goes with tires. Some are relatively light, while others like those Kumho 712's are a few pounds heavier. From some data I collected regarding 235/45-17 tires, they generally seem to be roughly the same to slightly (like 1 or 2 lbs) heavier than the average cast aluminum wheel, not lighter.

Unsprung weight is different than sprung weight in terms of handling effect.

You cannot compare the appearance of a lowered/unlowered BMW 3-series (check the wheel gap on those Bimmers!) directly to that of a lowered/unlowered 4th Gen Maxima. Apples and oranges.

Ride will usually be negatively impacted because you're reducing the sidewall height and usually increasing unsprung weight as well.

Other things to consider are "tramlining" (tendency for wheels to follow ruts in the road) and steering kickback, both of which usually get worse because the tire is less compliant, often a bit wider (up to you though), and more performance oriented. Apparently tires with multiple uninterrupted ribs in their design are worse for this.

Logan91VE

this man has the right idea! Torque(Nm)=force(N)*distance from centre(m).

james9793

So the latino community had it right all along......



I'm gettin' 13's!!!!!!!!!

mrglynis

Ok i've got a 99 GXE. I went from stock 15in steelies to 2k2 17in SE 6-spoke rims.

You will definetly notice a difference. You will feel more of the road. Every little bump, or rock in the road. Its not as bad as it sounds, really. But you will notice it.
Yes you will accelerate slower. If you care about the .1 sec your losing, do some engine mods.

Handling is GREATLY improved. I'm running on Pirelli P6000 Z rated tires, and they're light years better than my old ones.

Also i should note that my car is not dropped. So i'm pretty sure if you were to lower your car, it would be a bit rougher, as someone earlier mentioned.

I'm also running 225/50/17. The calculated speedo error is 1.4% Just a little FYI.

Well thats pretty much how my rim upgrade went. YMMV. Good luck.

icemanhg3

This thread is HILARIOUS!!!