strike two....
want to try for three?

 

For another 2-3 inches of metal-and a slight re-tooling couldn't break the bank for a superior sound and product.

 

2-3 inches of mandrel bent tubing is not cheap.
one mandrel bend is 20 bucks. from some pics it looks like there's going to be quite a few more bends.

these are not press bent...they are mandrel bent.

also when you pay for the item you're paying more for the R&D and setting up the jig.

it's not as easy as you think...and yes would you pay an extra 50 bucks for the y-pipe for slightly minimal change in power? i'm going to say no.

 

wow..ok now I don't have to think...I have MADE a few of these (I'm not off the turnip truck)-economies of scale (sales) would spread this mod to production out to raise price (conservative est) $10 bucks over the product lifecycle (est. 5 years for 3rd-6th gen). You want to make the whole tooling and production cost up in 6 months..do ya..not realistic?? $50 increase is outrageous and suppliers/manfs get MANDREL (yes I know they are mandrel) tubing VERY cheap (ask me how I know)....matter of fact already going to mention it to WSP.

 

5 years? you think it'll sell for 5 yrs?
i don't think WSP sold the product for 5 years (3rd gen y-pipe). it was a struggle to get a GD of 20 people.

ok smart guy...how many of these you think they are going to sell?
then is WSP willing to make these for $10 bucks more?

oh yes...since you KNOW EVERYTHING then go ahead and make it for $210 bucks yourself and see how many people will buy it...since mandrel bends at where you're at seems to be cheaper than the rest of the world. go ahead...DO IT PROVE ME WRONG!

if it helps i'll even let you do the GD here just for S&Gs...

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Tell Dallas i said hi and happy holidays for me.

 

Ibhehas10ypipessittinginhisgarageand0$sent..

 

Unbelievablely angry....wow....there's never going to be enough evidence to convince you period. Believe what you want-no one is changing YOUR mind EVER. You're right and that's it.

Merry Christmas bro.

 

Piling on....cool. Buddy to the rescue.

 

OP I like what you did. Have it on my car also. Makes it sound alot better !! I noticed it also doesn't DRONE anywhere near as much on the highway. I used to get a real bad frequency at around 2800-300 rpm right where I cruise. Once EL it went completely away. Wish I would have dyno'd it before and after.

We had the FXT (Forester Turbo) guys do equal length to get rid of the boxer rumble on the Subie engine (FXTs are a big sound chamber) and it was amazing how the EQ units even seemed like it quieted the NVH at all speeds. The flat 4s sound like my street bikes at full song. I think the EL idea should be universal for all headers-right from day one. One of my old rides...miss it:

 

the only evidence that will convince me is when it happens. do you know how many bench racers come in here and talk about doing this and that...at the end of the day nothing happens. you can talk about this and that...at the end of the day it's just that...talk. well talk is cheap..and accomplishes nothing. you talk a good game and telling me i'm wrong...well if that's the case then i welcome you to prove me wrong. telling me that i'm wrong is nothing w/o any proof and you failed to prove me wrong. you're telling me that you're at a magical place that can get mandrel bends cheap...well where were you when i (and the rest of the forum) was looking for cheap mandrel bends? you're telling me that you made a few of these...well then please make 10 and start a GD for our forum members instead of "calling WSP" and asking them to do it. if you say that it'll sell for 5 years and it's a easy thing to do then please do it..from your post it sounds like a good money maker...why not jump on that? what's holding you back? when you make them and sell them i'll eat my own words and make a public apology to the entire forum to you. i know when i'm wrong and i don't have a problem stating that....how about you?

angry? pleaseee i don't get angry on the forum...if i did i wouldn't be here. i'm far from it.

buddy to the rescue? i didn't ask him to come here and comment....he's here and other are here on their own free will and if they side with me then that means you failed to make a good case for your product/idea to the forum.

 

can you take pics of your set up?

 

This is VERY hard to read.

I am NOT A MANUFACTURER. I do my own work and have made EL headers on a few of my cars -ex-racer SCCA Nat'l champ in 1999. Its a well thought out hobby for me.

Just because things aren't mass produced and haven't been done or are NOT putting up or shutting up doesn't mean the process isn't feasible for WSP (3rd-6th gen) or any other small companyt to do it before the Chinese Manfs., do.

I do re-organizaton and recompetes of Government Contracts for the government agencies and DOD (missle building, ships, electronics) and that is one part of the problem with recapturing our lost work (overseas) it CAN BE DONE cheaper than people admit if they change their perspective.

I'm done. Have a great Christmas.

 

Being "buddies" has nothing to do with my statement, my statement comes from the 5 years of daily activity in the 3rd gen forum, Me and most other long term members have seen over the years how these "hey lets get a GD going on some performance or whatever mod" threads go. yep, you guessed it, they fail miserably. lots of people come in saying."hell yeah!!, put me down for one!!" Then in the end, the member making the part/s has all these parts made, and no $$ from the "hell yeah!" people.

Sadly, the 3rd gen forum has become the basic maintenance forum, modding these old cars has long since faded into the past, only a small handful are still modding them, the other 99.99% of the 3rd gen forum members just trying to keep them on the road, basic maintenance has become the "mod" these days in here.

Take the advice we give as you may, but we are just trying to save you some trouble..

 

WOW! I think i am going to rewind that and watch it agian.

 

how is it so hard to read? everything is spelled correctly. sentence structure is there. maybe enlarge the window or text on screen?

this as well is a hobby for me too. you're telling me it's 10 bucks more to make, then either you make them as a manufacturer or have someone accept your proposal.

who said it can't be done? i said that it can be done but with extra work involved it will come with extra cost. i say roughly the cost would be $50 more but you said $10.

unlike the government, companies like WSP needs to sell a product for some kind of profit for their time, labor, and materials. Do you think for an additional $10 more per unit WSP is willing to make this large change?

also unlike the government we're not talking about 50,000 units of a mass produced part. this is at the most 20-30 units in a given year. that's an additional $300 dollars a year to make a ELYP that includes additional flanges, bends, R&D.

keep in mind this also needs to make additional power and not just make the car sound better. so there's a little marketing involved to sell the product.

i'm sure you're good at what you do for the government but it doesn't seem like you know the first step to running a profitable business.

if you still find this difficult to read then i recommend going back to school for reading classes.

Happy HOLIDAYS...(there's more than just Christmas)

 

Thanks.

I found out that I had my gas pressure way too high and it was acting like a cutting torch even on A-1.

 

if someone could get an equal length y-pipe produced along with a set of "matching" headers and the price was only 50 bucks over the wsp pacesetter combo id buy it today

but the i think the biggest problem is the manufacturers arent willing to make anymore 3rd gen parts because there isnt enough demand for them..... sure they can make a profit off of it but is the money the make off that product gonna be worth the time they spent developing it..... time they coulve spent developing something else for another car with more of an aftermarket demand

we have really only one company making a quality exhaust kit for the third gen we have one company making quality camshafts and we really only have 3 options for performance struts i suggest buying the kit warpspeed already has before your forced to go custom like this guy....atleast then you wont have to worry about $10 or $50

 

agreed...no company is willing to make anything for the 3rd gens anymore. a lot of these mods are usually home made grassroot experiments which i think is a good idea that you guys are still doing that. i encourage these mods that you guys come up with but going to a company and asking them to make this part for $10 bucks more will get a loud laugh and a quick click of the phone.

 

ohhhh...that's sounds like water sizzling on a hot pan. on the gas reg that i have the **** is so loose that i can bump into it and it'll turn.

 

Here's video of what it sounded like before it had an equal length y-pipe.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...ideoid=7363500

 

 

wait 505max arent you the crazy **** who took a sawzall to your intake manifold for a couple jumps in high end power is this the same car?

 

Your post is a long run on sentence in a coagulated mass of text. Your insults about schooling mean nothing to me..if you're going to be like that then you're arrogant and I have a hard time with your perspective (hence I disagree). I do contracts for Government purchasing "economics" "of" "scale" applies to small and large quantity deliverables based upon a functional equation of inital captial outlay for re-tooling and re-coup over time.

WSP can make the change and re-coup costs over time through all of 3rd-6th gen have a better product and make a small % back each unit. Its not a "large" (better word is significant) change no matter what you say. Same flanges different center section on the rear bank R&D perhaps small, but its equal length with limited room.

Profitable business?? Oh brother-c'mon with that. I was a trial lawyer for business and contract litigation and BRP for 10 years-I've seen bad and good business practices. I don't need more reading classes after law school and business school and I certainly take your word with a LARGE grain of salt on advice.

I built and drove a car that won the SCCA national championship I KNOW ABOUT POWER adders. Stop trying to bully people on here its really old ( I searched your posts).

I tried to be civil about this ..now go ahead and have your last word. And let's STOP walking over this guy's thread.

Its Christmas in my house (no offense to any other folks reading this).

 

I said 3rd-6th gen ...most of 4th-6th uses similar application/design (clearances are similar).

 

I wasn't spitting at you. Its the old football player in me. I defend friends also. NO biggie I was really making a broad statement about 3rd-6th gen products. 4th -6th really with small clearance issues can be used interchangeably ( from what I recall in other information). But speaking about productions scales WSP could make a prduction change and absorb costs from other sales or simply spread the cost over a long extrapolation. I don't know WSP capital or expense burdens but the change to design in not earth shattering.

 

Sounds much better now. I bet the car feels smoother too (SOTP).

 

I wouldn't say that I'm crazy, just willing to try new things.

I did remake the IM and it ran great. The top end felt really strong and the low end was ALOT better than I expected. After a couple of hard shifts, it broke because my WAI wasn't secured which caused forces to the IM that weren't accounted for. I plan to reconstruct it with only aluminum and I'll either braze it or have it tig welded.

Aren't you the crazy guy who is obsessed with VG pipe dreams.

 

Seat Of The Pants??

 

ok you win...it's a long run on sentence. the periods don't mean anything to you. you know those little red lines under your text? that means you spelled the word wrong. you're touting that you're well educated and can't spell words correctly. how does a contact look with all the typos in there? don't criticize my "run on sentence" when you can't piece the letters together to get a word spelled correctly mister contract.

now you're telling me 3rd to 6th gen now. why not throw 7th gen in there too? why not the altima? they make parts for dodge diesel too...you want them to make a ELYP for them too? so you want WSP to redesign all their Y-pipes? for all 10 dollar increase on each one? (which is why we're even having this discussion in the first place) BTW (<--that means By the way) there's already equal length Y-pipes out there for other gens so you missed the boat with that.

You being a trail lawyer makes you a good business man. I see that's how it is. A lawyer is master of all BS...which i say you're doing great right about now. you're one step above a tow truck driver, we call you when we're in deep doo doo. stop throwing out irrelevant information to make yourself look good because it's not working. what is being a lawyer have anything to do with this y-pipe discussion?

first you said you built it...now you drove it too...wow you're the man.
i'm not pushing you into this discussion. who's being a bully? are you unable to handle a discussion on why 10 bucks will not make enough profit for a company to significantly change their product offering? i have plenty of posts here and is an active member on the forum and see and read what products are out there. you on there hand has less than 50 posts in 5 years...how active are you as a member?

who's not civil? at no time a curse word was thrown. at no time was a rule broken. are you unable to handle the fact that you're wrong? like i said in my previous post...if i'm wrong i'll admit it point blank. maybe it's the lawyer in you that you claim to be or maybe the government worker that you feel superior than all OR maybe it's the SCCA race car driver that you are that won all these races...what's next? are you a heart surgeon too? did you find the cure for cancer?

this is related to the thread...it's regarding the y-pipe so we're not walking over anyone's thread.

it's Christmas in your house...so i guess it's Christmas for everyone because what you say goes.

i'm here all day...

 

OKAY EVERYBODY SHUT THE **** UP REAL QUICK

i just got off the phone with warpspeed

mr dallas himself said that he would be willing to experiment with an equal length y-pipe on an old vg he has lying around

he says hes can have his best mandrel guy (best guy hes ever met according to him) work on it this week and after christmas he says it should be possible for him to get one into production by Jan 1st if the bend is physically possible (which we all know it is because this guy just did it)

he has 4th gen equal length y-pipes he says it should be easy as long as people are wililling to pony up the dough the only reason he hasn't already done it is because gains will be small compared to extra dough he has to charge and he just figyured people weren't interested he also says he cant dyno it but he knows it will be an overall increase in power

the pipe will cost more than the original $199 but he can gaurantee it wont be over $299 i suggest you all give him a call if your seriously interested

ps. seriously means you already got the dough

 

Tell Dallas $209 shipped should do it as per our fellow govt contract, lawyer, race car driver.

i'll create a new thread here for the GD if there's enough interest.

 

Yeah with 10,000+ posts you sure are...

 

Yeah sorry.

 

 

Search SCCA results under SCCA Pro solo nat'l champion 1999 STR class. Mr. Prima Donna.

 

I just wanted to re-post this for the people who may have not seen it.

 

With 4th-6th gen already in production he probably can do it quick and cheaper than a completey new design. Guess the verdict will be renderd based upon his profit margin......hahahha

 

I did read somewhere that the stillen elyp made less power than a wsp uelyp on a 4th gen. I don't believe it.

 

dude poor 505max has no idea wat has happend to his thread im startin a new one...

 

i could care less what class or race you won.

we're talking about the additional $10 dollar ELYP for WSP...stop derailing the thread w/ your nonsense.

are you going to call WSP and tell them that they can make it with only $10 more with your lawyer/contract negotiating skills? go go go!!!