Been riding on Ksport coilovers for a few weeks and it's great. I'm already planning to get some serious chassis stiffening but I'm wondering what people think about adding a sway bar to this setup. I'm never at a track but I drive like hell on the street, so I'm looking for a good improvement in response and feel without making the car unsafe.

Any thoughts?

 

The rsb does make the car unsafe in a way. You just never know when the back end will break away and lose traction. It's great, til you fish tail. Definately harder to regain control once you lose it. I drove through the winter with my sway bar on. Bad mistake. The rear end loses traction too easy with it. This winter, it's coming off til the spring time. But when the road is dry, without a speck of dust on it, you definately notice the improvements the rsb gives to your car's handling characteristics. It makes the car sit flat during hard cornering..hense the sudden loss of traction in the back. You don't feel it ahead of time, til it's too late.

 

I'd like to delve into this a little bit... just how fast do you have to be going for the back end to break away? Is this something that happens at 80mph or 120? How sharp is the corner, like a parkway entrance/exit ramp? Finally, are a lot you guys in the habit of taking it off in the winter? I'm interesting in buying one and I'd like to hear about everyone's real-world experiences. Thanks.

 

You do have to kinda push it a bit on clean surfaces. But hit a patch of dirt or sand, and you WILL kick out the rear end.

I definately will be taking it off for the winter this time. Taking a turn onto a street at 5mph would kick the rear end out sometimes, on snow that is. It's not for the snow.

I see you're in for a Progress RSB GD. That's what I have installed in mine. You'll love it in the summer. You'll see how bad it is in the winter. Just try it out once during a snowy day. You'll know what I'm talking about.

 

cool, thanks for the input!

 

Thanks from me too. I'm pretty happy with how predictable and safe my setup is right now, and with the kind of handling it enables, I don't want to ruin that predictability.

Although I'm sure if Spaniard were here, he'd tell me otherwise....

 

Maxima's have a beam suspension connecting both struts with a solid 3" peice of metal...I think a .5" RSB is pointless unless you have independent rear shocks.

 

Umm, wrong. It helps alot. Do not post if you do not know.

 

RSB isnt that bad if u know ur car.....it adds huge improvement esp. if u do any kind of Auto-X or RoadCoarse....its gives the the car controlable oversteer...well atleast to me.....ur car isnt going to magically fishtail on you dont worry.....to me its one of the best suspension upgrades short of true coilovers.....and with a RSB u can run ur front struts stiffer on the auto-x or roadcourse and still have a lil bit of oversteer to help u through turns....but for you on the street u will be fine just take it easy and learn how ur car reacts with it before u hit the thruway ramps at 75

 

I had my Progress RSB on for the winter with an otherwise stock suspension and had relatively few problems (I did have four dedicated snow tires on 15" rims though). I've got the Ksports now as well and the car is as flat and smooth around curves as it can possibly be for a grocery getter. Only improvement I could make now would be some chassis stiffening like subframe connectors. I drive aggressively and I have yet to have the rear end kick out of me on a curve. I was out driving last night when I took a wet on ramp with a tight compound curve where I pushed the car to the limit and received only minor understeer - not the oversteer you would expect with a RSB.

 

it might be the way ur coilovers are set up....if the front is stiffer than the rear then u still may ahve understeer

 

There was a thread a while back, where members with more than a 2" drop reporting that the handling WITHOUT the sway bar on was better than with the RSB on. On a mild drop, 1-1.5", the RSB helps the feel a lot. After that point, it becomes useless, and hinders handling performance. NOTE: This is from reading another thread, NOT personal experience. PM NJMAXSELTD or something like that. Ahh, here we go. I saved the thread: http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=407249 Look through the posts and read the other thread that was linked.

 

Great to hear from someone with Ksports!

With 50% stiffer springs in front than in back, on a chassis that's already hugely predisposed to understeer, I'd expect the Ksports to cause heavy understeer (as has been said). I do see that at the limit, but I guess I'm not fast/ballsy/stupid enough cuz most of the time on the street it doesn't seem to push very much at all.

What I do get is a little squirm sometimes if I have to brake in a corner, and that's really the only time I feel like it could break loose (unless I saw it around like an a$$). Will I break loose with a sway bar?

What about hitting a bump in the middle of a turn?

 

You can't just say springs that are 50% stiffer in front vs rear are gonna create understeer. There's much more to it like actual wheel rates. If you brake hard and turn simultaneously the back end is gonna step out no matter if you have a 2nd RSB or not. Oh, and bumps in the middle of a turn are gonna wake you up no matter if you're stock or modded back there.

 

Thanks for the links. Good info on the dynamics. The only thing is that all those users had stock-style aftermarket spring-and-strut setups. These coilovers create a much different handling balance, so adding a RSB would have a different effect. I need to know what that is.

 

Thanks for clarifying. The only thing that worries me is that I'm not entirely confident I can handle the rear if it really steps out. Think of me as a good street driver who's got good sense and is a novice at the track. Just looking for sharper response and a livelier-feeling car without overstepping the bounds of my abilities, you know? It has to be really intuitive, forgiving, and easily recoverable. Will it still be those things with a 2nd RSB?

 

Um going around a turn, which end steps out first? If your car handles neutral, you might not want a RSB. If you car still understeers, you might want one. You are speaking in a bit too general of terms

 

The front definitely steps out first, by a good margin. The only thing I'm afraid of is the back end getting skittish -- it needs to be forgiving if I bomb a highway ramp at 50 and suddenly have to hit the brakes in the middle of it. The squirming I get under moderate braking in a hard corner is the only hint of oversteer I ever get, and it's just that -- a little squirming. I also know I've been able to recover from minor tail slides, but that was on stock springs. I'm just not confident that I'd be able to recover if the rear actually steps out on this suspension.

Is that better?

 

The RSB was a HUGE improvement on my car. I noticed the effects the second it was put on and I love it. I have never had any problems with fishtailing...except when it was intentional.

 

Nice. How do you drive?

 

FWIW - I've never gotten the rear to step out on highway driving. Granted I wouldn't panic brake/stomp on a sweeping freeway offramp - that's just asking for it.

IMO this whole thing about the RSB causing oversteer is way overblown. RSB's and stiff suspensions have been around for what, 4+ years on the Maxima. Out of hundreds of setups, has anybody actually lost control? Wet or snow maybe, but dry?

Yesterday I happened to be doing some low speed skidpadding in a parking lot. 245 Hoosiers up front, 225 KH11's in back (280treadwear), no FSB, 1.2" RSB set to nearly full stiff, 450lb rear springs matched with very aggresive valving. I could barely get the rear to step out and I was trying to force it to do just that.

Get the bar, try it. If you don't like it then sell it off. If you were local I'd loan you one of mine.

 

Just like bejay said...

Get the RSB. Even though you said you don't track your car, get it anyways. I think anyone that says the RSB is useless if your car is dropped X inches or has X spring rate etc is out of their mind.

Even more misleading is the statement that it's dangerous. WTF get a clue. I could go into more detail on this to demonstrate how rediculous this statement is but I'm not going to waste your time. You seem to know your stuff fairly well so it's probably unneccesary.

I've got hours upon hours of road course experience in my old 96 maxima, and the comparative experience of owning 3 fourth gen maximas all with differing levels of suspension work (stock, vs just springs and shocks vs coilovers, sfcs, swaybar, etc) to back me up on this. Trust the people who drive their cars at the limit and know what they are talking about. Get the swaybar.

For a non-track person I'd get the cheaper addco or progress, if you want to take it on a road course or autox then consider the stillen if money allows. It's adjustable.

 

Sport springs are progressivly wound which means they resist body roll. A lower center of gravity also adds in handling. Adding an RSB to the rear of a lowered Maxima does little to improve it's handling. It makes the rear become unsettled and a bit to stiff, thus taking away it's ability to absorb bumps correctly. Some have also pointed out that you loose the ability to control the rear as it can suddenly slide out on agressive high speed turns. (not to good if you ask me)

I've had a Progress RSB and H&R springs on my car for quite a while until I decided to see what happens to the ride and handling without the RSB on it. Much to my suprise, and as others on here have confirmed, the handling didn't change much, if any at all. The ride of the car did change quite a bit .... for the better that is. The rear became much more stable on the road and is now very much controlled over rough surfaces. It no longer kicks out around curves on bad roads and it seems as if the rear shocks are doing a much better job keeping the beam under control and planted on the road.

The rear beam setup on our cars has anti-roll characteristics built in it by design. Adding an RSB makes it even more stiff and also adds unwanted unsprung weight to the rear suspension. An aftermarket RSB can be fun, but I feel it's a mod that is completely over exaggerated for what it really does. The negative effects actually outweight the positives especially on cars that already have modified sport lowered setups.

 

Awesome. Thanks for the tips, guys. I really appreciate the experienced guys ringing in on this.

I had actually been considering the Stillen RSB for its adjustability, as mentioned. Any idea whether the softest setting is any softer than the Addco or Progress bars?

 

The Addco and Progress setups are exactly the same and are also adjustable.
The Stillen RSB is expensive and on excessivly lowered setups the clamps hit the floor boards.

Save yourself some $$, your only paying for the Stillen name.

 

I have the stillen and it has been set on the middle setting ever since I got it there is no reason I can see for ever having to adjust it. Usually I will drive pretty normal, but every now and then I will push the car pretty hard through turns. I can not see how having it on can make the car dangerous. It greatly stifened up the chassis, I have little to no body roll and like I said, I noticed its effects the second I drofve the car after putting it on.

 

When i take my turns hard, the fronts are always in the turns.... like it will handle very well, but the back i feel a little swaying. Basically the handling in the front isnt as solid in the rear. maybe i should get a rsb too?

btw i have eibhachs and illuminas

 

Huh, I'll have to look at that this weekend. I know I didn't like my RSB in front of the beam too much but even dropped 3" it didn't hit anything.