25k on Vpower copper plugs --- pics
03-29-2007, 01:14 PM
#1
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25k on Vpower copper plugs --- pics
there was a discussion recently about NGK Vpower copper plugs, and whether they will go 25k miles.
here's some pics of my Vpowers with 24,590 miles on them. gap is still in spec. I'd say they're good for another 20k at least...
(25k on the left ..... brand new BKR5E11 on the right)
here's some pics of my Vpowers with 24,590 miles on them. gap is still in spec. I'd say they're good for another 20k at least...
(25k on the left ..... brand new BKR5E11 on the right)
03-29-2007, 04:14 PM
#5
Originally Posted by Bobo
I would toss the ones on the left out, return the ones on the right, and get some laser platinums.
03-29-2007, 06:50 PM
#6
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Originally Posted by nismology
This comment is based purely on personal preference. Nothing else...
but even when presented with both theoretical and empirical evidence, some people just refuse to accept reality. personal preferences aside, the real problem is that they spread their misinformed opinions to other, more impressionable people who will believe what anyone tells them.
03-29-2007, 07:45 PM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,391
i use regular NGK plats, but i can tell u of another reason to use coppers besides the ones sky jumper keeps preaching about. Spark plugs are the window into the engine, analyzing spark plugs tells u how ur engine is doing, by using coppers u are also checking ur engine more often than when using plats or iridiums.
03-29-2007, 08:43 PM
#8
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 497
Originally Posted by sky jumper
and it displays a lack of understanding of what a healthy young spark plug should look like; a lack of understanding that laser plats are a waste of money when higher quality laser iridiums are the same price; and a lack of understanding that the only reason manufacturers use platinum/iridium plugs is for extended maintenance intervals.
but even when presented with both theoretical and empirical evidence, some people just refuse to accept reality. personal preferences aside, the real problem is that they spread their misinformed opinions to other, more impressionable people who will believe what anyone tells them.
but even when presented with both theoretical and empirical evidence, some people just refuse to accept reality. personal preferences aside, the real problem is that they spread their misinformed opinions to other, more impressionable people who will believe what anyone tells them.
03-30-2007, 06:11 PM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 6,190
Nonsense. I recently replaced my OEM laser platinum plugs after 67,100 mostly highway miles and 12-1/2 years of use. They were still good to go, but I decided it was out with the old and in with the new as I have emissions testing to deal with later in the year and they had been in there long enough.
As far as I know, laser iridiums are better for boosted applications, not NA.
Given the corrosive properties of copper plugs, I would rather just stick with OEM platinum plugs as the cost is irrelevant. I would have been on at least my 3rd set of copper plugs by the time the laser platinums were replaced and my fuel economy was as good as day 1 when they came out. and still better than 99% of the .orgers I have ever seen post.
Perhaps, you should be more careful in impressing less knowledgeable members concerning using spark plugs that are not original equipment.
Do you do the same with oil and oil filters?
As far as I know, laser iridiums are better for boosted applications, not NA.
Given the corrosive properties of copper plugs, I would rather just stick with OEM platinum plugs as the cost is irrelevant. I would have been on at least my 3rd set of copper plugs by the time the laser platinums were replaced and my fuel economy was as good as day 1 when they came out. and still better than 99% of the .orgers I have ever seen post.
Perhaps, you should be more careful in impressing less knowledgeable members concerning using spark plugs that are not original equipment.
Do you do the same with oil and oil filters?
Originally Posted by sky jumper
and it displays a lack of understanding of what a healthy young spark plug should look like; a lack of understanding that laser plats are a waste of money when higher quality laser iridiums are the same price; and a lack of understanding that the only reason manufacturers use platinum/iridium plugs is for extended maintenance intervals.
but even when presented with both theoretical and empirical evidence, some people just refuse to accept reality. personal preferences aside, the real problem is that they spread their misinformed opinions to other, more impressionable people who will believe what anyone tells them.
but even when presented with both theoretical and empirical evidence, some people just refuse to accept reality. personal preferences aside, the real problem is that they spread their misinformed opinions to other, more impressionable people who will believe what anyone tells them.
03-30-2007, 06:31 PM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bartlett, IL
Posts: 3,595
Originally Posted by sky jumper
and it displays a lack of understanding of what a healthy young spark plug should look like; a lack of understanding that laser plats are a waste of money when higher quality laser iridiums are the same price; and a lack of understanding that the only reason manufacturers use platinum/iridium plugs is for extended maintenance intervals.
but even when presented with both theoretical and empirical evidence, some people just refuse to accept reality. personal preferences aside, the real problem is that they spread their misinformed opinions to other, more impressionable people who will believe what anyone tells them.
but even when presented with both theoretical and empirical evidence, some people just refuse to accept reality. personal preferences aside, the real problem is that they spread their misinformed opinions to other, more impressionable people who will believe what anyone tells them.
03-30-2007, 09:25 PM
#11
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Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by Bobo
Nonsense. I recently replaced my OEM laser platinum plugs after 67,100 mostly highway miles and 12-1/2 years of use. They were still good to go, but I decided it was out with the old and in with the new as I have emissions testing to deal with later in the year and they had been in there long enough.
As far as I know, laser iridiums are better for boosted applications, not NA.
I would have been on at least my 3rd set of copper plugs by the time the laser platinums were replaced
Given the corrosive properties of copper plugs, I would rather just stick with OEM platinum plugs as the cost is irrelevant.
Perhaps, you should be more careful in impressing less knowledgeable members concerning using spark plugs that are not original equipment.
I am concerned with giving this community useful fact-based advice with an engineer's perspective, so that these kids can make the best decisions for their cars and their wallets.
now if you want to ignore fact, and waste your $$ on laser plats (when you could get a better plug for the same cost), then fine. but stop telling the kids on here with limited budgets and old high mileage 4 door sedans to blow $60 on platinum plugs -- it is just bad advice, plain and simple. many of these kids have more serious problems that would just foul a new set of plats -- and there's $60 down the drain. real smart.
and cost isn't even the real issue. the real reason to use coppers (as I've stated many many times) is that when your engine gets older you should be checking your plugs regularly, every 12 months or 20k miles to keep an eye on its health. all smart mechanics know this. and since you're checking them, might as well replace them if needed. then there is no need for plats/iridiums. lets teach these kids how to read their plugs and take care of their motors, not how to be mindless drones.
Do you do the same with oil and oil filters?
as for the filters -- in a properly maintained engine the oil filter does not matter, b/c the oil never gets dirty enough to even need filtration. I have used every possible cheap generic filter money can buy, as well as the OEM 9E, and my oil analyses have always been superb no matter what. do you get your oil analyzed?? then what do you base your oil filter decision on?? fact? data? or someone else's uneducated bandwagon opinion?
03-31-2007, 09:02 AM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 6,190
I won't get in a further argument with you as you have had it in for me for about 2 years now.
Isn't the season approaching for you to dump your **** into your kid's wading pool? With all the money you are saving on copper plugs, perhaps an upgrade is in order this year!
Isn't the season approaching for you to dump your **** into your kid's wading pool? With all the money you are saving on copper plugs, perhaps an upgrade is in order this year!
03-31-2007, 10:39 AM
#14
ok. so the geniuses are at it again. lets put it to rest.
http://materials.globalspec.com/help...12§ionid=1
"Copper is second only to silver in terms of bulk electrical conductivity. Copper has better strength than silver, but offers inferior oxidation resistance. Often, copper is used as a base metal in electrical contact and electrode applications."
are copper better plugs? for the money..yes. for the performance....yes. for the headache of more frequent changes.....no.
now some claim "iridium performs better than platinum and last as long as copper".
In theory this is true since platinum ahs roughly twice the resistance (and half the conductivity) or Iridium. But plugs arent made of platinum or iridium!!! they are simply coated with it to prevent surface oxidation. all of the cores are the same.
This person nailed it on the head: http://www.redpulsar.us/~coldfusion/...ythbusted.html
"Spark plug design, construction, and manufacturing quality is more important than just the material choice itself."
Therefore, your only choice should be:
a) save a lot more money and go with copper but change a little more frequently
or
b) Go for the best design (which should be the plugs the original manufacturers had in mind when designing this motor.
/thread
P.S.: If you want teh best plugs out there go buy some silver plugs. and yes they do make them.
http://materials.globalspec.com/help...12§ionid=1
"Copper is second only to silver in terms of bulk electrical conductivity. Copper has better strength than silver, but offers inferior oxidation resistance. Often, copper is used as a base metal in electrical contact and electrode applications."
are copper better plugs? for the money..yes. for the performance....yes. for the headache of more frequent changes.....no.
now some claim "iridium performs better than platinum and last as long as copper".
In theory this is true since platinum ahs roughly twice the resistance (and half the conductivity) or Iridium. But plugs arent made of platinum or iridium!!! they are simply coated with it to prevent surface oxidation. all of the cores are the same.
This person nailed it on the head: http://www.redpulsar.us/~coldfusion/...ythbusted.html
"Spark plug design, construction, and manufacturing quality is more important than just the material choice itself."
Therefore, your only choice should be:
a) save a lot more money and go with copper but change a little more frequently
or
b) Go for the best design (which should be the plugs the original manufacturers had in mind when designing this motor.
/thread
P.S.: If you want teh best plugs out there go buy some silver plugs. and yes they do make them.
03-31-2007, 11:15 AM
#15
It's all personal preference, you WON'T notice the differnce. Just stay NGK...
Personally, I rather save 5 bucks a plug and change them once every 2 years. Maybe if the VQ30 was a hard motor to change plugs on it would be a different story, but it's not.
Personally, I rather save 5 bucks a plug and change them once every 2 years. Maybe if the VQ30 was a hard motor to change plugs on it would be a different story, but it's not.
03-31-2007, 05:36 PM
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by Bobo
Isn't the season approaching for you to dump your **** into your kid's wading pool? With all the money you are saving on copper plugs, perhaps an upgrade is in order this year!
04-01-2007, 09:54 AM
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 6,190
I have not lost an argument and my comments are not juvenile.
I did some research on copper plugs about 2 years ago. I could not find a local Nissan dealership that recommended them. I contacted 4 parts stores and not one recommended them. In all instances I was told to stay with the OEM laser platinum plugs.
If one were to follow your cost-saving logic, 87 octane gasoline would be the preferred choice.:
I did some research on copper plugs about 2 years ago. I could not find a local Nissan dealership that recommended them. I contacted 4 parts stores and not one recommended them. In all instances I was told to stay with the OEM laser platinum plugs.
If one were to follow your cost-saving logic, 87 octane gasoline would be the preferred choice.:
Originally Posted by sky jumper
I think it's time for you to learn how to lose an argument like a man. your juvenile comments are not appropriate here, especially for someone of your age. and for the last time its not just about the money - can't you read? stop spreading your misinformation and bad advice.
04-01-2007, 10:06 AM
#18
Originally Posted by Bobo
I have not lost an argument and my comments are not juvenile.
I did some research on copper plugs about 2 years ago. I could not find a local Nissan dealership that recommended them. I contacted 4 parts stores and not one recommended them. In all instances I was told to stay with the OEM laser platinum plugs.
If one were to follow your cost-saving logic, 87 octane gasoline would be the preferred choice.:
I did some research on copper plugs about 2 years ago. I could not find a local Nissan dealership that recommended them. I contacted 4 parts stores and not one recommended them. In all instances I was told to stay with the OEM laser platinum plugs.
If one were to follow your cost-saving logic, 87 octane gasoline would be the preferred choice.:
No it wouldn't. Glad you did real research... Peoples OPINIONS.
04-01-2007, 11:14 AM
#19
Originally Posted by Bobo
I have not lost an argument and my comments are not juvenile.
I did some research on copper plugs about 2 years ago. I could not find a local Nissan dealership that recommended them. I contacted 4 parts stores and not one recommended them. In all instances I was told to stay with the OEM laser platinum plugs.
If one were to follow your cost-saving logic, 87 octane gasoline would be the preferred choice.:
I did some research on copper plugs about 2 years ago. I could not find a local Nissan dealership that recommended them. I contacted 4 parts stores and not one recommended them. In all instances I was told to stay with the OEM laser platinum plugs.
If one were to follow your cost-saving logic, 87 octane gasoline would be the preferred choice.:
04-01-2007, 11:16 AM
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,391
87 pctane is fine for a stock 4th gen, even tho 91 is recommended for "maximum" performance 87 is fine if u dont do any racing on the track, nothing will go wrong with ur engine,
so u trust what the manual says huh, did u read page 9-3 ? i doubt it, it goes a little something like this:
"In most parts of North America, you should use unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of at least 87 or 91 AKI (Anti-Knock Index) number. However, you may use unleaded gasoline with an octane rating as low as 85 AKI number in these high altitude areas [over 4000 ft or 1219 m] such as Colorado, montana, New Mexico, Utah, Wyoming, ect" it goes on an on.
Go to the fluids section and reaasrch 2 threads with the names OCTANE in them....
PS that sig is not allowed anymore
so u trust what the manual says huh, did u read page 9-3 ? i doubt it, it goes a little something like this:
"In most parts of North America, you should use unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of at least 87 or 91 AKI (Anti-Knock Index) number. However, you may use unleaded gasoline with an octane rating as low as 85 AKI number in these high altitude areas [over 4000 ft or 1219 m] such as Colorado, montana, New Mexico, Utah, Wyoming, ect" it goes on an on.
Go to the fluids section and reaasrch 2 threads with the names OCTANE in them....
PS that sig is not allowed anymore
04-01-2007, 11:34 AM
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 6,190
I have no idea where you are coming from. I don't need to research anything on octane. I am a regular user of the Fluids & Lubricants forum and a member of bobisthoilguy.com.
I live at sea level and use 90 octane 10% ethanol gas, sold at the price of 87 octane elsewhere.
In the summer, when I go on a road trip I go up to 92 octane.
I have never used 87 octane gas in the 12-1/2 years I have owned my Maxima, and have no intentions of using it anytime soon.
I live at sea level and use 90 octane 10% ethanol gas, sold at the price of 87 octane elsewhere.
In the summer, when I go on a road trip I go up to 92 octane.
I have never used 87 octane gas in the 12-1/2 years I have owned my Maxima, and have no intentions of using it anytime soon.
Originally Posted by andrei3333
87 pctane is fine for a stock 4th gen, even tho 91 is recommended for "maximum" performance 87 is fine if u dont do any racing on the track, nothing will go wrong with ur engine,
so u trust what the manual says huh, did u read page 9-3 ? i doubt it, it goes a little something like this:
"In most parts of North America, you should use unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of at least 87 or 91 AKI (Anti-Knock Index) number. However, you may use unleaded gasoline with an octane rating as low as 85 AKI number in these high altitude areas [over 4000 ft or 1219 m] such as Colorado, montana, New Mexico, Utah, Wyoming, ect" it goes on an on.
Go to the fluids section and reaasrch 2 threads with the names OCTANE in them....
PS that sig is not allowed anymore
so u trust what the manual says huh, did u read page 9-3 ? i doubt it, it goes a little something like this:
"In most parts of North America, you should use unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of at least 87 or 91 AKI (Anti-Knock Index) number. However, you may use unleaded gasoline with an octane rating as low as 85 AKI number in these high altitude areas [over 4000 ft or 1219 m] such as Colorado, montana, New Mexico, Utah, Wyoming, ect" it goes on an on.
Go to the fluids section and reaasrch 2 threads with the names OCTANE in them....
PS that sig is not allowed anymore
04-01-2007, 11:44 AM
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,391
well then im sorry to say that u have spent more money on gasoline then you should have
87 octane should be used by stock maximas that do not race
PS: how do u know 87 is not good if u never tried it ? u trust everything nissan tells u to do ?
87 octane should be used by stock maximas that do not race
PS: how do u know 87 is not good if u never tried it ? u trust everything nissan tells u to do ?
04-01-2007, 12:46 PM
#23
Originally Posted by andrei3333
well then im sorry to say that u have spent more money on gasoline then you should have
87 octane should be used by stock maximas that do not race
PS: how do u know 87 is not good if u never tried it ? u trust everything nissan tells u to do ?
87 octane should be used by stock maximas that do not race
PS: how do u know 87 is not good if u never tried it ? u trust everything nissan tells u to do ?
Hey,
This isn't a gas thread, if you wanna discuss different octanes, then pm him.
oh, by the way... 87 is a
04-01-2007, 01:04 PM
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by Bobo
I have not lost an argument and my comments are not juvenile.
I did some research on copper plugs about 2 years ago. I could not find a local Nissan dealership that recommended them. I contacted 4 parts stores and not one recommended them. In all instances I was told to stay with the OEM laser platinum plugs.
If one were to follow your cost-saving logic, 87 octane gasoline would be the preferred choice.:
I did some research on copper plugs about 2 years ago. I could not find a local Nissan dealership that recommended them. I contacted 4 parts stores and not one recommended them. In all instances I was told to stay with the OEM laser platinum plugs.
If one were to follow your cost-saving logic, 87 octane gasoline would be the preferred choice.:
to be fair, you do have some very good posts, and do know a lot about these cars. but your bad attitude and irrational refusal to admit when you're wrong make you a liability to this community.
and what's up with the childish html gremlins? aren't you 54 years old? don't you know how sad and pathetic that looks? I feel a bit sad & pathetic just for responding to it.
04-01-2007, 08:12 PM
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 6,190
Chill out sky jumper! I'm not debating anything, nor have I been malicious at any time in this thread.
You prefer copper plugs. I prefer OEM platinum plugs.
What we have is a difference of opinion. That is what makes a stock market.
It happens, get over it!
You prefer copper plugs. I prefer OEM platinum plugs.
What we have is a difference of opinion. That is what makes a stock market.
It happens, get over it!
04-01-2007, 11:59 PM
#26
This is a great thread. Thanks for the contribution to the community, sky jumper.
I use coppers and I always will.
I don't mind changing them myself.
They are very inexpensive.
They provide a strong spark.
Those who use and prefer OEM platinums most likely don't do their own labor and would rather not visit the mechanic so often. If this is the case, then of course it makes sense to use OEM plats to minimize downtime and labor cost.
I use coppers and I always will.
I don't mind changing them myself.
They are very inexpensive.
They provide a strong spark.
Those who use and prefer OEM platinums most likely don't do their own labor and would rather not visit the mechanic so often. If this is the case, then of course it makes sense to use OEM plats to minimize downtime and labor cost.
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