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100% Sodium Hydroxide

$7 for 2lbs

 

Hey n0ypi,

Do you have any updates on your system? If so post some pics and tell us about the fuel savings.

Your system looks like it should really be pumping out the hho.

 

yes do share N0ypi id really like some good grounds upon which for me to start my own experimentation!

 

very interesting thread

 

it's been a long day, its really late here, i'm actually about ready to hit the sack. yeah, why not upload some photos...

booster is not running in full throttle, diluted electrolyte, 8amps, 13.v, only 500ml- 600ml/min, No other mods or whatsoever... just for now, mileage gain is +6to7mpg (from 31mpg to 38mpg) when cruising at around 65mph.

though my booster can actually pull 20-30 amps from alt and increase gas production, and the alt can surely provide that current, but there's a cost for pulling too much amps of course... it has to come from somewhere, i found that my optimum mileage gains is when my booster is pulling 7-9amps, but not done experimenting yet, theres more to test. so little time, i'm only doing tweaks over the weekends.

will be doing testing on high concentration of electrolyte later, currently working on PWM, to better control amps, and console guages/displays and switches.

later...

The Big Brother:


at rest after testing...

 

Make me one!

 

thats quite the little booster ya got there n0ypi. Im just curious, how did you get the acrillic material to seal watertight?

 

wow that Baby Booster looks real nice....can you take closer pics of the plates please.

 

Man that is awesome work. With all those plates that thing should put out too, and it doesn't take up much space.

 

no bubbler or arrestor? arent you worried about flash backs or what about water spilling over into the engine when driving over a bump?

good build tho, I like the location in the engine you have it at.

also did you do anything with the 02 sensors?

 

Thanks.

I just use gasket.

 

Will do later, I've changed the design of the baby booster, made it similar to the the big boy, this booster is efficient, it's just too big to fit behind the grille , made a mistake in the dimensions, it's now in my truck. It's a 2 parallel of 5 series cell group, partially isolated, I split some of the cells and put them in their compartment, thought some are sharing compartments here (2cells), but that'll surely minimize current leaks, I can still make it better by fully isolating every cell. just didn't have enought time, will work on the next design later.

The baby booster you see here is old, that's a 3 parallel of 5 series cell groupings, the 5 series cell groups is in their open bath compartment. like this:

-NNNN+ [DIVIDER] -NNNN+ [DIVIDER] -NNNN+

Open bath design is actually inneficient, too much current leaks and heats up quickly, unless you seal the sides, bottom and top of the cells. Or put a step gap (like the way smack is doing it), but there's still current leaks in there since, it's an open bath.

I've changed it, redesigned it again, now getting twice the efficiency. Will show it later.

Glad that this is generating interest.

 

Do have a bubbler.

The location was temporary, dont like it there, too much heat, its now between the grille and radiator. Preferably, i'll put this in the trunk, later when I have enough time.

 

Twice The Output!?!? Saweeet, you should share your exact designs with us

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/07/24/r...to-the-gallon/

For the non - believers... i guess.

Good luck guys and enjoy it.

 

Ya Ive read about this car before. Its basically the same thing we all have been doing but professionally executed as far as HHO is concerned. The only advantage that car has over ours (i think) is that the ECU is designed for HHO. Otherwise its just a fancy shell over a TT acura. Its good to know though that companies are looking into this too, hopefully it will push big car manufacturers to follow.

 

Non-believer I stay. Until we see an actual car delivering 450hp at 40 MPG, this is just yet another HHO scam (but this time, a very expensive one)

 

um ok...a prototype has already been made and tested...you think they just pulled those numbers out of their a$$es?

What is there to not believe. Hydrogen increases the efficiency of the combustion of gasoline. If you think 100% of the gasoline that is put into your engine is burned, then you need to read up some more.

 

he's in denial mode.

 

Even if it gives +5 MPG, all of this hard work will pay off. Your not going to see 450hp from something as simple as HHO (I say simple because even I can understand the concept). And I highly doubt you'll see 40 MPG unless this is highway cruising, and even then. Once I see someone with a working kit I will have to start building my own.

How's the progress on this project going anyways?

 

Do you really want hydrogen gas that close to your gas tank (in the trunk)? Although I realize even if something does happen, it won't go off like a bomb and it would probably just flash. But I would still feel uncomfortable knowing that I have hydrogen running underneath me.

 

The 450HP is not from the HHO, its from the 3.5L TT Vtec...
I have a working setup that I ran for awhile but it took it off until I can get my wideband hooked up. I didnt test for MPG but the car definitely ran smoother/quieter/better.

 

Has any independent organization (without any financial interest) has seen this prototype and conducted the performance tests? Until you can answer yes and present the results, "they just pulled those numbers out of their a$$es" is exactly what it is!

350Z delivers 306hp at 25mpg highway. If you believe in Ronn's 450hp at 40mpg - keep dreaming.

Actually, I KNOW that not all the gasoline burns in ICE, and it is definitely possible that hydrogen improves the combustion. I just wonder why there're no scientific experiments showing a financially significant improvement? And why after months of attempts, nobody in this community has presented any dependable mpg improvement data, and all we continue to see is things like

 

Because our maximas are EFI, and the amount of fuel injectected is controlled by the oxygen sensors. Running hydrogen causes the o2 sensors to read very lean and therefore dump more fuel in. Because of this reason, people havent come up with a long term solution for our cars.

If you research, people are doing this with carburated cars and are finding significant mpg gains since they dont have to worry about EFI.

I hate even responding to this thread anymore cause people are so ignorant and they argue stuff they have NO experience with. I have actually made one and used it on my car, seen the mpg gains. But because of what I said, I cant run it for longterm.

I can tell you this, running my car normally, I can drive about 100-120 miles before the gas tank hits 3/4 from full. With my HHO I got 140-150 before that same mark. Thats the best I can come up with for numbers. But I know it will never be good enough for some of you. Personally I dont care what you think. Im filling up only my gas tank, not yours. I just wish people would open their mind and stop being so ignorant.

/rant

 

 

by the way you (danmaz) should be thankful the world isnt full of people like you. If everyone just sat around waiting for someone else to come up with proven numbers, nothing would get done.

You want to know why its been months and I still havent come up with a solid working design? Because Im a college student who is, studying engineering, working two jobs, paying tuition and rent, paying for other car mods, having a social life, and entertaining other hobbies. Sorry satisfying you with proven MPG gains isnt on the top of my priorities.

//rant

 

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE SUBJECT, TOPIC OR DISCUSSION ON THIS THREAD, PLEASE MOVE ON!!!

This thread started out with lots of positive input and was very informative. Lets keep it that way.

nOypi, blackmaxed95 and to all those who quit posting, keep up the experiments and do post the results.

Even if something does'nt work the first time does'nt mean the whole idea is bad.

Good god how many light bulbs did it take to get one that worked?

Just a thought,

Ronnie

 

You obviously know more about this than anyone that hasn't built one, so don't answer ignorance. Keep doing your thing. If you were to get it to work 100%, people would want you to build one for them so don't get caught up in arguments that go nowhere.

 

Oh, you are studying engineering! Maybe, you can explain, why it is needed to reprogram the ECU to adjust O2 sensor reading:
1. The electrolysis converts water (H2O) into what you call HHO. In this mixture the proportion of hydrogen to oxygen is 2 atoms to 1 atom. This means that the combustion of the hydrogen in the engine utilizes exactly the same amount of oxygen that was generated during the electrolysis.
2. The O2 sensor measures the amount of oxygen in the gases exiting the engine – after hydrogen combustion.
So how is it possible that injecting HHO into the intake manifold changes the reading of the O2 sensor?

 

danmaz, Injecting HHO into the fuel creates more oxygen exiting through the exhaust. The O2 sensors pick up on this extra oxygen because that is their job, and they tell the ECU to dump for fuel into the engine, which defeats the whole purpose of HHO. By reprogramming the ECU you are able to bypass the O2's readings and get better gas mileage sense you are no longer dumping extra fuel into the engine.

I get all of this information from reading this thead. Perhaps you should actually read the thread before posting?

 

You either didn’t read or didn’t fully understand what I wrote in the question. You inject 1 atoms of oxygen per each 2 atoms of hydrogen. This is the exact proportion of hydrogen combustion, which means all the injected oxygen oxidizes the injected hydrogen, producing H2O (steam). Having excessive oxygen in the exhaust would mean that not all the hydrogen combusted. Naturally, this would actually significantly decrease the efficiency and the MPG ratio.
BTW, I did read this thread, and I specifically wanted to ask somebody with engineering/technical/scientific knowledge, who understands (is supposed to understand) this kind of stuff.

 

"Oxygen is not a fuel. It is an oxidizer. It helps other fuels to burn more efficiently. It WILL increase the amount of oxygen not used in the combustion process to your catalytic converter. Your O2 sensor normally picks up oxygen as too much air and too little fuel or excess oxygen because too little pump gas has been added. The EEC (electronic engine control) then adds gas to the motor as a result to correct the lean condition.

When you inject hydrogen and oxygen back into the motor you increase the oxygen. Some of that passes through to the O2 sensor which picks up this normally lean condition and adds gas to the motor, making the subsequent mixture too rich. As a result you get lots of power but no increase in fuel economy."

Pulled from Yahoo, BTW. I'm only a second year biochemistry student so I don't completely understand this entire procedure, but sounds logical to me.

 

As a biochemistry student, do you really need yahoo to understand this: you inject 1 atom of oxygen for each 2 atoms of hydrogen; oxygen oxidizes hydrogen and you get H2O (=1 atom of oxygen for each 2 atoms of hydrogen). So ALL the injected oxygen is used to oxidize (burn) the hydrogen -> there’s no additional oxygen in the exhaust. How come the O2 sensor reports elevated level of oxygen?

 

Oxidation doesn't imply that oxygen is burnt. Oxidation simply means that an oxygen atom is removed. 2(H2O) => 2(H2) + O2. By saying that there is no more oxygen you are implying that the oxygen just disappears. It has to exit the equation somehow. It should exit the exhaust as H2O and O2. Do you happen to know the formula for gasoline off hand? I would like to try to work out a balanced equation to see if I'm right.

Edit: Actually, from looking around all hydrogen powered cars produce water as the final product. It shouldn't contribute any extra O2 the the environment.
2nd Edit: ^^ This is just from pure hydrogen powered cars. What the HHO project implies is a type of fuel cell which uses oxygen to complete the burn of hydrogen in the internal combustion engine. The result of this is water vapor and oxygen gas.

 

Brown's gas: This is the most perfect fuel of all for running our vehicles. Like pure hydrogen, it is made from water, i.e., hydrogen and oxygen, but it burns in the combustion engine so that, depending on the setup, it may actually release oxygen into the atmosphere. In that case, what comes out of the tail pipe is oxygen and water vapor, just as with fuel cells; but the oxygen comes from the water that's being used to create the Brown's gas fuel. So burning Brown's gas as fuel can add oxygen to the air and thus increase the oxygen content of our atmosphere.

 

Are you really a biochemistry student?
Oxidation=reaction of fuel with oxygen=burning=combustion
The formula that you mentioned 2(H2O) => 2(H2) + O2 is the opposite of oxidation=the chemical formula of electrolysis!
The formula of hydrogen burning/oxidation/combustion is 2(H2)+O2 => 2(H2O).

So you start with two molecules of H2O, the electrolysis converts them into 2 molecules of H2 and one molecule of O2 and this is what's injected into the engine. During the combustion, the two molecules of H2 react with one molecule of O2 and you get back 2 molecules of H2O - no additional oxygen around O2 sensor!

Oxidation of gasoline (trimethylpentane): 2(C8H18)+25(O2) => 16(CO2)+18(H2O)

 

Has any of the HHO people in here tried the Rothman Technologies' method of producing hydrogen? Apparently, it produces pure hydrogen that doesn't need the aid of oxygen to combust. Instead of the normal salt and water method there is some sort of inexpensive metal alloy involved.

 

One chemistry class so far. I have one more this semester before I start into organic chemistry. I don't claim to know much about this at all. But from what I've read about this, from different sources other than this thread, the exhaust from the HHO system is CO+H2O(gas)+O2.

Instead of arguing with the people in this thread, I would try to argue in some of the forums elsewhere that are more dedicated to this project. They might be able to answer your questions better.

Anyways, I'm sure some of the guys actually working on this experiment will contribute later. But I've been procrastinating on a bioethics final paper, so I'll check back later to see what's going on.

 

Wow, your right. How embarrassing. I was thinking about the electrolysis equation when writing that, and I just type the wrong equation. 2H2 + O2 -> 2H2O is the example of oxidation reduction that I was should have typed. Oxygen is being reduced. Oh well. At least I gave you a good opportunity to prove your superiority.

 

well guys my brother installed a system on his 2006 sonata v6 like three months ago and so far the mpg improved by as much as 14mpg more and the average is 10 more mpg for me that's a lot, i myself was a disbeliever but he prove me wrong i'm planning to install mine whiting the next 2 weeks i let you guys know how it goes