Are 5th gen maxs faster than 4th gen ??
Well i think that's faster than my VR-4 since its pretty much stock lol
08-10-2009, 05:06 AM
#42
In a drag race the lighter weight of the 4th gen is an advantage, however ultimately a 5th gen would end up eventually pulling ahead if the race were long enough. Depending on options and model year and such the weight difference can end up being upwards of 300-400lbs.
08-10-2009, 05:23 AM
#43
In a drag race the lighter weight of the 4th gen is an advantage, however ultimately a 5th gen would end up eventually pulling ahead if the race were long enough. Depending on options and model year and such the weight difference can end up being upwards of 300-400lbs.
08-10-2009, 12:38 PM
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 383
you gotta compare apples to apples other wise you are just skewing facts to make your side look better. From personal experience my 01 SE AE is faster than my moms similarly equipped 96 SE, both cars are 5spds.
08-10-2009, 01:28 PM
#45
Perhaps if you take a GXE 4th gen with a 5spd and compare it to a GLE 5th gen with an auto, but thats not really a fair comparison is it? All else being equal (ie GXE vs GXE) the weight difference should be no more than 200lbs.
you gotta compare apples to apples other wise you are just skewing facts to make your side look better. From personal experience my 01 SE AE is faster than my moms similarly equipped 96 SE, both cars are 5spds.
you gotta compare apples to apples other wise you are just skewing facts to make your side look better. From personal experience my 01 SE AE is faster than my moms similarly equipped 96 SE, both cars are 5spds.
08-11-2009, 09:48 AM
#46
Perhaps if you take a GXE 4th gen with a 5spd and compare it to a GLE 5th gen with an auto, but thats not really a fair comparison is it? All else being equal (ie GXE vs GXE) the weight difference should be no more than 200lbs.
you gotta compare apples to apples other wise you are just skewing facts to make your side look better. From personal experience my 01 SE AE is faster than my moms similarly equipped 96 SE, both cars are 5spds.
you gotta compare apples to apples other wise you are just skewing facts to make your side look better. From personal experience my 01 SE AE is faster than my moms similarly equipped 96 SE, both cars are 5spds.
Your claim is incorrect.
A 4th gen GXE 5spd is a 2880-2930lb car. A 5th gen GXE 5spd is a 3150-3200lb car (3150 is even being generous on the light side according to the listed weights on websites such as NADA.com and Edmunds.com). Apples to apples. Furthermore, if you read my statement again I said the weight difference can be upwards of 300-400lbs, not that it is always upwards of 300-400lbs. The weight difference can be that high and often is, not always, but often. That's not skewing the facts, that's stating the facts.
Like I said before, 4th gens are generally a few tenths quicker in a 1/8 or 1/4 mile drag race due to better tq/weight ratio, less rotational mass (lighter wheel/tire combos) etc. 5th gens will take over once the speed really gets up there because power to weight ratio matters less and less at higher speeds, where overall horsepower and aerodynamics take over (assuming equal gearing, which 4th and 5th gens have). In a drag race I'd rather be in a stock 4th gen. In a highway race I'd rather be in a stock 5th gen.
Last edited by Nealoc187; 08-11-2009 at 09:59 AM.
08-11-2009, 10:01 AM
#47
Your claim is incorrect.
A 4th gen GXE 5spd is a 2880-2930lb car. A 5th gen GXE 5spd is a 3150-3200lb car (3150 is even being generous on the light side according to the listed weights on websites such as NADA.com and Edmunds.com). Apples to apples. Furthermore, if you read my statement again I said the weight difference can be upwards of 300-400lbs, not that it is always upwards of 300-400lbs. The facts are those. The weight difference can be that high and often is, not always, but often.
Like I said before, 4th gens are generally a few tenths quicker in a 1/8 or 1/4 mile drag race due to better tq/weight ratio, less rotational mass (lighter wheel/tire combos) etc. 5th gens will take over once the speed really gets up there because power to weight ratio matters less and less at higher speeds, where overall horsepower and aerodynamics take over (assuming equal gearing, which 4th and 5th gens have). In a drag race I'd rather be in a stock 4th gen. In a highway race I'd rather be in a stock 5th gen.
A 4th gen GXE 5spd is a 2880-2930lb car. A 5th gen GXE 5spd is a 3150-3200lb car (3150 is even being generous on the light side according to the listed weights on websites such as NADA.com and Edmunds.com). Apples to apples. Furthermore, if you read my statement again I said the weight difference can be upwards of 300-400lbs, not that it is always upwards of 300-400lbs. The facts are those. The weight difference can be that high and often is, not always, but often.
Like I said before, 4th gens are generally a few tenths quicker in a 1/8 or 1/4 mile drag race due to better tq/weight ratio, less rotational mass (lighter wheel/tire combos) etc. 5th gens will take over once the speed really gets up there because power to weight ratio matters less and less at higher speeds, where overall horsepower and aerodynamics take over (assuming equal gearing, which 4th and 5th gens have). In a drag race I'd rather be in a stock 4th gen. In a highway race I'd rather be in a stock 5th gen.
08-11-2009, 10:11 AM
#48
More sound deadening for a quieter ride, more structural integrity for crash worthiness, more structural stiffening for smoother ride (stiffer chassis means the suspension does it's job more effectively rather than the body of the car flexing, and of course more options like navigation systems, more airbags, more dense/less plasticky interior material, etc.
08-11-2009, 11:40 AM
#49
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 383
Your claim is incorrect.
A 4th gen GXE 5spd is a 2880-2930lb car. A 5th gen GXE 5spd is a 3150-3200lb car (3150 is even being generous on the light side according to the listed weights on websites such as NADA.com and Edmunds.com). Apples to apples. Furthermore, if you read my statement again I said the weight difference can be upwards of 300-400lbs, not that it is always . The weight difference can be that high and often is, not always, but often. That's not skewing the facts, that's stating the facts.
A 4th gen GXE 5spd is a 2880-2930lb car. A 5th gen GXE 5spd is a 3150-3200lb car (3150 is even being generous on the light side according to the listed weights on websites such as NADA.com and Edmunds.com). Apples to apples. Furthermore, if you read my statement again I said the weight difference can be upwards of 300-400lbs, not that it is always . The weight difference can be that high and often is, not always, but often. That's not skewing the facts, that's stating the facts.
Look I wholeheartedly agree that the performance of stock 4th and 5th (DE-K) gens is nearly identical and should you line two perfectly healthy cars up the difference would be the driver not so much the cars. I have a good amount of experience with both 4th gens, my moms since 97, and now my own 5th gen. Both are great cars and are very similar and yet very different.
08-11-2009, 11:55 AM
#50
I cant find any facts that support your 2900lb 4th gen claim...the lowest i could find was 3001lbs on on a 95 GXE 5spd. The heaviest i could find for a 5th gen was 3294lbs on a GLE Auto. Unless I'm mistaken that's 293lbs not 400lbs and as far as I could tell its impossible with out weight reduction the 4th gen for there to be a 400lb weight difference. The listed weight difference between SE vs SE and when you compare GXE vs GXE is less than 200lbs. In fact your own 'facts' dont support a claim of up to 400lbs.
Look I wholeheartedly agree that the performance of stock 4th and 5th (DE-K) gens is nearly identical and should you line two perfectly healthy cars up the difference would be the driver not so much the cars. I have a good amount of experience with both 4th gens, my moms since 97, and now my own 5th gen. Both are great cars and are very similar and yet very different.
Look I wholeheartedly agree that the performance of stock 4th and 5th (DE-K) gens is nearly identical and should you line two perfectly healthy cars up the difference would be the driver not so much the cars. I have a good amount of experience with both 4th gens, my moms since 97, and now my own 5th gen. Both are great cars and are very similar and yet very different.
08-11-2009, 02:12 PM
#56
I cant find any facts that support your 2900lb 4th gen claim...the lowest i could find was 3001lbs on on a 95 GXE 5spd. The heaviest i could find for a 5th gen was 3294lbs on a GLE Auto. Unless I'm mistaken that's 293lbs not 400lbs and as far as I could tell its impossible with out weight reduction the 4th gen for there to be a 400lb weight difference. The listed weight difference between SE vs SE and when you compare GXE vs GXE is less than 200lbs. In fact your own 'facts' dont support a claim of up to 400lbs.
Look I wholeheartedly agree that the performance of stock 4th and 5th (DE-K) gens is nearly identical and should you line two perfectly healthy cars up the difference would be the driver not so much the cars. I have a good amount of experience with both 4th gens, my moms since 97, and now my own 5th gen. Both are great cars and are very similar and yet very different.
Look I wholeheartedly agree that the performance of stock 4th and 5th (DE-K) gens is nearly identical and should you line two perfectly healthy cars up the difference would be the driver not so much the cars. I have a good amount of experience with both 4th gens, my moms since 97, and now my own 5th gen. Both are great cars and are very similar and yet very different.
If you'd rather go by published weights though, the published weight of the 95 and 96 5spd 4th gen was 2886lbs on both Edmunds.com and NADA.com when they used to list it, it was spot on. So based on that I am admittedly make the assumption that the weights for 5th gens were similarly accurate back when they used to list them, and said weights were:
GXE - 3186 lbs.
GLE - 3294 lbs.
SE - 3199lbs.
(source: http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...le-debate.html )
3294-2886 = 408lbs. Heaviest to lightest. You take the GLE out of the equation and you end up with a 300lb spread when comparing as you said, apples to apples. As I've clearly demonstrated though, the weight difference can be upwards of 400lbs. Thus my earlier comment that said "the weight difference can be upwards of 300-400lbs." I don't have any published numbers for 99 GLEs as I frankly never cared about the weights of autos, never bothered to look up the figures. So it's entirely possible that the heaviest 4th gen could be just as heavy as the lightest 5th gen, I really don't know, but I stand by my statement that the weight difference between a 4th gen and 5th gen is up to 400lbs, lightest to heaviest.
I think we're both in agreement though that they are both great cars, both with their own merits
edited: to more accurately reflect more research I just did on the weights I listed for my own cars, searched some more old posts....
Last edited by Nealoc187; 08-11-2009 at 02:23 PM.
08-11-2009, 04:58 PM
#57
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 383
Oh see i don't ever go by 'weights' given on any forum cause most of the time its rubbish (wait did i just say rubbish...damned Harry Potter anyways
). I mean you cant really follow what forums say about the weight of 3000GT's cause forums tell you that all 3000GT's, including the FWD base, weigh 4200lbs when in reality the only 3000GT that weighed in at close to that was the VR-4 Spyder which weighed in at a hair under 4100lbs. Also forums have a nasty habit of quoting GVRW as car weight.
I didn't search here i went straight to Cars.com and edmonds.com and both of them stated that the lightest 4th gen was about 3000lbs. I tend to use them because they tend to list the published specs from the mfg and are somewhat impartial. Since as we've seen in this thread we all have trouble doing lol
Yeah ok great research and such a well written post....
aww come on thats what makes bench racing so much fun
). I mean you cant really follow what forums say about the weight of 3000GT's cause forums tell you that all 3000GT's, including the FWD base, weigh 4200lbs when in reality the only 3000GT that weighed in at close to that was the VR-4 Spyder which weighed in at a hair under 4100lbs. Also forums have a nasty habit of quoting GVRW as car weight. I didn't search here i went straight to Cars.com and edmonds.com and both of them stated that the lightest 4th gen was about 3000lbs. I tend to use them because they tend to list the published specs from the mfg and are somewhat impartial. Since as we've seen in this thread we all have trouble doing lol
Yeah ok great research and such a well written post....
aww come on thats what makes bench racing so much fun
08-11-2009, 05:29 PM
#59
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 383
08-11-2009, 06:40 PM
#62
Power to rate ratio between the gens is a factor. If the 5th gen is heavier does it have enough horses to make up the extra weight vs the 4th gen? One reason why track cars dump the sound deadening, go to fiberglass bodies and hoods, etc. A vq35 in a 5th gen and a vq35 in a 4th gen are 2 different animals because of power to weight ratio.
08-11-2009, 08:37 PM
#63
Power to rate ratio between the gens is a factor. If the 5th gen is heavier does it have enough horses to make up the extra weight vs the 4th gen? One reason why track cars dump the sound deadening, go to fiberglass bodies and hoods, etc. A vq35 in a 5th gen and a vq35 in a 4th gen are 2 different animals because of power to weight ratio.
08-11-2009, 10:38 PM
#64
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 383
Power to rate ratio between the gens is a factor. If the 5th gen is heavier does it have enough horses to make up the extra weight vs the 4th gen? One reason why track cars dump the sound deadening, go to fiberglass bodies and hoods, etc. A vq35 in a 5th gen and a vq35 in a 4th gen are 2 different animals because of power to weight ratio.
08-11-2009, 10:55 PM
#65
4th gen ftw!!
08-12-2009, 10:26 AM
#69
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 383
That would be helpful if that had anything to do with this thread, we're talking stock 4th gen and 5th gen, and it would be fairly close because the power to weight ratio is very similar and no one has specified what they mean by faster.. are we talking quarter mile, eighth mile, whole mile? These are all factors that will determine what will answer the op question on which is faster, no one will know unless you had the same driver do 3 runs with each car in whatever length you want to determine which car is faster same model, same drivetrain. Personally I don't think it matters because for the price of a 5th gen I can have a 4th gen that will walk your 5th gen, and for the price 5.5 gen I can have a 4th gen that will walk that too.
4th gen ftw!!
4th gen ftw!!
08-12-2009, 04:16 PM
#72
Apparently many that have commented in this thread never participated in the steamed discussions lol, I never even considered asking myself the question and figured the 5th gen would automatically be a little faster stock for stock but never knew it'd be just as quick..
08-12-2009, 05:41 PM
#73
http://forums.maxima.org/1-4-1-8-mil...axima-run.html
ill lock it up with any de-k 5th gen with a short ram.
ill lock it up with any de-k 5th gen with a short ram.
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