Megasquirt PNP Standalone ECU - ORDER THREAD -
03-25-2013, 06:58 AM
#82
03-25-2013, 08:02 AM
#84
If we get him to GA, does this mean a guarunteed PnP for a 95 auto maxima? I would hate for him to drive 2000 miles and for me to fund this if we didn't get anything out of it...And if he didn't stop and see the Music City Maxima Crew B)
03-25-2013, 08:10 AM
#85
I dont think any is " guaranteed" this would be just for megasquirt to probe the auto ECU to see what would be needed to get an auto running with one of their devices. It guess it all depends on whether its cost effective or not. The first step is to get an auto there.
03-25-2013, 08:19 AM
#86
That's what I was getting at.. This plus the price of the MS being unknown. I think if it was given some solidity (pics, previews, SOMETHING) then you could get some donations and get them WAY faster and easier. I'm not trying to drive anyone away, I'm just giving a "people's perspective" since I am a poor college student who wants this badly. lol
03-25-2013, 08:28 AM
#87
That's what I was getting at.. This plus the price of the MS being unknown. I think if it was given some solidity (pics, previews, SOMETHING) then you could get some donations and get them WAY faster and easier. I'm not trying to drive anyone away, I'm just giving a "people's perspective" since I am a poor college student who wants this badly. lol
03-25-2013, 09:02 AM
#88
Any donation would be accepted. A gallon of gas gets me 23 miles closer to getting down there and back. I have $100 of my own money set aside plus the $100 that I would be getting once they finish with the car. I'm not looking for a free trip here, just some help from those who are genuinely interested in seeing where this project leads.
Andy
Andy
03-25-2013, 06:44 PM
#93
OK - so you're serious about this? Have you talked to Aaron about the details of what he has arranged with MS? --so you don't go there and find nobody knows you were coming, or why?
Don't get me wrong - it's impressive that you're willing to make the trip, but is this just for the transmission tests, or are you going to stay for the other and more difficult part where MS measures everything it takes to make a complete MS/4th-gen ECU? That's not a one-day adventure.
Don't get me wrong - it's impressive that you're willing to make the trip, but is this just for the transmission tests, or are you going to stay for the other and more difficult part where MS measures everything it takes to make a complete MS/4th-gen ECU? That's not a one-day adventure.
03-25-2013, 07:58 PM
#94
OK - so you're serious about this? Have you talked to Aaron about the details of what he has arranged with MS? --so you don't go there and find nobody knows you were coming, or why?
Don't get me wrong - it's impressive that you're willing to make the trip, but is this just for the transmission tests, or are you going to stay for the other and more difficult part where MS measures everything it takes to make a complete MS/4th-gen ECU? That's not a one-day adventure.
Don't get me wrong - it's impressive that you're willing to make the trip, but is this just for the transmission tests, or are you going to stay for the other and more difficult part where MS measures everything it takes to make a complete MS/4th-gen ECU? That's not a one-day adventure.
I have no problem with them running some test on the 99 Ecu if it helps to speed things up for when the manual car gets sent there. Perhaps the differences in the pins can be worked out with info from both cars.
Either way, an auto should be sent and tested to see if this will all work. I don't mind the drive.... I have the time off from work right now, but I honestly can't afford to get there and back on my own.
Andy
03-25-2013, 09:17 PM
#95
I sent Aaron a PM earlier today but have not heard back from him as of tonight. If I don't get the info I need by early tomorrow afternoon I will try and contact them directly. As far as I know I would be going down to get the TCU probed and see what information is being sent to ECU during driving and shifting of the auto. It is also my understanding that Aaron's or Jon's car in Houston ( a manual) will be sent at some point for the actual ECU tests.
I have no problem with them running some test on the 99 Ecu if it helps to speed things up for when the manual car gets sent there. Perhaps the differences in the pins can be worked out with info from both cars.
Either way, an auto should be sent and tested to see if this will all work. I don't mind the drive.... I have the time off from work right now, but I honestly can't afford to get there and back on my own.
Andy
That might work..
03-26-2013, 07:10 AM
#96
Don't get me wrong - it's impressive that you're willing to make the trip, but is this just for the transmission tests, or are you going to stay for the other and more difficult part where MS measures everything it takes to make a complete MS/4th-gen ECU? That's not a one-day adventure.
He is taking his car down only to find out if it's possible to make a PNP unit w/ auto tranny support.
If it's a yes then he'll return a happy camper and I will contact YOU about getting our test dummy car over to ATL again (Good news, I do have one free airtran ticket btw).
if it's a no, then we will be 6mt swapping yet another 4th gen and we'll be driving it over to there to be worked on.
Might, that guy is pretty shady IMO :metalmax:
03-26-2013, 08:41 AM
#97
I still have just the one donation for gas funds. Come on fellas, if you have an auto or not this is an opportunity that should not be passed on.
You can donate whatever you think is reasonable (as far as your personal interest in this project) to get this trip completed.
If I don't get some help I will not be able to do this. Plain and simple.
If I get more donations than needed then refunds will be issued to each donator on a percentage basis.
My PayPal is:
ABIGBRAIN@aol.com
Thanks again,
Andy
You can donate whatever you think is reasonable (as far as your personal interest in this project) to get this trip completed.
If I don't get some help I will not be able to do this. Plain and simple.
If I get more donations than needed then refunds will be issued to each donator on a percentage basis.
My PayPal is:
ABIGBRAIN@aol.com
Thanks again,
Andy
03-26-2013, 12:28 PM
#98
He's not the test dummy for the whole project, that car is here in houston.
He is taking his car down only to find out if it's possible to make a PNP unit w/ auto tranny support.
If it's a yes then he'll return a happy camper and I will contact YOU about getting our test dummy car over to ATL again (Good news, I do have one free airtran ticket btw).
if it's a no, then we will be 6mt swapping yet another 4th gen and we'll be driving it over to there to be worked on.
He is taking his car down only to find out if it's possible to make a PNP unit w/ auto tranny support.
If it's a yes then he'll return a happy camper and I will contact YOU about getting our test dummy car over to ATL again (Good news, I do have one free airtran ticket btw).
if it's a no, then we will be 6mt swapping yet another 4th gen and we'll be driving it over to there to be worked on.
Maybe one trip instead of two? Or do you need to be there for the ECU part? Andy?
Last edited by grey99max; 03-26-2013 at 12:32 PM.
03-26-2013, 12:37 PM
#99
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 344
If we can get Andy to MS in Georgia for the TCU "probe" (sounds like an alien abduction) and it succeeds, can he stay at MS while they dissect the rest of the car and figure out all those ECU things they need to know to make a Plug-n-Play ECU?
Maybe one trip instead of two? Or do you need to be there for the ECU part? Andy?
Maybe one trip instead of two? Or do you need to be there for the ECU part? Andy?
From what was said in the beg. is that they will need the car for about a month to figure everything...
03-26-2013, 12:41 PM
#100
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5
Matt from DIYAutoTune.com here; I registered to keep an eye on this thread and clear some things up. Ben and Kevin are handling the actual scheduling, but I can cover most of the questions, and explain what hasn't been determined yet.
This is going to be based on the MS3-Pro as we have determined the MS2 based system will not be a good choice for this particular application. Estimated pricing is in the $1500 range. If getting this to work with an automatic transmission requires a ton of extra work, that price will go up. We will go with the same $300 per ECU deposit requirement that we have been using for MS2 based MSPNP group buys.
It will completely remove the stock ECU.
We are looking into the unknown here, and don't know what we will find. It's unknown. We cannot guaranty we will be able to make this work.
This is likely to need a considerable amount of testing - I don't think Andy is going to want to stay for a month or two, which is a not-uncommon development time.
This is likely to need a considerable amount of testing - I don't think Andy is going to want to stay for a month or two, which is a not-uncommon development time.
03-26-2013, 05:24 PM
#101
Looks like this trip to Georgia is not going to happen as I would not be able to leave the car down there for the amount of time that it would take to "properly" probe the car.
I spoke with 2 of the gentlemen from DIYAutotune today and was given the timeframe it would take.... one day wouldn't be nearly enough to test the TCU let alone anything else.
It is with much sadness that at this time I will NOT be taking my auto to Georgia for testing.
The one donation that I received from Derpington for help with gas expenses will be refunded. Thanks again Derpington.
Andy
I spoke with 2 of the gentlemen from DIYAutotune today and was given the timeframe it would take.... one day wouldn't be nearly enough to test the TCU let alone anything else.
It is with much sadness that at this time I will NOT be taking my auto to Georgia for testing.
The one donation that I received from Derpington for help with gas expenses will be refunded. Thanks again Derpington.
Andy
03-26-2013, 07:43 PM
#103
Oh well maybe someone will come up with somethig else for us 4th gen-ers.. 1500 is out of the question for me since I have less than 1500 in mods (including 3.5 swap) and the gains wouldn't be worth 1300 more than apexi neo or emu for my individual application. Sorry guys 
03-27-2013, 06:02 AM
#104
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5
Sorry about the sticker shock, but this is going to require something like the MS3 based system we're currently developing for the Mk IV Supra to get the best results. Our MS2 based one would have been cheaper, but would require changing out the trigger wheel (and the VG30DE CAS is much harder to open up than the one in the SR20DET - the first time I tried it, I accidentally smashed the CAS to pieces), not have sequential injection on a V6, and would have no shot at automatic transmission control.
03-27-2013, 08:44 AM
#105
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 344
Sorry about the sticker shock, but this is going to require something like the MS3 based system we're currently developing for the Mk IV Supra to get the best results. Our MS2 based one would have been cheaper, but would require changing out the trigger wheel (and the VG30DE CAS is much harder to open up than the one in the SR20DET - the first time I tried it, I accidentally smashed the CAS to pieces), not have sequential injection on a V6, and would have no shot at automatic transmission control.
Last edited by max1008; 03-27-2013 at 08:47 AM.
03-27-2013, 09:04 AM
#106
what he said^ vq's and vg's are a lot different.. the newer maximas are very similar to our cars in how they run though. a few odd sensors and swap out the timing and it's a bolt-in swap
03-27-2013, 09:18 AM
#107
ohh boy 1500 + for a automatic thats not looking to good i guess their 1700 to 2100 for an automatic i dont now who in here would pay that maybe me but i still would need to think about it and alot of thinking.well lets not be surpised wat did u guys expect with this 20 year old timing equipment yes very old cars.
Last edited by Max streets; 03-27-2013 at 09:32 AM.
03-27-2013, 09:34 AM
#108
Sorry about the sticker shock, but this is going to require something like the MS3 based system we're currently developing for the Mk IV Supra to get the best results. Our MS2 based one would have been cheaper, but would require changing out the trigger wheel (and the VG30DE CAS is much harder to open up than the one in the SR20DET - the first time I tried it, I accidentally smashed the CAS to pieces), not have sequential injection on a V6, and would have no shot at automatic transmission control.
There's only been one ECU piggyback built to work with the 95-99 cam and crank sensors - the Greddy E-manage Ultimate - and that was done with Greddy working with DandyMax from this forum. It works with the MAF and other sensors of the 95-99 - but it's still a piggyback, and I don't trust piggybacks. That's why I still have a new-in-the-box Greddy EMU sitting in its box.
For what it's worth, Dan had scoped and recorded all the cam and crank sensors for Greddy and shared the PDFs with me - and they are on Photobucket for review. There are also links to the FSMs for the four years of Maximas available on-line.
I think we need this done. The transmission control isn't very complicated. I've built controllers for drag racing and dyno testing for this tranny, There are two shift solenoids for the four gears,and a line-pressure, over-run, and torque converter solenoid. The FSM has good documentation on how these all work and how the TCU controls them...
We need this, folks.
03-27-2013, 12:31 PM
#109
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5
We've got scans of the FSM through Alldata, but they don't have the full details on the signals between the ECM and TCM, or the pattern from the CAS.
03-27-2013, 01:58 PM
#110
My mistake. MS3 has the VQ35 and VG30 patterns in it already, and it doesn't look like the option on the MS2 where we swapped the metal disc on the CAS.
We've got scans of the FSM through Alldata, but they don't have the full details on the signals between the ECM and TCM, or the pattern from the CAS.
We've got scans of the FSM through Alldata, but they don't have the full details on the signals between the ECM and TCM, or the pattern from the CAS.
Here are links to the recordings that DandyMax made of VQ30 cam and crank sensor readings:
Last edited by grey99max; 03-27-2013 at 02:27 PM.
03-27-2013, 02:10 PM
#112
For Everyone:
Ok, so the final word is, no go on the auto? I am still unsure about this
For Matt:
I'm the person w/ the development vehicle ready to donate, the question is do we need to swap it to manual before we drive it over there?
And there are a few different crank patterns here Matt.
The one we are particularly interested in is the VQ30, which uses crank reference and position sensors on the flywheel and crank pulley.
Which Harold posted the gibberish, jibber, jabber graphs on (I have no idea what's going on up there
)
The VQ35 only uses one sensor on the flywheel and two cam sensors, one in each head.
For Harold:
Yes you may have made a replacement TCU controller, but the REAL question is..... What does the stock TCU need to see to function properly??
My Two Cents:
With the cost now mentioned it is quite expensive and even I myself may have to back out simply because the 3.0L is not making enough power to deem this ecu.
But I, FlipCapt and MightyMax will still continue to support this in my spare time like we have been.
No matter what, we need more aftermarket options and I'll do my part in ensuring that something gets done.
Ok, so the final word is, no go on the auto? I am still unsure about this
For Matt:
I'm the person w/ the development vehicle ready to donate, the question is do we need to swap it to manual before we drive it over there?
And there are a few different crank patterns here Matt.
The one we are particularly interested in is the VQ30, which uses crank reference and position sensors on the flywheel and crank pulley.
Which Harold posted the gibberish, jibber, jabber graphs on (I have no idea what's going on up there
)The VQ35 only uses one sensor on the flywheel and two cam sensors, one in each head.
For Harold:
Yes you may have made a replacement TCU controller, but the REAL question is..... What does the stock TCU need to see to function properly??
My Two Cents:
With the cost now mentioned it is quite expensive and even I myself may have to back out simply because the 3.0L is not making enough power to deem this ecu.
But I, FlipCapt and MightyMax will still continue to support this in my spare time like we have been.
No matter what, we need more aftermarket options and I'll do my part in ensuring that something gets done.
Last edited by aackshun; 03-27-2013 at 02:39 PM.
03-27-2013, 02:19 PM
#113
" For Harold:
Yes you may have made a replacement TCU controller, but the REAL question is..... What does the stock TCU need to see to function properly?? "
Agreed, I've never dived into that issue. That would take data logging of a lot of different things. RPM, TPS, MAF, vehicle speed, trans temp, engine temp, selected gear, and more....
I'm sure that MS knows what to look for - the question remaining is what to look for.
Last edited by grey99max; 03-27-2013 at 02:26 PM.
03-28-2013, 06:05 AM
#114
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5
And there are a few different crank patterns here Matt.
The one we are particularly interested in is the VQ30, which uses crank reference and position sensors on the flywheel and crank pulley.
The one we are particularly interested in is the VQ30, which uses crank reference and position sensors on the flywheel and crank pulley.
My Two Cents:
With the cost now mentioned it is quite expensive and even I myself may have to back out simply because the 3.0L is not making enough power to deem this ecu.
But I, FlipCapt and MightyMax will still continue to support this in my spare time like we have been.
No matter what, we need more aftermarket options and I'll do my part in ensuring that something gets done.
With the cost now mentioned it is quite expensive and even I myself may have to back out simply because the 3.0L is not making enough power to deem this ecu.
But I, FlipCapt and MightyMax will still continue to support this in my spare time like we have been.
No matter what, we need more aftermarket options and I'll do my part in ensuring that something gets done.
03-29-2013, 06:10 AM
#115
At this point, we don't know what it would take to keep the factory TCU operating correctly. There is not a final word on automatics, and would not be until we had a group buy go through and an automatic equipped test car examined. It would be better for us to check out a test car with an automatic than one swapped to manual.
-->: How so? I would need further clarification on this issue here.
We'd need to log this to determine what pattern is one in the current feature set. If not, we could probably arrange to have it added, although this will add a bit of time and cost to the development.
At this point, the price is something of a guesstimate as we don't have any finished MS3 based MSPNPs to compare it to, but I can say it looks like it will need to come in at higher than the $800-840 price tag for MS2 based MSPNPs. Expect to see a price point similar to other MS3 based MSPNPs when they reach production later this year.
----> Fair enough.
---->Well in the mean time until a decision is made the test car will be here in houston for the final decision, either going to GA Auto or Manual
-->: How so? I would need further clarification on this issue here.
We'd need to log this to determine what pattern is one in the current feature set. If not, we could probably arrange to have it added, although this will add a bit of time and cost to the development.
At this point, the price is something of a guesstimate as we don't have any finished MS3 based MSPNPs to compare it to, but I can say it looks like it will need to come in at higher than the $800-840 price tag for MS2 based MSPNPs. Expect to see a price point similar to other MS3 based MSPNPs when they reach production later this year.
----> Fair enough.
---->Well in the mean time until a decision is made the test car will be here in houston for the final decision, either going to GA Auto or Manual
Last edited by aackshun; 03-29-2013 at 06:13 AM.
03-29-2013, 07:06 AM
#119
I figure they would need 10 confirmed orders and being that 65% of those that have expressed interest in this product have automatics it stands to reason that the car being sent should be an auto.
Andy
Last edited by ABIGBRAIN; 03-29-2013 at 07:10 AM.
03-29-2013, 08:01 AM
#120
Yes, but will you auto guys be willing to spend near $2k on this product?
Doubt it.
So then we would have wasted a weekend, about $300 and my airline ticket.
So take that into consideration, you guys have contributed nothing but talk up until this point in time.
Abigrain your almost contribution does not go unnoticed, I'm sure the auto guys appreciate your consideration for attempting to use your time off to goto GA.... BUT! You see what happened when push came to shove? Only ONE person stepped forward w/ a contribution to help your trip, now you know why we over here are so uhmm what's the nice word for it... flippant? towards most of the people's wants.
The make things clearer....
The car is just a friend's extra car at their house, the manual swap are my parts being loaned out for this project to go through and the main benefactor of this project has a standalone TCU......
So to tell the truth, we really need to see less talk and more action from the automatic owner guys, such as Andy to really make sure the job gets done.
Better yet.....
Challenge Issued:
THE AUTOMATIC OWNERS COME UP WITH THEIR OWN VEHICLE
A. I want to see this ECU get developed
B. I don't want to risk wasting time and money on getting a car there and having the project dead in teh water because developing a standalone to function w/ the auto TCU because it's too expensive.
Tee hee... Just kidding, I'm a nice guy I sware.
Seriously though....
It would be nice if we had TWO 4th gens @ MS, one auto and one manual, that way something will get developed....
That's my bottom line, I want something to get done.
Doubt it.
So then we would have wasted a weekend, about $300 and my airline ticket.
So take that into consideration, you guys have contributed nothing but talk up until this point in time.
Abigrain your almost contribution does not go unnoticed, I'm sure the auto guys appreciate your consideration for attempting to use your time off to goto GA.... BUT! You see what happened when push came to shove? Only ONE person stepped forward w/ a contribution to help your trip, now you know why we over here are so uhmm what's the nice word for it... flippant? towards most of the people's wants.
The make things clearer....
The car is just a friend's extra car at their house, the manual swap are my parts being loaned out for this project to go through and the main benefactor of this project has a standalone TCU......
So to tell the truth, we really need to see less talk and more action from the automatic owner guys, such as Andy to really make sure the job gets done.
Better yet.....
Challenge Issued:
THE AUTOMATIC OWNERS COME UP WITH THEIR OWN VEHICLE
A. I want to see this ECU get developed
B. I don't want to risk wasting time and money on getting a car there and having the project dead in teh water because developing a standalone to function w/ the auto TCU because it's too expensive.
Tee hee... Just kidding, I'm a nice guy I sware.
Seriously though....
It would be nice if we had TWO 4th gens @ MS, one auto and one manual, that way something will get developed....
That's my bottom line, I want something to get done.
Last edited by aackshun; 03-29-2013 at 08:39 AM.