ohaple

So I have been a member a while, but havent posted in some time. I searched the problem, but only came up with snippets of info. here is the history

The battery and brake indicator lights came on. I looked it up, you guys said it was likely the alternator. We had the battery tested, then took it to a local garage. We replaced the alternator last time ourselves (5 years ago), but didn't want to tackle the job in the cold this time.

We take it to the garage, pay $50 for a diagnostic. They come back and say that the alternator is only putting out 7 volts, and needs replaced, like we suspected. They also noted that the cv joint boots are cracked. Since the car is worth little, we opted to only get the alternator and belts done (alternator and power steering). Up to this point the only problem we have seen is the lights come on, and the car dying because the battery was out of charge.

They fix it: $350 for the alternator, $50 per belt, and $180 labor. They charged less in labor than most around here, but overcharged on parts making it about a wash.

I got the car back, now the gauges and indicator lights are brighter. The stereo is barely putting out sound through 2 speakers, the car idles at 500rpm, when it used to idle around 800, and the car has died twice randomly, when sitting at idle. It starts back up fine however. Occasionally the check engine light comes on, but then goes out. They want to collect more money to diagnose the problem. We haven't authorized it, since it seems these problems are from the work they have done.

Do you guys have any idea what may be the issue after the fix? We are savvy, but not experts. I appreciate your input.

tigersharkdude

iTrader: (20)

If they wont check there work, I would never set foot in the place again.

It sounds like an alternator issue. Have you checked the connections?

Have you tried to check the codes? If the CEL is coming on, then it should be storing a code

ohaple

I still don't have possession of the car, they are changing the alternator a second time as we speak, at no additional cost (but only after we had to press them and threaten to reject the charge). They are claiming there are additional problems now. They claim that the original diagnostic was only for the electrical system (though for some reason they also checked the cv boots and reported that the engine was running "surprisingly well" for its age)

All we can figure is its could be the alternator, or maybe a belt that is too tight. They are also reporting now that the engine is misfiring, which does not align with the original report where the car was running "surprisingly well"

On another note, we looked at the alternator they put in, and it was a no-brand made in mexico rebuilt...

Good call on the codes. We will check it when we get the car back. You would think that would be the first thing a garage would do when they get the CEL on.

Any ideas besides the alternator? anyone want to second the alternator opinion?

ohaple

So an update in case it matters...
They changed the alternator again, with a different brand. They still report that the car is misfiring.
Working with the dealership is degrading as we go along, since they are tired of me being a high-maintenence customer and I am tired of them overcharging while not even fixing (or knowing) what the problem is. I am out $650 and more is wrong with the car than when I brought it in.
I am wondering if they are/were even using the right part... the gauge lighting were all working when I brought it in, now they report that bulbs behind the gauges are burnt out. I wonder if they burnt them out, and also possibly messed up a coil pack with a bad alternator the first time around. They still seem to not know what is wrong with the car, and are requesting I drive it for a week to see if I can repeat the symptoms of low idle and occasional dying.

Any tips? I appreciate your guys' advice. It helps me guide what my next move needs to be.

njmaxseltd

iTrader: (19)

Dispute the charge with the CC company until they make it run, like it did prior to the alternator failure. If you used American Express, this will be a home run.

saig

Belts too tight could put strain on engine which may die if it drops too low, throwing funny (not real) codes.

ohaple

Got the car back. Still running poorly. Checked the codes. Got a knock sensor code and cylinder 2 misfire. They did change the alternator to an ACDelco rebuilt this second time.

Decided to change the cylinder 2 coil pack. Since it is impossible to tell if this is an issue caused by their work or by the old bad alternator, I am not going to contest the charge. I will never go back to this garage because they seemed incompetent every step of the way. They are more concerned with volume of cars in and out than actually doing a proper job.
I did get my value out of the alternator, and the new one seems to be installed correctly and working.

Here's to hoping the problem is the coil pack. That's what it was last time we got these errors, and since it happened alongside the alternator I figure it's a reasonable bet

maxgtr2000

iTrader: (29)

Since I have had my car (2001) I never took it to a mechanic except for the alternator recall, and once to pass emissions. Mechanics charge quite a bit of money and it is usually uncalled for. I know they have to pay bills too, but it is worth it to find out how to troubleshoot and work on your own vehicles when possible. I thought my alternator went out once, but the idler pulley nut fell off causing the lights on the dash to come on, on a dark 25 degree morning. I went and got an alternator from the parts store for about $180. Found out the problem, got a nut for it and kept the alty.

A friend of mine, her altima needed a ball joint, they said she needed a new control arm. They charged $800. I replaced my control arm a few weeks ago. Control arm with Moog ball joint from Rockauto was about $62 shipped. 1.5 hrs from beginning to end of some wrench work and it was fixed. It pays to put in some time, watch youtube videos, and learn from this forum.

ohaple

Good advice max. This isn't a job that we couldn't do, we did it last time it went out, but considering we don't have a large garage and it is getting quite cold out, we figured the $300 difference in payment was worth the value this time.

Swapped the coil on cylinder 2 and now she runs as good as ever. It's an easy job if it's on the radiator side.

We still need to close the ticket with them I plan to give negative reviews. They should never charge a second $50-100 diagnostic fee for something like this (we opted to not have them do that, and do it ourselves) reading that code and throwing in the coil pack is not worth the $300 they would have likely charged.

I understand they have to earn a profit, but if I am paying $80 an hour for labor, I expect that person to be competent and fix the problem

cashoit

glad u got her running again man

ohaple

Thank you. Makes me remember why I bought the car to begin with. Feels great to drive

jfactor

I don't know where you guys are located but y'all are getting royally screwed by these mechanics, especially the tidbit about the $800 to have a control arm replaced.

klobbersaurus

im gonna have to side with the shop on this one, because you paid for $50 diagnostic fee, doesnt mean that they will go over your whole vehicle and tell you everything is wrong with it, the CV boot being cracked is something that can be seen visually

having a faulty alternator isnt something that would cause your coil packs to go, arent faulty coil packs a common issue with these vehicles?

ohaple

I would expect an electrical diagnostic to catch a check engine light coming on, and expect any mechanic to feel a constant misfire. The point is, they would have seen those. They didn't. Because they only happened after they had done their work. Another $50 diagnostic fee to check engine codes is ludicrous... Especially when it is something that cropped up after their time under the hood. It's ok, that's what AutoZone is for.

I suppose that it is entirely possible that the coil pack coincidentally went bad while it was with them in the shop but that just doesn't seem likely to me. In any case, we can't prove what caused it, so we just fixed the pack ourselves and went on our way.

I still think the alternator they originally put in was faulty in some way. Since changing it a second time, the stereo has normal output, the dash lights all work again, and with the misfire fixed, it is idling at a proper speed.

cashoit

There have been many instances of orgers getting faulty reman alternators from the parts store, so im not shocked you had to swap yours out again.

The mechanic, if they wanted your repeat business, should not have tried to charge you a second diagnostic fee.

Reality sucks

iTrader: (3)

I went through 3 remains in 3 Months.. bought a used oe been strong for 3 years now with no issues. I'm a master tech I work at a independant shop.. that's just the dealer for you.. sorry ab your luck. Hope you got it fixed.

ohaple

we got it fixed and going. Everything is fine now, but we had to really press them to fix the alternator without paying labor charges a second time. The problem with the shop I suspect is with the management. Seems they did the work properly, but they won't so much as say hello without marking down an extra fee.

I somewhat regret not doing it ourselves, but without a heated garage in the 30degree cold, it sounded miserable. When we work on my car we tend to overdo everything, cleaning every bolt we take out, checking torque specs etc.. so the last time we did it it took 5-7 hours. If it were summer I would have had no problem with it.

Thank you guys again for all your help in diagnosing this. It is great to have a sounding board.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

The coilpacks on the firewall side are just easy to do even though you can't see them at 1st. In fact, they may be easier to do than the front because with the front you have to remove that pretty cover first, then the coilpack. On the back, just remove the coilpack.

ohaple

We have done one on the firewall side too. Only found it more difficult because it is hard to reach back there, and we were doing the spark plugs too. Otherwise, yeah, its a pretty easy process.

klobbersaurus

electrical diag= battery, charging system, starter
drivebility diag= misfiring, stalling, rough running

what they should have done was checked your codes for free then ask if you wanted to pay to proceed with the diag

original alternator was probably good, you probaby had those issues before because of your coilpack

ohaple

Original alternator was only putting out half voltage, so it definitely was not good.

klobbersaurus

i meant the original one they put in

ohaple

Could be. I don't know enough to say, but the problems with the gauge lights and stereo were fixed when they changed it again.