IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Alright guys/girls, we need to put together an INTAKE dyno shootout.

I keep reading about how good an INJEN, PR CAI, Frankencar, Berk, Hybrid, POP, etc. is, but I'm not buying all these butt dynos. The ClubLexus board did this and it was pretty sucessful, so maybe we can give it a try. They failed in that they tried to make EVERYONE happy and thus did an incomplete job of testing. We can avoid this by chosing ONLY a few setups that are easy to do all at once AND NOT DIVERTING ONCE YOUR ON THE DYNO!

I propose testing a PR CAI vs. INJEN vs. Hybrid(Frankencar or Berk) w/Apexi filter. These seem to be the new kids on the block vs. the tried and true PR CAI.

What we NEED:
1)Someone with a PR CAI already installed and willing to put down SEVERAL dyno pulls all at the same time with a shop that's willing to allow swaping intakes while on the dyno(READ NOT BUSY!). Hardest part I think!

2)Someone to contact INJEN for a loaner. They did this for ClubLexus, but if not, I'm betting we can find a dealer on our board willing to help out *cough**Alex**cough**from**Southwest Autoworks**cough*.

3)Donations for dyno costs FROM MEMBERS. If we have 6-runs(2 per intake) that's got to be less than $150. So 15-members(14 including me) chip in $10 each. This will save EVERYONE a lot of money in the long run plus squelch all the "which intake is better" and "butt dyno this and that" posts.

4)A video camera to show all that happens once on the dyno to prevent arguements later. Plus, someone to host it of course.

Anyone think they can pull off #1? I think #2-#4 are easy.

MaxSE2k

My local shop charges $80/hr - unlimited runs. I've already got the PR installed, and am waiting on the Apexi filter. I'd be willing to be the test monkey. The concern here, would be running 6 times in an hours time span, I think that would lead to a case of 'heat soak'. So if we can raise enough for 2 hours, we can ensure that it'll be fine. If Franken or Injen can supply their own Apexi filter, it'll reduce the install/de-install time required so we can keep the process moving. So! I can do it...

Bags

iTrader: (3)

I am going to read the club lexus froum.. BUT...

what about the theory that it takes a few days for the ECU to "lear"
or adjust to the new intake?

I would LOVE to see this.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Man that was FAAAAAST! You ROCK! Your right an hour would be pushing it.

A VQ35DE won't provide the same results as a VQ30DE-K, so we may have to do this TWICE.

Doooh!

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

It won't matter if it's a 2k or 2k2. The point of the shootout anyway is to see which intake can provide the most power using one point of reference.

Additionally, if the ECU takes time to learn i'm not sure exactly how accurate the readings will be. Not to mention the power difference between intakes would probably be within 5hp of each other - a # that dynoing a single intake multiple times can produce.

If someone needs an Injen intake to run this i can probably help out with that and if the volunteer decides on going with the Injen i'll give it to him at cost.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the offer!

Also, a variation of the power curve after peak may show due to the breathing difference between the intake manifolds. The VQ30DE-K pulls to redline where as the VQ35DE doesn't. Except, a few claimed "high-end breathers".

IF the PR CAI and INJEN are actually restrictive in the top-end compared to a hybrid as SEVERAL people are claiming, it should show a difference especially on a -K which continues to make more hp to redline. I suspect the effects of the long "snorkel" tube of the PR and INJEN will be more pronounced on a -K, since the variable intake manifold is still providing more than enough air.

That's really what I'm hoping to determine from this, but this dyno show-down will provide LOTS of useful data for people to ponder.

MaxSE2k

You do the coordinating, and I'll do the testing... Simple as that!

Does anyone know if the top section (pre-MAF) portion of the PR CAI can be used alone - i.e. eliminating the 'snorkle' piece? I'd like to be cautious in the winter time and not have my filter kissing the snowflakes...

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

We'll see if we can get enough support to raise dyno funds.

Nismo87SE

When doing a test like this it is imperative to make the results as repeatable as possible. For one thing a data logger should be used. The engine coolant temp must be close to the same for each run or the results would be skewed. Also drivetrain losses should be measured and corrected. Pretty much just make sure the coolant temp is within 5*F on every run and allow the same amount of cool down time for each run too. Lastly it would be nice to get a MAF volt vs rpm trace going, it is just something that would be interesting .

PCGuRu2K

iTrader: (34)

I was actually one of persons that claimed losse of top end on the Injen. I can't seem to pull hard past 120mph. But with the PR Upper Tube w/Apexi Hybrid I was able to pull well past 130mph and still have more room to go.. I'm gonna swap back to the hybrid setup this weekend and go on i95 and rip it out. I'll let you guys know how the butt dyno goes..

acMAX

me too

MaxSE2k

Bump Bump Bump

Lets get some $$$ together and some manufacturer support. Maybe we can get Franken/Berk, Injen, and PR to flip the bill.

FYI - I took the snorkle section off of my PR CAI, leaving basically a Franken setup and it's definately much louder, but can't really tell if it pulls differently... Its for reasons like this we need to do this test. Come on y'all - lets do this!

silverkorn

iTrader: (3)

the first thing you should do is contact the companies and tell them what you are doing. some of them might give you a loaner or even just a flat out free one.

also someone should find a shop that will allow this dyno time without paying, because if you go in there saying you only have 2 hours to do all this then you are going to be rushing to get everything done. like someone said you have to make sure the car has enough cool down time and that takes time.

i think if you start going out and talking to people and seeing what kind of support you can get then see how much support you need from us this will be easier to do. just my 2 cents

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

I will say this again..

the Hot Air Intake will always win over a Cold Air Intake on a dyno because there are usually no Cold Areas of a dyno shop.. and the Cold Air Intake needs Cold Air.. hence the name to perform.. even a big *** Fan isn't going to show much difference.. you want to dyno a CAI.. dyno the car in a freezer..

Owners of PR CAI's will tell you if they are in the North.. that once November - March.. roll around.. the car is like night and day.. cold winter nights.. the car pulls like no tommorow.. and most people who run at tracks they tend to run from April to October.. yes. the hot months.. now how is a CAI suppose to shine in hot weather..

so basically if you live where its cold.. buy a Cold Air Intake.. if you live where its hot.. by a Hot Air Intake.. geez.. you would think the names alone would tell you that..

silverkorn

iTrader: (3)

all a CAI intake does is pull air that is not in the engine but directly from another location. even if you in a shop the CAI will pull in colder air cause its not taking in air from the engine.

also you drive the car with a hot air or short ram intake during the winter and you will notice a differnce as well, just not as large as the CAI.

the only reason the hot air intake pulls greater numbers is beacuse of the shorter tubing which allows for faster air flow. the long tubed CAI will decrease the hp numbers but you have larger tourque numbers in the bottom end, and like you said when its cold out it will do better. but so will the short ram intake because the engine area will be colder.

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

true.. but the colder the air.. the better the performance.. so where its 90 degrees in a dyno shop.. not more cold air available such as say a place thats 50 degrees.. so the dyno isn't really showing the true potential of the CAI in a hot dyno shop.. thats why i don't like dyno'ing CAI's vs HAI .. because then people use those numbers and go.. oh yeah the HAI is better because it yeilds just as much if not more horspower than the CAI.. and they take that to gospel..

silverkorn

iTrader: (3)

but in the end the HAI will always yield more hp simply for the fact when you are at high rpm's you want the short intake tubing to get a high velocity of air moving. the advantage of having a CAI is that you get low end torque, but at the higher rpm's the car wont be producing the same numbers as appose to one with a HAI, even if the air is cold outside.

this is what Honda did with their VTEC, at low rpm's the intake air travels a longer distance for low end torque and at a higher rpm's or when VTEC is engaged the secondary runners open up giving the air a shorter path to follow thus giving higher hp for the top end

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

I tend to disagree on that subject with a little stipulation "depending on conditions"

i have had my HAI setup and CAI setup.. and i tell you.. Nov - Mar .. that baby pulls like a bat out of hell .. i can from 80 mph pull all the way up to 110 mph with a CAI during cold times leaving it in 5th Gear.. but as soon as its hot day time.. its not as fast again.. thats why i love winter and my CAI

silverkorn

iTrader: (3)

see right there you have a conflict of two theorys
one being that colder air will yield more hp because of the denser air
the second being that CAI with longer tubing and lower air velocity will yeild lower numbers as compared to a HAI

i think the only way to truely test the two different intakes is not a chasis dyno but the other kind, i forget what its called.
kinda like a G-Tech Pro.

even with that you will have to do it in two different conditions, hot summer and cold winter.

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

as much as i would like that.. i despise G TECH..

i guess the only way is the butt dyno

yeah thats why i said that its best that if you live in Hot Temp Places get a HAI.. if you live in North get a CAI.. well thats if you don't mind switching the short setup for the HAI peformance during the summer.. or you could just get boost

silverkorn

iTrader: (3)

and why is that

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

I am a track guy.. and i know how it is when you are at the track.. your on that line.. your heart is pounding.. the skill it takes to launch the car.. everything the whole rush..

and i don't respect when car owners(mostly Type S Owners) come online and quote G Tech times and they have never been to a track in there lives.. i don't think its fair for some guy to run 13 seconds on GTECH while i am at the line getting my perfect 60ft and run the same time and he compare it to mine..

i know GTECH has more features than 1/4 mile time.. but i just don't like the product for that very reason

silverkorn

iTrader: (3)

yes i agree with you on that one, but the other features on the G Tech are also good. like the hp feature, although your weight has to be accurate. but the graking distance and the 0-60 is also good. and i cant forget the skid pad. but dont hate a product because of the people who use it and misuse it. this is a GUIDE and is no to be taken as gospel.

Bags

iTrader: (3)

I am a CAI supporter and I live in Atlanta, where it gets HOT in the summer.

BUT, sprint, I want to see this for 1 reason. The curves of the HP and TQ on the dyno.

The arguement is that a CAI makes it hard for the VQ to breathe in the upper rpm range. That will be answered from a dyno.

I am not to worried about a 2-3 HP peak, I want to look at the area under the curve.. but I am sure you know what I mean

Do I think it is the best test, no. As you stated a track would be best.

It is just hard to get consistant 60 ft times to make it fair. But I might be doing the track test myself.

And I think it would be best to do it on a 2000 or newer model or a 4th gen with a VI. That way the engine won't be "choking" itself with or without the intake

MaxSE2k

Ok - back to the funding... dmbmaxima (?) - are you willing to flip part of the bill for this? I'm going to contact PR and Injen myself to see if they'd participate in this test...

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Sorry to have dropped offline for awhile, but it looks like SprintMax kept it alive. Hehe.

I've gotten a little busy with "Johnny Law", but hopefully tonight I can get back on the ball.

I'm more interested in the PR CAI vs. INJEN vs. Hybrid for the TOP END restriction hoopla, so the cool air factor or lack there of on the dyno isn't a concern. However, the "shoot-out" will ALSO provide useful information for all the intakes, so it's not a waste of time.

MaxSE2k

I've contacted Steve @ Frankencar as well as Injen - waiting on a response from both. As previously noted, I've already got the PR installed so no further support from them is necessary. We may or may not need Frankencar to even participate depending on the response I receive from Steve. I suggested to him that for this test I used only the top pipe from the PR (which is very similar to his product) and mount the filter immediately after the MAF. If he agrees that this is similar enough to his product, then we'll be all set, and just need Injen to send a demo unit, and of course $$$$

Anachronism

If you guys have the dyno time you might want to try a filter with a velocity stack vs. one without but if you use the apexi it has one built in. If you get serious about doing this you might want to make a post in the general forum to see if anyone wants to help out.

If you want to know what benifits a CAI gives that the dyno does not show take a temperature probe and throw it in the end of the intake tube. I did this with my hybrid intake and with the results I got I am satisfied that having the filter outside the engine compartment would not make much of a difference.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Yes, it would be nice to do that. However, we need to keep this SIMPLE. If we had unlimited time on the dyno and MaxSE2K was willing to do dozens of dyno pulls(which I doubt), then I would like to put many debates such as MF vs. Apexi vs. K&N vs. K&N w/velocity stack and various HAI vs. Hybrid vs. CAI vs. INJEN to the test. However, we don't have the resources nor the support YET to even pay for 2hrs. of dyno time.

We should try and test a few of the MOST popular and debated setups first, before we worry about the gray area of velocity stack filters, which I too would be VERY interested in examining.

MaxSE2k

Hey - I'll go to the dyno shop as many times as people would like, and do as many runs as people would like - but I'm not paying for it all! I'll oay my share, and burn my gas, and beat on my car as long as others help cover expenses.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

God daaayyyymn. You are a GREAT guniea pig MaxSE2k.

Now we just need to get all the cheap fcks to chip in.

03BlkSETE

iTrader: (3)

Hi everyone,

This will be my first post even though I've been lurking here for months trying to learn as much as I can. I picked up my Max last night from the dealer. I've never been so nervous driving home. All of a sudden everyone seem to be driving to close to me, and that paint chip thread really had me freaking out. I never really noticed how much loose gravel there is on Staten Island.

Anyway, I'm very interested in the results of an intake test. I don't think I have the expertise to add anything relevant to the conversation but I would be willing to chip in to help fund this test.
I haven't really been involved in modifying a car since I was teenager when I used to race on Deer Park Avenue on Long Island. Everything seems much more complicated.

It's been great reading and learning from you guys. Hopefully I'll know enough to add my two cents in one day.

MaxSE2k

Welcome to the ORG.

Ice - thats 3 donors so far. You, me, and 03BlkSETE.

Colonel

to donate a FC intake. I will ship it to yas at no cost to the project.

Since I am being close to laid off, only thing that I can help out with

Oh btw, its for a 00-01 motor.

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

Err, i was and still am willing to loan a new Injen CAI for this test.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

WTF, Jon!?!?!

Sorry to hear that man. PM or email me.

Thanks for the offer, now we just need $$$$$$$.