BlehmCo kit installed - excellent
03-26-2004, 05:38 PM
#1
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BlehmCo kit installed - excellent
Well, I installed the "BlehmCo" brake kit today.....and am very pleased with the results, I must say. For those who don't know, this kit consists of mounting hardware so that you can use a 12.6" rotor from a 2k4 maxima with your stock calipers (since most BBK kits will not fit under our OEM 17's). Even better, this whole kit (including rotors) cost only about $300, not 1000+ like a full BBK.
A few notes:
-Everything fits perfectly. The bracket is quality stuff, no doubt about it
-I installed it and used the same brake pads (OEM) to see if there was a difference. There is a slight increase in braking power it feels like (probably due to the higher rotational torque), and even better it is smooth as butter.
-Then I switched to the new brake pads. After seeing how low my OEM pads were I ran to the nearest auto store and got front Bendix semi-metallic titanium pads. First of all, they were cheap ($30). Secondly, they make NO noise and have MUCH BETTER bite than the OEM pads. I haven't replaced the rear yet. Now I was VERY happy with the new setup
-Installation took about 1 hour+ for the rotors and another 1/2 hour for the pads....
-I had to take out one of the two shims on each pad. Since the 2k4 rotor is just SLIGHTLY thicker (0.5mm I think) I could not get the damn caliper on with the new pads and the doubled up shims. Doesn' seem to have made any difference as far as noise, etc.
-I love how the rotor fills up the whole wheel now....looks great, and the caliper clears the inside of the wheel by maybe an inch, so there's not much gap.
Overall, very happy with Matt93SE (Matt Blehm)'s creation, and I would recommend it to any of you! Here are some pics -
old (OEM) rotor:
new rotor (2k4 maxima)
compared:
with wheel on:
A few notes:
-Everything fits perfectly. The bracket is quality stuff, no doubt about it
-I installed it and used the same brake pads (OEM) to see if there was a difference. There is a slight increase in braking power it feels like (probably due to the higher rotational torque), and even better it is smooth as butter.
-Then I switched to the new brake pads. After seeing how low my OEM pads were I ran to the nearest auto store and got front Bendix semi-metallic titanium pads. First of all, they were cheap ($30). Secondly, they make NO noise and have MUCH BETTER bite than the OEM pads. I haven't replaced the rear yet. Now I was VERY happy with the new setup
-Installation took about 1 hour+ for the rotors and another 1/2 hour for the pads....
-I had to take out one of the two shims on each pad. Since the 2k4 rotor is just SLIGHTLY thicker (0.5mm I think) I could not get the damn caliper on with the new pads and the doubled up shims. Doesn' seem to have made any difference as far as noise, etc.
-I love how the rotor fills up the whole wheel now....looks great, and the caliper clears the inside of the wheel by maybe an inch, so there's not much gap.
Overall, very happy with Matt93SE (Matt Blehm)'s creation, and I would recommend it to any of you! Here are some pics -
old (OEM) rotor:
new rotor (2k4 maxima)
compared:
with wheel on:
03-26-2004, 05:52 PM
#4
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Xplayboy - it has no effect on the ride....just the braking as I stated in my monologue! The 2k4 rotors are (by my estimate) about 5 lbs heavier than the OEM 2k rotors, but I can't feel any difference.....
Ammi - the kit can be found at www.mattblehm.com
Matt Blehm is Matt93se here on the org. He also has an optional kit with a 300ZX caliper, but you need to have aftermarket 18's and up for that (or at least 17's with alot of clearance.)
Ammi - the kit can be found at www.mattblehm.com
Matt Blehm is Matt93se here on the org. He also has an optional kit with a 300ZX caliper, but you need to have aftermarket 18's and up for that (or at least 17's with alot of clearance.)
03-26-2004, 07:06 PM
#9
Sweet! Thanks for the feedback, I am confident my install will go as smoothly...
Please CLOSELY monitor braking performance for the next ~20-30K miles, we need to see how these perform over time...
For me that's like 6 months
, usually it takes around 3 months to feel warpage with the OEM-size rotors... I will be watching closely after I get mine installed (~1-2 months from now maybe)
Please CLOSELY monitor braking performance for the next ~20-30K miles, we need to see how these perform over time...
For me that's like 6 months
, usually it takes around 3 months to feel warpage with the OEM-size rotors... I will be watching closely after I get mine installed (~1-2 months from now maybe)
03-26-2004, 07:27 PM
#11
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to all who do this - 2 additional "trouble" notes:
1. The included hardward is for a 22mm (or was it 23mm) socket/wrench. Most people do not have this size in the ol' tool kit. The bolt heads on the OEM are only 19mm.....you cannot re-use them, so make sure you have bigger box-end wrenches available. I ended up using two adjustable crescent wrenches, which are a PITA.
2. BEFORE you bolt the bracket on, make sure the top bolt for the caliper mount (which will be loose at this point) is in the bracket. Once the bracket is bolted on, there is not enough clearance to put the top bolt through..(if you get the kit you will see what I mean)...I had to take it off and put the bolt through.
1. The included hardward is for a 22mm (or was it 23mm) socket/wrench. Most people do not have this size in the ol' tool kit. The bolt heads on the OEM are only 19mm.....you cannot re-use them, so make sure you have bigger box-end wrenches available. I ended up using two adjustable crescent wrenches, which are a PITA.
2. BEFORE you bolt the bracket on, make sure the top bolt for the caliper mount (which will be loose at this point) is in the bracket. Once the bracket is bolted on, there is not enough clearance to put the top bolt through..(if you get the kit you will see what I mean)...I had to take it off and put the bolt through.
03-26-2004, 07:29 PM
#12
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Originally Posted by soonerfan
the calipers are the same right?
just new rotor
just new rotor
03-27-2004, 03:11 PM
#13
Old Fuddy Duddy
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 2,712
Originally Posted by irish44j
to all who do this - 2 additional "trouble" notes:
1. The included hardward is for a 22mm (or was it 23mm) socket/wrench. Most people do not have this size in the ol' tool kit. The bolt heads on the OEM are only 19mm.....you cannot re-use them, so make sure you have bigger box-end wrenches available. I ended up using two adjustable crescent wrenches, which are a PITA.
1. The included hardward is for a 22mm (or was it 23mm) socket/wrench. Most people do not have this size in the ol' tool kit. The bolt heads on the OEM are only 19mm.....you cannot re-use them, so make sure you have bigger box-end wrenches available. I ended up using two adjustable crescent wrenches, which are a PITA.
03-27-2004, 03:42 PM
#14
Originally Posted by irish44j
2. BEFORE you bolt the bracket on, make sure the top bolt for the caliper mount (which will be loose at this point) is in the bracket. Once the bracket is bolted on, there is not enough clearance to put the top bolt through..(if you get the kit you will see what I mean)...I had to take it off and put the bolt through.
03-27-2004, 04:02 PM
#15
FYI, Matt Blehm provided a site detailing the install procedure:
http://mattblehm.com/5th_Gen_Relocat...t_Install.html
The top caliper mount bolt is supposed to be those "cut" bolts I think, they're cut to allow clearance... you put them in without tightening first.
http://mattblehm.com/5th_Gen_Relocat...t_Install.html
The top caliper mount bolt is supposed to be those "cut" bolts I think, they're cut to allow clearance... you put them in without tightening first.
03-27-2004, 05:05 PM
#16
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 177
I guess I'm missing something.
If the material is the same (looks pretty similar) and the caliper/pad combo is the same, there shouldn't be much, if any, increase in brake performance should there? I guess there might be a marginal improvement given that the caliper is now further from the center of the hub, thereby increasing the radius and potentially increasing stopping power, but it would seem slight at best.
Now, coupled w/ a different caliper and a larger pad set, I could see a significant inprovement due to increased surface area. but it looks, at least in this one case, like that's not the case.
Is it a looks thing ('cuz they do look better)?
If the material is the same (looks pretty similar) and the caliper/pad combo is the same, there shouldn't be much, if any, increase in brake performance should there? I guess there might be a marginal improvement given that the caliper is now further from the center of the hub, thereby increasing the radius and potentially increasing stopping power, but it would seem slight at best.
Now, coupled w/ a different caliper and a larger pad set, I could see a significant inprovement due to increased surface area. but it looks, at least in this one case, like that's not the case.
Is it a looks thing ('cuz they do look better)?
03-27-2004, 06:22 PM
#17
Originally Posted by 3Pedals_6Speeds
I guess I'm missing something.
If the material is the same (looks pretty similar) and the caliper/pad combo is the same, there shouldn't be much, if any, increase in brake performance should there? I guess there might be a marginal improvement given that the caliper is now further from the center of the hub, thereby increasing the radius and potentially increasing stopping power, but it would seem slight at best.
Now, coupled w/ a different caliper and a larger pad set, I could see a significant inprovement due to increased surface area. but it looks, at least in this one case, like that's not the case.
Is it a looks thing ('cuz they do look better)?
If the material is the same (looks pretty similar) and the caliper/pad combo is the same, there shouldn't be much, if any, increase in brake performance should there? I guess there might be a marginal improvement given that the caliper is now further from the center of the hub, thereby increasing the radius and potentially increasing stopping power, but it would seem slight at best.
Now, coupled w/ a different caliper and a larger pad set, I could see a significant inprovement due to increased surface area. but it looks, at least in this one case, like that's not the case.
Is it a looks thing ('cuz they do look better)?
03-27-2004, 07:50 PM
#18
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 177
Originally Posted by spirilis
The farther radius may make a small difference, true, but the real benefit of the BlehmCo is the larger, more massive rotor--the assumption is that a bigger rotor should help prevent the "warpage" our 5th gens experience so often.
I guess I'm back to the same point. They do look very cool, but is there a quantifiable performance improvement?
03-27-2004, 08:08 PM
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 301
Originally Posted by 3Pedals_6Speeds
By "massive" I can only assume you mean thicker since a larger radius (previously discussed) is also the result of the "massiveness" you mention. If so, what would that (thicker) improve, other than providing a longer life, and potentially more thermal mass within which to dissipate the heat from braking, thereby potentially reducing brake fade over time. Being more massive w/o doing something w/ that massiveness, doesn't help anything. Adding a larger caliper/pad set would take advantage of the increased swept area, using the old caliper and pad does not. In fact, increasing the unsprung weight by 20 pounds on the car isn't exactly helping.
I guess I'm back to the same point. They do look very cool, but is there a quantifiable performance improvement?
I guess I'm back to the same point. They do look very cool, but is there a quantifiable performance improvement?
In the mean time, there are 2 benifits that *should* be seen.
1. Better heat dissipation due to increased mass should result in less fade and longer life.
2. Braking "bite" should be marginally better because of the increaded distance from the center of the wheel. That translates to increased leverage. Applying the same force with increased leverage should be a good thing.
Somebody was working on numbers. Hopefully we'll know soon.
Once people have put a few miles on these, I plan to order my own set.
03-28-2004, 03:30 AM
#20
Originally Posted by 3Pedals_6Speeds
By "massive" I can only assume you mean thicker since a larger radius (previously discussed) is also the result of the "massiveness" you mention. If so, what would that (thicker) improve, other than providing a longer life, and potentially more thermal mass within which to dissipate the heat from braking, thereby potentially reducing brake fade over time. Being more massive w/o doing something w/ that massiveness, doesn't help anything. Adding a larger caliper/pad set would take advantage of the increased swept area, using the old caliper and pad does not. In fact, increasing the unsprung weight by 20 pounds on the car isn't exactly helping.
I guess I'm back to the same point. They do look very cool, but is there a quantifiable performance improvement?
I guess I'm back to the same point. They do look very cool, but is there a quantifiable performance improvement?
Second, a rotor with more mass, even if the rotor were not significantly bigger than stock, should run at a lower temperature due to the fact that there is more mass to contain the heat. (basic thermo--temperature is more or less an average of heat over mass). And temperature is our biggest problem--because we're pretty sure our stock rotors routinely reach temperatures which instigate brake pad material transfer. Remember, brake pads produce HEAT, not TEMPERATURE, the resulting TEMPERATURE is based on how much heat is produced and held by the rotor... But the fact that the 2k4 rotors are designed with a larger radius should mean that they dissipate more heat as well, since there is more surface area available for cooling.
I believe irish44j estimated the rotors are around +5 lbs over stock? So yeah, adding 10lbs of unsprung weight isn't exactly helping, but we'll see if it's worth the $$ in the long run. I'm thinking it'll be 6 months down the road until all of us BlehmCo BBK experimenters can come back with true results as to whether or not this setup works to eliminate "warping."
03-28-2004, 08:15 AM
#21
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A couple additional notes:
1. My "5lbs." estimate may or may not be accurate...I could not find a scale around the house that would measure the weights.....
2. An interesting possible side-effect - possibly due to the extra weight, I now find that wheel hop is almost completely eliminated, at least compared to before. Note I say "possible" since this was not a scientific measurement
By the way, spirilis, the "cut" bolt goes in the 2nd hole down on the bracket. If you are fitting it with OEM calipers, you have to have the cut bolt there - a full bolt head would rub against the undersde of the caliper. Sorry this is hard to explain and hard to take photos of!!!
Addendum: All said about braking performance, etc. I consider this a worthwile expense based on 1. the hope that it will eliminate warping/pad transfer (i.e. braking vibration) and 2. the fact that it LOOKS so much better than the wimpy OEM rotors. Heck, people spend way more than $300 on cosmetic mods all the time (body kits, tails, rims, etc...) so even if the 2k4 rotors only help cosmetically, still worth it in my book...
1. My "5lbs." estimate may or may not be accurate...I could not find a scale around the house that would measure the weights.....
2. An interesting possible side-effect - possibly due to the extra weight, I now find that wheel hop is almost completely eliminated, at least compared to before. Note I say "possible" since this was not a scientific measurement
By the way, spirilis, the "cut" bolt goes in the 2nd hole down on the bracket. If you are fitting it with OEM calipers, you have to have the cut bolt there - a full bolt head would rub against the undersde of the caliper. Sorry this is hard to explain and hard to take photos of!!!
Addendum: All said about braking performance, etc. I consider this a worthwile expense based on 1. the hope that it will eliminate warping/pad transfer (i.e. braking vibration) and 2. the fact that it LOOKS so much better than the wimpy OEM rotors. Heck, people spend way more than $300 on cosmetic mods all the time (body kits, tails, rims, etc...) so even if the 2k4 rotors only help cosmetically, still worth it in my book...
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