MAX2000JP

I agree and that was my point earlier. My front tires are worn, I know this, thus I don't drive 90 mph on the highway during a downpour. Drive within the limits of the car and your skills and you should have a good driving career.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I disagree with that logic. I drive how I drive, no matter if it's a rental neon/F150/Olds or my own car, I drive it like I stole it. That's just me and for my Maxima, I upgrade what I don't like or is lacking. Power wasn't lacking, however handling, shift throw, stereo, lighting, apperance, and brakes were.

I find the stock brakes to be inadequate for the way I normally drive and upgrading them is cheap, so I might as well.

If you guys think OEM brakes are fine for you, good for you, it's cheaper. They're not fine IMO if you push the car.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

http://www.stillen.com/brakepros_det...d=41349&page=1

MAX2000JP

I push my car extremely hard and find the OEM brakes fine. I know where and when to push my car though.

carnal_c30

iTrader: (38)

dude... first of all driving a 4 door I would even be more concerned about our crappy brakes... full load of friends or family coming down the mountain from vacation and guess what the stock brakes fade waayy to fast... a fully loaded 4 door needs better brakes than what we have... even my 65 yr old dad complains about the fading brakes and crappy brakes on his Cefiro in Taiwan same as the Maxima here... every morning driving down the mountain those brakes are absolutely worthless...

cool factor? wtf? exhaust is usually rice factor.... I could see a million civics with exhaust and crap but when i see one with some endless brakes or spoon brakes... dude thats cool factor... I drive next to all kinds of cars and people just stare and point at my brakes... if any one stares and points at your exhaust they're probably laughing at you...

just go and buy a bbk... you'll change your tune... you just dont understand, overkill is better than underkill... thats all I have to say, I rarely ever use the full potential of my AP brakes, especially not on the street, but hey I use them and they work a thousand times better than stock... I would have sold my Maxima junked that ish if it wasnt for the brakes

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

I push my car extremely hard and find I wish I had a Aston Martin Vantage

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Because on one had he was saying stock brakes are good enough. Then on the other hand, he was suggesting upgrading the brakes with ss lines and pads. He clearly states that oem brake are good enough. If that is the case, why upgrade at all? Cost never entered the discussion.

Once you bring costs into it, then yes, your point is valid. But I still fail to see how improved braking could be not suggested for those that choose to do it. I spent less than $1500 on my 17" wheels/tires and my entire frt/rear bbk system. Some here spend more than $1500 on wheels alone. I do believe my $1500 wheel/tire/brake system is benefiting me more than other people's $1500 wheels/tires only. To me, that is a great cost/benefit ratio. Especially when this bbk will fit under most 17" wheels and clear many wheels without spacers (if one is carefull enough about wheel choice)

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Maybe I push my car harder or I am less comfortable with the "at the limit" feeling of my brakes, so I feel OEM are not fine for my driving style.

I've driven many other vehicles the same way without concern on the same roads, yet I find the Maxima brakes to be underpowered for the weight of the car and my driving style.

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

What I mean Ice, is that suppose you were stuck with a rental Geo Metro (3cylinder)...I doubt you would be going 100+ mph and driving aggressively. Because you'd die

are better brakes safer? Sure. But if you don't have them, you have to drive within the limits of what you DO HAVE.

I'm not saying our stock brakes are great or even good. I'm saying, you drive to within the limits of your brakes UNLESS/UNTIL you can upgrade them.....

Even with the BEST BBK, I doubt you would go 100 mph toward a brick wall and try to hit the brakes 50 feet from the wall. Because you'd know it was not within the limits of the car to stop in 50 feet.

MAX2000JP

The S2K has 12" front rotors and 16 inch rims. You also have to remember that it takes more power to stop a heavier wheel, like an 18 or 19. The S2K was designed from the bottom up as a sports car.

The classification is important because that's how the car was engineered and tested from the factory. The C6 brakes were tested numerous times at the Nurburgring with various compounds and brake ducts. A computer on-board would let the engineers know the temperature of the brakes at different parts of the track. Thus thru this testing, the C6 comes stock with world class brakes. They are adequate for street and track driving.

Now, the Maxima was designed as a family sedan and never intended for racing. The OEM brakes are adequate for normal everyday driving, what they were engineered for. When adding HP, the OEM pads show their weakness. Upgrading the pads are a simple, cheap, and effective way to improve the OEM brakes when adding more HP. A BBK would be the next step if you plan on road racing or auto-xing.

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

well...there you have it.
THAT IS THE BOTTOM LINE, PRECISELY:

- change your car to fit your driving style

or

-change your driving style to fit your car.

you choose the first option. Others may want to choose the sencond option....that's the great thing about freewill

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Why be forced to drive within the capabilities of a car that has 165hp when your car has 265 hp? ie... one shouldn't be forced to drive within the limits of an inferior brake system if one doesn't choose to.

MAX2000JP

I don't know if you push your car harder, but I am comfortable in my driving skills. I am confident I can control the car in an emergency lane change. I am comfortable enough that if I can't stop, I know I have other ways around the obstacle. I have driven many cars and honestly if you compare our OEM brakes to a Z06, they are a joke, but again it's comparing apples to oranges
.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Honestly, I don't and I've crashed a couple times to prove it.

I drive whatever it is at the limit of my comfort level which is sometimes beyond the vehicles ability, so I'd rather have MORE then enough brakes then just being "okay", "fine", or "adquate". IMHO, the best thing you can go overkill on is brakes/tires/etc. that can haul you down when you brake at 120mph passing 4-5 semis in one shot and see a cop convention around the corner because of some RV fire on I95 out in BFE.

And I've had a Metro(Chevy LSI) at WOT down hill before to see what I could get out of her, ie little green b1tch.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Exactly, so saying OEMs are fine for anyone other then YOURSELF is false, since you can't know how others intend to push their cars.

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

I think one of the confusing aspects of this discussion is that some people are referring to "stock brakes" as the entire system (pads, fluids, lines, rotors, calipers) as opposed to "stock calipers"

BBK > Stock calipers w/SS lines and good pads > stock entire system.

of course it's suggested! Everything can be improved. I see guys on here who have BBKs and superchargers, and yet they have done little more for their suspension than lowering springs and maybe a FSTB!!! In my view, THAT is stupid. I'd bet that 90% of the 5th gens here are faster off the line than mine. But I'd also bet that my maxima holds the road better than 90% of those same faster maximas.

IMO, handling is the #1 safety upgrade to the maxima, based on the MANY shortcomings of our stock suspension. But I go into threads saying "what should my first mod be, guys" and 99% of the people are screaming "lighting" or "intake" or "y-pipe" and few people ever say "suspension" except when it applies to "wheel gap" or looks

on a side note, many maximas have 16" wheels also.....so the BBK is out...

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

That is fine.

Problem is one doesn't always have that option. I would rather have the ability to stop in the first place.

[/QUOTE]

As far as apples to oranges. If I can have apple brakes on my orange, so be it.

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

Jesus Christ...nobody is "forcing" anyone to do anything!

didn't I just say you can either mod your driving to suit the car OR you can mod the car to suit your driving

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I agree with everything you said.

My costs above includes the purchase of wheels and tires that accomodate the bbk.

MAX2000JP

Again, I have OEM rotors with PF pads, plus Valvo Synthetic fluid. On the street these pads are fine, if you drive close to the the speed limit, they are fine. I have done a few 80-0 stops, followed by 60-0 stops and experience no fade thru the brake pedal. I don't have testing equipment, so I couldn't tell you if the distance increased. I do know that the PF carbon metallics bite harder when warmed up a bit.

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

ok, from here on out I'm just observing, since this is a no-win discussion from either direction. I will do WTF I want with my vehicle, and Ice will do WTF he wants with his vehicle, and Jeff will do WTF he wants with his vehicle, and so on. All this discussion can really do now is turn into a flame-fest.....bye!

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

last word...just be happy we don't have drum brakes...

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

If the stock or near stock braking system is inadequate, then regardless of how you choice to drive, you are limited to the weakest point. In this case might be the braking system.

You did just say that yes. I choose to mod my car's brakes to match the car's power and handling. Other choose to not to and drive like grandmas.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Suspension is YOUR Maximas' biggest shortcoming in YOUR eyes, others with less intestinal fortitude or different driving styles may disagree.

My Maximas' biggest shortcoming IN MY EYES for my driving style is brakes, so OEMs aren't adequate.

So, "the bottom line" is fix what you feel is broke and don't tell others what you think should be changed on their vehicle, since you don't know their styles.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I would certainly hope that our modern cars are able to handle the speed limits set by the Gov't based on car technology that is 30 years old.

MAX2000JP

Here is Stoptech's reason why to for BBK's:

Why do I need a big brake upgrade?

Modern stock brake systems, for the most part, work well for a single 60-0 or 80-0 stop, and average daily street driving. The typical performance enthusiast will quickly push the stock brake system beyond its capabilities.


Driving style and other performance modifications such as increased horsepower, tire and suspension upgrades quickly add up to overpowering stock brakes. A big brake kit will provide increased heat capacity, which means substantially more resistance to brake fade and caliper distortion with multiple stops from high speed. A firmer pedal due to stronger and stiffer components, as well as better modulation characteristics under threshold braking are also typical with a properly balanced brake upgrade.

Note: You don't see them claiming a reduction in distance

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Okay, so now tell me how they'd hold up in my fully loaded car traveling 80, 90, 100+mph.

I don't drive the speed limit or near it, never have, never will, so your experience/opinion with "fine" may not be applicable, so more extreme braking may be warranted.

You can't say for all driving conditions OEM rotors/whatever pads/fluid will be fine nor can I say a XX size BBK will be. It is fact that if the BBK stops faster, shorter, more consistently, I will be safer with my driving style and that to me is well worth the cost.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

The 2000 maxima is heavier, has heavier wheels and still has smaller rotors. I still don't see how a heavier car gets demoted to smaller rotors when it's designed to haul heavier loads and carry more people than the S2000 will ever will.

It's great that the C6 gets great brakes. I wished the maxima could have them too.

Maxima was probably never indented to be modded. But look what we have here. An entire site with over 30,000 members doing just that. While the maxima might not have been "intended" for racing, it's clear that many of us drive it that way anyway. Or at least more more aggressively than it was "intended" for. At least my 3-gen with the "4DSC" was marketed that way. I don't suppose you have caught any of the 6-gen marketing lately?

MAX2000JP

Nissan didn't design the brakes to work at autobahn speeds. Again, if you drive like a normal person, the brakes are fine. At 100+ mph, your brakes wont save you in a vast majority of situations, nor will you most likely be able to control your car.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Not until you read my link that contained their bbk on the 350z.

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

dammit...I didn't want to talk about brakes anymore, but since you're talking about suspension .....

re: "intestinal fortitude"...handling aside, with everything I have on the car suspension-wise, the ride is MORE comfortable than stock. Not plush like a Buick, but "solid" and reassuring like a BMW. My buddy (who is NOT a car enthusiast and has a bone-stock 2k1 maxima SE) commented that my car was more "comfortable to ride in" than his (and we have the same seats, so he wasn't talking about that).

Excellent handling and good ride are not mutually exclusive.

...and I'm not "telling" anyone anything, just suggesting or opining based on my personal experiences.

me get out of this thread!

MAX2000JP

Cost was why Nissan didn't upgrade the brakes. When they redesigned the 5th gen, Nissan was in financial troubles. When tested in the mags, they stopped well, but my beef is that they warp too easily.

Just because something is marketed as a 4 door sports car, doesn't mean it to be true. Miller High Life is marketed as the champaign of beers, ever had it?

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

That's the whole POINT. Nissan designed the brakes with "adequate" and "cost" as their primary focus, which doesn't mean it's "fine" for enthusiast or idiots as myself who drive well beyond the posted speed limits.

So, saying they are "fine" for any possible driver or any possible situation is again false.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I guess "well" is a relative term. Not nearly "well" enough for me.

Nissan marketed the maxima as a 4 door sports car. If one markets a product as a sports car, how do you think buyers of that car will tend to drive it?? Regardless if the car is up to the challenge or not. Which again was my point.

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

let's all just be happy we have power-assisted brakes. Stopping my 1800-lb Triumph Gt6 with it's OEM 8.1" front rotors (and drums in the back) is 10x harder!

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I'm glad you found your Maxima nervana, I haven't and the OEM brakes/tires are next on my list.

MAX2000JP

I said they were "fine" for people not driving like jack@sses. Doing 100+ mph on the highways is stupid. Again, like I said before, just upgrade the pads to a more aggresive compound and SS brake lines first.

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

no such thing as "maxima nirvana"....I'm just done with the suspension....not brakes, engine, interior, or anything else

MAX2000JP

I know if Cadillac marketed the Escalade as a "supercar", I personally wouldn't be taking turns at 75 mph. Marketing and how a product actually performs are two different things.

BTW....I have a degree in marketing.

Larrio

iTrader: (10)

OEM brakes on a 5th gen may be adequate for everyday driving if you are by yourself. But if our family sedans are loaded up with passengers and cargo as "they were made", we come back to the problem of inefficient braking. You are talking a car that is heavier and with larger wheels running the same brake setup from the early 90's.

This 3200 lb car + passengers + cargo does NOT stop well enough even though I am driving below the speed limit because I know the car will not stop in time on the freeway. Upgrading pads and lines does not effectively compensate for those type of situations. And this is coming from me driving on almost every type of brake system out for the maxima (brembo bbk, ap bbk, cobra+TTz calipers, and TTzcalipers+mitsu rotors)