Phenolic Spacer Development for VQ35s
03-05-2007, 06:42 PM
#81
no disrespect but I came acroos these gaskets on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/02-04...9816QQtcZphoto
how much better quality is yours compared to these. Is it just the thickness?
how much better quality is yours compared to these. Is it just the thickness?
03-05-2007, 07:17 PM
#82
Originally Posted by inspiredbykev
no disrespect but I came acroos these gaskets on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/02-04...9816QQtcZphoto
how much better quality is yours compared to these. Is it just the thickness?
how much better quality is yours compared to these. Is it just the thickness?
Humm those dont look to bad , but i dont know about buying something like that on ebay.
Anyone ever look thru the altima forums if anyone has these or anything similar .
Im just gona buy the ebay ones if this doesnt go through soon , cause I gotta change my plugs soon and im gona be takin my I.M. off so i wann get these done..
03-05-2007, 07:24 PM
#84
Originally Posted by inspiredbykev
no disrespect but I came acroos these gaskets on ebay
how much better quality is yours compared to these. Is it just the thickness?
how much better quality is yours compared to these. Is it just the thickness?
03-06-2007, 07:34 PM
#86
Originally Posted by inspiredbykev
no disrespect but I came acroos these gaskets on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/02-04...9816QQtcZphoto
how much better quality is yours compared to these. Is it just the thickness?
how much better quality is yours compared to these. Is it just the thickness?
They are made of 1/16" thick soft plastic (I believe Nylon 6) which is not rated for more than 230 degrees. My material is rated close to 300 degrees and is MUCH MUCH MUCH harder!
These spacers on the eBay auction are meant to be installed below the lower IM. They can't be any thicker than the stock gaskets b/c of the slant of the intake ports on the heads. It won't match up if it's a 1/4" thick.
Also, according to NisMax03, the gaskets were poorly matched to the intake ports on the heads. Most likely, they were just a scanned copy of the stock gasket. He said they didn't line up correctly to the ports and overhung the edge of the port, obstructing the airflow.
My spacers will be a perfect replica of the actual design of the intake manifold itself. I don't copy gaskets. Stock OEM intake gaskets are never port matched. My spacers are designed to line up with your intake ports perfectly for optimal airflow.
The VQ35DE Spacer kit should consist of two 1/16" thick lower IM spacers, a 1/4" upper IM spacer, 1/4" elbow spacer, and a 1/4" throttle body spacer.
Epacy, about the FSTB. That is something I noticed with NisMax03's car. He has a FSTB and it's already touching the top of his elbow collector where it meets the upper IM. He had to add some washers to raise the bar up.
So the only way to make it fit still would be to raise the bar up 1/4" somehow. I've determined with NisMax03's FSTB, it will still clear the hood if it's raised a 1/4". The only problem now is not being able to lengthen the strut studs that the bar mounts to. So maybe new ET style nuts will be needed along with the FSTB spacer for the nuts to be able to thread on. In the future, if there is demand for it, I can add this as an optional kit.
What do you guys think? Anybody got some other ideas to solve the FSTB issue?
03-06-2007, 08:22 PM
#87
I'v got a good inch or so between my bar and the elbow. I do have the ES motor mounts that lower the motor a bit though. There seems to be some room to grind the elbow down some to make it clear. It's not like it's a stressed part.
I'd just make it clear that it may interfere with some strut tower bars and let us figure it out as we go. We could grind a little and shim the STB with some washers to make it work. That's part of moding any way. Offering an optional kit to raise the bar seems like a good idea too.
I'd just make it clear that it may interfere with some strut tower bars and let us figure it out as we go. We could grind a little and shim the STB with some washers to make it work. That's part of moding any way. Offering an optional kit to raise the bar seems like a good idea too.
03-06-2007, 08:30 PM
#88
I don't think raising the FSTB with washers is a great idea. Unless you want to screw up the threads on the bolts there. You should put nuts underneath then washers then use nuts on top again... IMHO
03-06-2007, 08:40 PM
#89
Originally Posted by knight_yyz
I don't think raising the FSTB with washers is a great idea. Unless you want to screw up the threads on the bolts there. You should put nuts underneath then washers then use nuts on top again... IMHO
Step one is to get these spacers developed!
Derrick, I looked closely at the elbow and I don't see how you can grind down more than an 1/8" of material without damaging the threads used to hold the elbow to the Upper IM. Regardless, grinding should be a last resort. Most people want to make their engine bay look pretty.
03-07-2007, 03:37 PM
#90
Originally Posted by Aaron92SE
NisMax03 met me this past week in order for me to design the kit for the 3.5L. He has a set of these installed on his car right now.
They are made of 1/16" thick soft plastic (I believe Nylon 6) which is not rated for more than 230 degrees. My material is rated close to 300 degrees and is MUCH MUCH MUCH harder!
These spacers on the eBay auction are meant to be installed below the lower IM. They can't be any thicker than the stock gaskets b/c of the slant of the intake ports on the heads. It won't match up if it's a 1/4" thick.
Also, according to NisMax03, the gaskets were poorly matched to the intake ports on the heads. Most likely, they were just a scanned copy of the stock gasket. He said they didn't line up correctly to the ports and overhung the edge of the port, obstructing the airflow.
My spacers will be a perfect replica of the actual design of the intake manifold itself. I don't copy gaskets. Stock OEM intake gaskets are never port matched. My spacers are designed to line up with your intake ports perfectly for optimal airflow.
The VQ35DE Spacer kit should consist of two 1/16" thick lower IM spacers, a 1/4" upper IM spacer, 1/4" elbow spacer, and a 1/4" throttle body spacer.
Epacy, about the FSTB. That is something I noticed with NisMax03's car. He has a FSTB and it's already touching the top of his elbow collector where it meets the upper IM. He had to add some washers to raise the bar up.
So the only way to make it fit still would be to raise the bar up 1/4" somehow. I've determined with NisMax03's FSTB, it will still clear the hood if it's raised a 1/4". The only problem now is not being able to lengthen the strut studs that the bar mounts to. So maybe new ET style nuts will be needed along with the FSTB spacer for the nuts to be able to thread on. In the future, if there is demand for it, I can add this as an optional kit.
What do you guys think? Anybody got some other ideas to solve the FSTB issue?
They are made of 1/16" thick soft plastic (I believe Nylon 6) which is not rated for more than 230 degrees. My material is rated close to 300 degrees and is MUCH MUCH MUCH harder!
These spacers on the eBay auction are meant to be installed below the lower IM. They can't be any thicker than the stock gaskets b/c of the slant of the intake ports on the heads. It won't match up if it's a 1/4" thick.
Also, according to NisMax03, the gaskets were poorly matched to the intake ports on the heads. Most likely, they were just a scanned copy of the stock gasket. He said they didn't line up correctly to the ports and overhung the edge of the port, obstructing the airflow.
My spacers will be a perfect replica of the actual design of the intake manifold itself. I don't copy gaskets. Stock OEM intake gaskets are never port matched. My spacers are designed to line up with your intake ports perfectly for optimal airflow.
The VQ35DE Spacer kit should consist of two 1/16" thick lower IM spacers, a 1/4" upper IM spacer, 1/4" elbow spacer, and a 1/4" throttle body spacer.
Epacy, about the FSTB. That is something I noticed with NisMax03's car. He has a FSTB and it's already touching the top of his elbow collector where it meets the upper IM. He had to add some washers to raise the bar up.
So the only way to make it fit still would be to raise the bar up 1/4" somehow. I've determined with NisMax03's FSTB, it will still clear the hood if it's raised a 1/4". The only problem now is not being able to lengthen the strut studs that the bar mounts to. So maybe new ET style nuts will be needed along with the FSTB spacer for the nuts to be able to thread on. In the future, if there is demand for it, I can add this as an optional kit.
What do you guys think? Anybody got some other ideas to solve the FSTB issue?
Sounds good. I'm definitely interested. I'll keep my eye to see when you start selling them or pm me.
03-07-2007, 06:07 PM
#91
Also, just grinding down, however far you can, while the car is sitting there turned off isn't going to exactly solve your problem, as the engine will move/shift during operation.
The idea about spacing up the FSTB has been mentioned before. I could see it working, don't know if there would be possible negative side-effects.
Not sure if aftermarket struts have longer studs than OEM. What kind of struts were you working with Aaron92SE?
The idea about spacing up the FSTB has been mentioned before. I could see it working, don't know if there would be possible negative side-effects.
Not sure if aftermarket struts have longer studs than OEM. What kind of struts were you working with Aaron92SE?
03-07-2007, 08:23 PM
#93
Originally Posted by Epacy
What kind of struts were you working with Aaron92SE?
Originally Posted by maxspeed96CT
Since these should be done soon, whats the estimated price ?
I have the parts I need on their way as we speak. As soon as I get the manifolds from another org member, I will develop the CAD drawings. Once that is complete, it shouldn't be more than 10-14 days to get the first run in my posession for testing. Then my very eager test vehicle volunteer will drive to my shop and we will do all the testing and dyno runs in one long day. Then within a day or two, the product should be available for sale if everything goes smoothly.
I hope you guys can hang on a little longer. I am working all day, every single day to get these made!
03-08-2007, 06:50 AM
#96
Originally Posted by Aaron92SE
I still have not completed the design of these spacers. So at this time, I have not gotten CNC price quotes. The pricing will be solely dependant on the CNC pricing since they are 90% of the costs.
I have the parts I need on their way as we speak. As soon as I get the manifolds from another org member, I will develop the CAD drawings. Once that is complete, it shouldn't be more than 10-14 days to get the first run in my posession for testing. Then my very eager test vehicle volunteer will drive to my shop and we will do all the testing and dyno runs in one long day. Then within a day or two, the product should be available for sale if everything goes smoothly.
I hope you guys can hang on a little longer. I am working all day, every single day to get these made!
I have the parts I need on their way as we speak. As soon as I get the manifolds from another org member, I will develop the CAD drawings. Once that is complete, it shouldn't be more than 10-14 days to get the first run in my posession for testing. Then my very eager test vehicle volunteer will drive to my shop and we will do all the testing and dyno runs in one long day. Then within a day or two, the product should be available for sale if everything goes smoothly.
I hope you guys can hang on a little longer. I am working all day, every single day to get these made!
Waiting, but hopeful! Thanks for the effort you are putting forth for the community, it doesn't go unnoticed.
03-09-2007, 09:39 AM
#97
Update: Who has an OEM lower IM gasket laying around that they can accurately measure the thickness of?
A vernier caliper will probably be needed to satisfy my perfectionist quality. If I can get this measurement, it will speed things up a bit since I won't have to order one from the dealership. Thank you!
A vernier caliper will probably be needed to satisfy my perfectionist quality. If I can get this measurement, it will speed things up a bit since I won't have to order one from the dealership. Thank you!
03-10-2007, 04:21 AM
#99
Originally Posted by Aaron92SE
Update: Who has an OEM lower IM gasket laying around that they can accurately measure the thickness of?
A vernier caliper will probably be needed to satisfy my perfectionist quality. If I can get this measurement, it will speed things up a bit since I won't have to order one from the dealership. Thank you!
A vernier caliper will probably be needed to satisfy my perfectionist quality. If I can get this measurement, it will speed things up a bit since I won't have to order one from the dealership. Thank you!
03-10-2007, 01:10 PM
#100
Originally Posted by knight_yyz
3.00 mm or .118" measured with a micrometer because I'm a toolmaker who is pickier than you 
NisMax03 is sending me his original OEM gaskets just so I can get my hands on a set in order to base my designs off of.
Thank you for the measurement!
03-10-2007, 07:31 PM
#103
Originally Posted by knight_yyz
Sorry I forgot to mention, the gasket I have is nextgear lower IM gasket. I figured if theirs fit no problem then 3mm is a good starting point. I don't see a problem with going 1/8"
03-11-2007, 08:04 PM
#108
Originally Posted by maxspeed96CT
How much longer do you think till these are availible?
I am sorry about this. If I have all the parts I need right now, I could have them ready and tested in less than 4 weeks as I estimated before. But I'm waiting on parts to come in still. I am doing everything I possibly can to get these made as fast as possible!
I can't really say an estimate. But if everything goes smoothly and I get these manifolds before this week is up, then I hope 4 more weeks. That is a FAST turnaround for CNC machining! Most CNC machine shops have a turnaround of 4-6 weeks! My guy can do it in less than 7 days on some occasions! He knows how important my deadlines are!
03-11-2007, 08:20 PM
#109
Well since you seem to have these getting down and what not; I will definitely be up for buying these from you once they are all said and done. Some sort of group buy in the for sale forum? since I will get these I might as well put in brand new spark plugs which would make sense. What do you think of copper gaskets instead of OEM? I used copper gaskets on my old car and they were great. Only slightly thicker than OEM but they were much better quality.
03-11-2007, 08:33 PM
#111
Originally Posted by Decoy036SPD
Well since you seem to have these getting down and what not; I will definitely be up for buying these from you once they are all said and done. Some sort of group buy in the for sale forum? since I will get these I might as well put in brand new spark plugs which would make sense. What do you think of copper gaskets instead of OEM? I used copper gaskets on my old car and they were great. Only slightly thicker than OEM but they were much better quality.
Other companies go with softer material that doesn't last nearly as long and overtime, will take the shape of the surrounding material. I know first hand since I have experience with the softer plastics such as teflon and Nylon 6. My first prototype spacer was made out of teflon and I ran that in my car for over a year. When I pulled the spacer out, the teflon softened a LOT and took the shape of the intake manifold. So it can't be really used again without an excessive amount of RTV. Nylon 6 has a much lower impact strength than teflon too.
But I use a very high quality type of phenolic laminate that will outlast the motor and is rated at a much higher temp than Nylon 6, which is what most other companies use. The best nylon is good for up to 230 degrees. When compressed, the max temp is usually lowered. So after time, the material should soften and start to break down.
But my material is good for up to close to 300 degrees. If your motor gets that hot, you have bigger problems to worry about, like a cracked block!
03-11-2007, 10:06 PM
#113
Originally Posted by Decoy036SPD
what about a throttle body spacer?
I think the addition of a throttle body spacer would be very nice.
I think the addition of a throttle body spacer would be very nice.
All those combined should yield a decent gain!
03-12-2007, 08:12 AM
#114
Originally Posted by Aaron92SE
That will be included in my kit. Right now, I believe there will be 5 spacers in the 3.5L kit. Two phenolic lower IM gaskets, one phenolic upper IM spacer, one phenolic elbow collector spacer, and one phenolic throttle body spacer.
All those combined should yield a decent gain!
All those combined should yield a decent gain!
03-12-2007, 12:28 PM
#115
Originally Posted by Aaron92SE
That will be included in my kit. Right now, I believe there will be 5 spacers in the 3.5L kit. Two phenolic lower IM gaskets, one phenolic upper IM spacer, one phenolic elbow collector spacer, and one phenolic throttle body spacer.
All those combined should yield a decent gain!
All those combined should yield a decent gain!
03-12-2007, 07:48 PM
#117
Originally Posted by maxspeed96CT
this may sound like a dumb question....Buy should i get my safc retunned after this modd??
it technicly does change air flow? kinda?
it technicly does change air flow? kinda?
03-12-2007, 07:49 PM
#118
Originally Posted by maxspeed96CT
this may sound like a dumb question....Buy should i get my safc retunned after this modd??
it technicly does change air flow? kinda?
it technicly does change air flow? kinda?
It might alter AFR, since technically, the air is denser, therefore there is more of it per unit of volume, so in affect, you are increasing airflow.
03-12-2007, 08:12 PM
#119
no need to re tune the car.. and I seriously doubt it effects the air flow. it is only changing the ambient temperature of the engine and air charge. at most it will change the airflow in the slightest amount.