Are all MOOG parts upgrades?
#121
I have a 2000 Maxima and took it into a shop today because it has vibration at different speeds, sometimes at 35-40mph and always between 65 to 80. They quoted me 650.00 for parts, labor and alignment for doing the both outer tierods and the left inner tierods. How bad is this quote? And if I plan to get my own parts, am I only looking for the inner and outer tierods assembly? Also are there anyhting else that I need to check like ball joints or wheel bearing?
All in all. I think the quote is fairly reasonable at today's labor rates if they install good parts. Ask your friends if they can recommend a shop they like. Better yet, hit up the local Maxima guys and see if someone wants to turn a wrench for you for a couple hundred.
#122
FCPimport has a GroupDeal on a kit with control arms(with balljoint and bushings), tierods, and sway bar links for $140 shipped(call Ellison). Perhaps, you can call your local alignment shop and see if they'll let you bring the parts. I would think you could find a shop to do the labor with alignment for $350/500. Be nice to have new control arms in there as well for the same price.
All in all. I think the quote is fairly reasonable at today's labor rates if they install good parts. Ask your friends if they can recommend a shop they like. Better yet, hit up the local Maxima guys and see if someone wants to turn a wrench for you for a couple hundred.
All in all. I think the quote is fairly reasonable at today's labor rates if they install good parts. Ask your friends if they can recommend a shop they like. Better yet, hit up the local Maxima guys and see if someone wants to turn a wrench for you for a couple hundred.
Thanks, I will check out the kit. I usually do my own work on my max but have never done anything with these parts.
#124
Im going to this job myself tommorow, I know at least the outers. This doesn't seem hard at all. Im going to go the hobby shop on base and get a lift and it should go by quickly, then I just need to take it to get aligned.
#125
Moog advertises that all their parts as "problem solving" which means those Oem parts that had weaknesses and issues were redesigned to be vitually bulletproof, by use of polyurethane bushings, extra heavy duty bearing surfaces w/lubrication, heavy duty provisions, etc! No doubt even their balljoints and tierods are stronger and longer lasting units due to the boot material and bearing size!
#126
BTW, the noise was most likely either the end-link or the ball-joint, both of which were pretty thin on grease. And good thing that we put it on the lift to eyeball the situation, because my passenger side wheel bearing is getting loose, and I may not have been aware of this until next Spring otherwise.
Related? Actual cause for that (temporary) noise? I have no idea, but good to know about it now and get it replaced before it becomes a more significant issue.
#127
OK...I'm actually on a confrence call and didn't read this entire thread.
I have changed my lower ball joints, wheel bearings, and strut mounts with MOOG parts. Not only that, but I also chagned my struts out with Tokico Blues. I still hear this clunking noise that's driving my crazy.
My mechanic says I need rotors, which I already knew but I was trying to wait and get a BBK and rims/tires all at the same time. BUT...I need them asap. Anyway, my mech says I need outer tie rod ends. GO FIGURE! So, I'm embarking on that journey this weekend. This clunking noise is driving me crazy
I have changed my lower ball joints, wheel bearings, and strut mounts with MOOG parts. Not only that, but I also chagned my struts out with Tokico Blues. I still hear this clunking noise that's driving my crazy.
My mechanic says I need rotors, which I already knew but I was trying to wait and get a BBK and rims/tires all at the same time. BUT...I need them asap. Anyway, my mech says I need outer tie rod ends. GO FIGURE! So, I'm embarking on that journey this weekend. This clunking noise is driving me crazy
Last edited by exandr; 04-20-2011 at 01:53 PM.
#128
I've adopted a philosophy (kind of) that's been beaten into me by my mechanic, and a few of the mechanically-inclined guys here on the Org, and that is to replace things like this when they start to go bad, because you've got time.
However, my personal experience with front-end parts over the last 18 months is that once they start to go, it's like a cascading series of failures. End-links... ball-joints... tie-rod ends... wheel bearings.
Take from that what you will.
However, my personal experience with front-end parts over the last 18 months is that once they start to go, it's like a cascading series of failures. End-links... ball-joints... tie-rod ends... wheel bearings.
Take from that what you will.
#129
My last set of Moog ball joints only lasted 6months. I am very disappointed. I know they are under warranty, but it doesn't cover the cost of the install, or time lost if you do it your self, alignment etc...
#130
i've been using MOOG parts for many years now, and recommend them to all my customers over other aftermarket parts that are available on the market.
My main reasons for MOOG parts over other aftermarket counterparts are:
1. better in design
2. greesable
3. good warranty
4. priced well compared to oem
5. descent fit and finish
This goes true for all of their suspension parts, and I've done all of them, inner/outer tie rods, ball joints, etc.
When you are trying to compare to OEM, then I would not necessarily consider these an upgrade per functionality as I like the fit and finish of most OEM products, the longevity of OEM is adequate, the most common different from OEm parts is the price as these tend to be pricier than MOOG parts. Every once in a while you can find a descent price on OEM suspension parts that are comparable to aftermarket, but in general they are much more.
Hope this info helps.
My main reasons for MOOG parts over other aftermarket counterparts are:
1. better in design
2. greesable
3. good warranty
4. priced well compared to oem
5. descent fit and finish
This goes true for all of their suspension parts, and I've done all of them, inner/outer tie rods, ball joints, etc.
When you are trying to compare to OEM, then I would not necessarily consider these an upgrade per functionality as I like the fit and finish of most OEM products, the longevity of OEM is adequate, the most common different from OEm parts is the price as these tend to be pricier than MOOG parts. Every once in a while you can find a descent price on OEM suspension parts that are comparable to aftermarket, but in general they are much more.
Hope this info helps.
#132
I must add my experience with MOOG.
Sway bar end links on my 4th gen:
Came loose 3 times after install. Finally lock-tighted the living crap out of them and got them to stay tight.
Ball Joint on my 4th Gen:
No problems
Sway Bar end links on my MX-6:
Lock tighted first time around, Came loose after install, lock-tighted AGAIN, stayed tight for 5000 miles, then broke.
Ball Joint on my Grand Am:
Different style, but no issues.
While they are bigger, they are surely not better (end-Links). I would take an OEM replacement over a MOOG any day of the week. They are mass-produced, and I feel, in the same league as Monroe products. That said, they do the job on the cheap. Upgrade though? No, they aren't.
Also, the fact that they're greasable is great for old school guys. Personally, I don't want to have to grease my car every oil change or every second oil change. Greasable joints cause more failure than non-greasable, that's a proven fact. The reason is, they don't get greased properly and in the right frequency, they get over greased, or under-greased. Also, the greases used are normally cheaper generic 'chassis' greases, which do not do as good of a job as the lubricants used in non-greasable type links.
Also, because they're greasable, the components are not made as well, or from the same quality of material, because they rely on the grease to form the barrier between the steel and do the 'work'. Non greasable components HAVE to be built better, with better components, because they work 'dry'
Sway bar end links on my 4th gen:
Came loose 3 times after install. Finally lock-tighted the living crap out of them and got them to stay tight.
Ball Joint on my 4th Gen:
No problems
Sway Bar end links on my MX-6:
Lock tighted first time around, Came loose after install, lock-tighted AGAIN, stayed tight for 5000 miles, then broke.
Ball Joint on my Grand Am:
Different style, but no issues.
While they are bigger, they are surely not better (end-Links). I would take an OEM replacement over a MOOG any day of the week. They are mass-produced, and I feel, in the same league as Monroe products. That said, they do the job on the cheap. Upgrade though? No, they aren't.
Also, the fact that they're greasable is great for old school guys. Personally, I don't want to have to grease my car every oil change or every second oil change. Greasable joints cause more failure than non-greasable, that's a proven fact. The reason is, they don't get greased properly and in the right frequency, they get over greased, or under-greased. Also, the greases used are normally cheaper generic 'chassis' greases, which do not do as good of a job as the lubricants used in non-greasable type links.
Also, because they're greasable, the components are not made as well, or from the same quality of material, because they rely on the grease to form the barrier between the steel and do the 'work'. Non greasable components HAVE to be built better, with better components, because they work 'dry'
#134
4th gen and 5th gen Chassis is so damn close to the same that comment is irrellevant.
All components were properly installed and torqued to spec. I have never had an issue with any other End link except the MOOG, they are the ONLY end link I've ever had come loose or break prematurely.
Just throwing my .02 out there of course. May be isolated incidents.
#135
I'm back to a clunk in my front-end after only about 3k miles.
I still need to replace the inner tie rods, some engine mounts (fore and aft) and likely my sway bar bushings again.
But it seems like I'll need to get back under the car and re-tighten all my previous torquings.
i love my car, but DAMMIT I'm tired of this sloppy suspension feel, despite ALL the money and effort I throw at it!!
gr
I still need to replace the inner tie rods, some engine mounts (fore and aft) and likely my sway bar bushings again.
But it seems like I'll need to get back under the car and re-tighten all my previous torquings.
i love my car, but DAMMIT I'm tired of this sloppy suspension feel, despite ALL the money and effort I throw at it!!
gr
#137
I CAn FIX it...I have an AWESOME set of tools!!
Ironically -- just last week, i tried to track-down my "favorite" mechanic at the local Nissan dealer, and unfortunately --he's not THERE any longer!!
gr
#138
#139
Did the fast times at ridgemont high quote just TOTALLY escape you?!
c'mon, I KNOW you remember that one!
The point of that statement was, yes John -- I'm about to stop pissing about with it myself, and turn it over to a pro.
We can't all be as lucky as you to have such an awesome wrench at our behest, that KNOWS how to tune as well!
Feel the love, man! Give a brotha a break, will ya?!?!?
gr
#140
Yep, I totally missed that movie quote. Damn it.
"Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it."
~ Jeff Spicoli
"Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it."
~ Jeff Spicoli
#141
I've adopted a philosophy (kind of) that's been beaten into me by my mechanic, and a few of the mechanically-inclined guys here on the Org, and that is to replace things like this when they start to go bad, because you've got time.
However, my personal experience with front-end parts over the last 18 months is that once they start to go, it's like a cascading series of failures. End-links... ball-joints... tie-rod ends... wheel bearings.
Take from that what you will.
However, my personal experience with front-end parts over the last 18 months is that once they start to go, it's like a cascading series of failures. End-links... ball-joints... tie-rod ends... wheel bearings.
Take from that what you will.
Over the years, I've come to that realization as well. So, I look at it like this...it is what it is. On lunch, I picked up tie-rod ends. The only thing left is end-links. I'm patiently waiting.
#142
Also, because they're greasable, the components are not made as well, or from the same quality of material, because they rely on the grease to form the barrier between the steel and do the 'work'. Non greasable components HAVE to be built better, with better components, because they work 'dry'
Fact: Greasable parts are the only realistic solution for trucks pulling 80,000 lbs and easily running for 600,000 miles without replacing any critical stock parts.
Source: Working for these guys.
My MOOG end-links were installed... in October? I am going to regrease them this weekend just 'cause I can't remember what quality the grease was we squirted in upon install. They aren't making any noise or giving any indication that they're not still working perfectly six months and ~6000 miles after the install.
Last edited by Eirik; 04-23-2011 at 07:39 AM.
#143
Riiiiiight, which is why vehicles like this: have greasable points ("zergs" as they call them) all over the thing: Suspension, fifth-wheel; you name it--it's got grease.
Fact: Greasable parts are the only realistic solution for trucks pulling 80,000 lbs and easily running for 600,000 miles without replacing any critical stock parts.
Fact: Greasable parts are the only realistic solution for trucks pulling 80,000 lbs and easily running for 600,000 miles without replacing any critical stock parts.
I was referring to Automotive applications only, but I did not specify that at all. And the main reasoning behind my statement was the fact that the components fail due to lack of grease or overgreasing.
Most Greasable automotive components are built cheaper than their non-greasable counterparts, this is not necessarily true of heavy applications, which, by the way, DO experiment with non-greasable parts, mostly on higher-end trucks.
You're correct about your statements though.
And It's "Zerk Fitting" I believe, your Moog component has a "zerk fitting" too, it's a Grease fitting's alternate name, named by it's founder.
#144
It is zerk, I typo'd.
I find no reason to believe that grease-able components are flimsier than their non-grease-able, "sealed" counterparts. I guess you're being sarcastic, but when critical items such as all u-joints on those ridiculously heavy driveshafts are greased, I fail to see why grease fittings are inferior to sealed variants, regardless of the application. If you take care of the component, you can get as much life out of grease-able variants--sometimes much more than the new-fangled "hermetically sealed" stuff.
Ha. Hermetically sealed.
I find no reason to believe that grease-able components are flimsier than their non-grease-able, "sealed" counterparts. I guess you're being sarcastic, but when critical items such as all u-joints on those ridiculously heavy driveshafts are greased, I fail to see why grease fittings are inferior to sealed variants, regardless of the application. If you take care of the component, you can get as much life out of grease-able variants--sometimes much more than the new-fangled "hermetically sealed" stuff.
Ha. Hermetically sealed.
#145
Sometimes I think we over-analyze this stuff way-y-y too much. And I'm as guilty as the next guy here, I know that.
But they're basic hardware on a mid-range sedan. I'm sure both designs are equally satisfactory.
But they're basic hardware on a mid-range sedan. I'm sure both designs are equally satisfactory.
#146
It is zerk, I typo'd.
I find no reason to believe that grease-able components are flimsier than their non-grease-able, "sealed" counterparts. I guess you're being sarcastic, but when critical items such as all u-joints on those ridiculously heavy driveshafts are greased, I fail to see why grease fittings are inferior to sealed variants, regardless of the application. If you take care of the component, you can get as much life out of grease-able variants--sometimes much more than the new-fangled "hermetically sealed" stuff.
Ha. Hermetically sealed.
I find no reason to believe that grease-able components are flimsier than their non-grease-able, "sealed" counterparts. I guess you're being sarcastic, but when critical items such as all u-joints on those ridiculously heavy driveshafts are greased, I fail to see why grease fittings are inferior to sealed variants, regardless of the application. If you take care of the component, you can get as much life out of grease-able variants--sometimes much more than the new-fangled "hermetically sealed" stuff.
Ha. Hermetically sealed.
Yeah, the key point there is "If you take care of the component". Greasable fittings leave it up to Human diligence, and there in lies the issue.
That's all I'm trying to get across really. OEM components (on small-mid sized vehicles) are non greasable, most OEM suspension components are designed to last at least half the life span of the car. With my past experiences and quite a few others, the Replaceable greasable suspension components just don't compare to that.
All that said, I do have a MOOG ball joint. I do grease it every once in a while, and I haven't had a problem. If Money was no object though, I would take the OEM component over the MOOG any day. Or even, a NON-greasable over a Greasable. No question.
#147
#149
Yeah it wasn't the cost I was implying the overall additional work, as well as the general goopy, slimy, greasy nature of the job. The combination of which makes it unappealing, as such, it's something a lot of people would avoid, or 'push off'. Whatever though, even if you only grease them on install, the'll still be good for quite some time to come before they show any signs of wear.
Except the end links. I would never buy another one of those cheap *** endlinks again. Just my experience.
#150
I think you should change your member title from the default, "Senior Member" tag, to the far more entertaining, "Slimy Grease Guy".
Barring that, maybe something for your side business.
Barring that, maybe something for your side business.
LED Magician
2 Bright 4-Words
Slow and Sparkly
2 Bright 4-Words
Slow and Sparkly
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
MR2 T'd
5th Generation Classifieds (2000-2003)
6
07-09-2021 05:06 AM