Ooops, just spotted this in the initial description:

Flanges are 3/8" billet pieces, whereas the competition uses thin, flimsy STAMPED STEEL flanges.

Maybe this refers to the 2.5" imported catbacks (many have floppy flanges) but since we're the only other company making a 3" exhaust, I've got to wonder if its directed at Cattman Performance.

If so, I'll have to set the record straight. Our exhaust flanges have always been made from 3/8" carbon steel plate (a more rigid steel than the type typically used for CNC milling because it will chew up the tooling) and are nickle plated for corrosion resistance. CNC milling is one way to make a flange, but offers no functional advantage over more cost-effective methods like flame, laser or water-jet cutting, etc.

We put flanges at the end of every tubing section except for the required slip fit on top of the axle (and we provide a top-quality clamp for that) and they're welded full-circle to the tubing. Might seem like a wild extravagance to some, but I think flanges are real useful for easy, accurate assembly and creating tight, gasket-sealed connections.

 

Just to elaborate since you think it is directed towards your company. I took the post from this thread http://forums.nicoclub.com/new-exhau...sx-t48608.html and tweaked it for the Nissan Maxima. We all understand you make a top notch system, and so does BRM.

You guys need to understand that this is a prototype, it seems like some of you are trying to discredit BRM here. I'm sure after the amount of exhaust systems he's sold, it would be very obvious if he was trying to cut corners. I checked the circumference of the muffler inlet to the rest of the 3" piping and IT IS A 3" inlet. Checking the circumference works almost as good as a caliper. I used speaker wire to check it so there is minimal flex. Do you guys want me to show a video proving it? I'm not hiding anything, I took a direct picture of it to show the built quality.

BRM uses a muffler that is bought wholesale from Magnaflow it is similar to the 14221 unit but obviously the tips are closer and are built in from factory.

I'm being as helpful as I can here but it seems like a tag team to put this exhaust out of business. Yes it uses a smaller resonator and muffler. Once installed I will have videos guys, just be a little patient, I have finals and am graduating next week and I am Uhauling most my stuff out of my apartment this weekend. I am very crunched on time, that's why I took it to a shop to install but $150 is too much for me.

 

"This is an exact unit you'll be purchasing but with no bung and better hangers"

Okay... I have not seen any comment here about the only prototypical elements - the port and hangers - all discussion has been around the "exact unit you'll be purchasing". I assume this is text taken from the nicoclub ad?

When pictures are taken, prices are listed, and a ordering phone provided its reasonable to assume that this is the final product and comment accordingly, and here you've confirmed that is the case (other than the hangers and the port that needs to be an option for 2000 Fed-spec Maximas).

You have not been attacked, nor has anyone else, but once you get in this game - and you have, unwittingly or not, by posting this - you can't have thin skin. This isn't Greg's first rodeo and he knows how this process works.

If the comment about floppy flanges was directed at the imported junk, fine, all I did was make it clear (to anyone else who got the wrong impression) that the flanges we use meet all necessary standards.

You are being helpful to Greg Childs, which is fine, but keep in mind that if a product is not well conceived (I'm saying this generically, not specifically targeted at this "prototype") then its definitely not helpful if your fellow max.org enthusiasts invest in something they are not happy with. There is a long history of that sort of thing happening on this forum.

What is the circumference of the inlet stub? Anyone can see from the picture that the 3" tubing attached to the muffler doesn't seem to be significantly expanded, yet the female end does not fit tightly over the male end and welding material fills that gap.

Brian

 

I’m going to say it first because I know once the videos are posted there will be the ultimate question. What are your other mods, do you have headers, etc.

No, the OP does not have headers. Now that we're done with that ...

This system will sound SIGNIFICANTLY different with headers, so when the vids/sound clips are posted, let’s keep that obvious comment to ourselves and assume we all know this and wait patiently for someone with a header’d Maxima to chime in and post clips/vids of that.

And as we went through this exercise with Brian's system, sound on a computer and not "live" is and will always be subjective.

I've cleaned the thread up as best as I thought.

Measurements, sound clips, dynos, track times, pics, airflow data, personal experiences and any other items of interest still to come.

Happy Modding, congrats on graduation, good luck, and .....

This ...

 

And I'll just toss out that until somebody can show otherwise, I'm going to take others at their word and assume that this special production unmarked Magnaflow muffler can has a 3" inlet.

Feel free to provide a circumference measurement for confirmation, but maybe the picture we've seen is just misleading in some way. I'd rather give someone the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise and I don't want to seem like a jerk about this.

Brian

 

Cattman u know the whole inner diameter, outer diameter thing got me at first when i built my 3'' cat back i always thought your systems were 3'' inner diameter so thats how i built mine. Then i found out from Cmax03 i PMede him he told me it's the outer diameter thats 3'' why not do it that way .

 

i think we should have a jousting match between the two companies using B pipes for lances- the winner will rule 3" supreme!

I personally could give a rats a$$ about anything other than price, sound, performance, & durability- all other factors are insignificant and open to "opinion"( I guess sound falls in that realm as well). And I doubt we'll ever get honest results for that.

 

Sorry if I haven't been clear, but tubing is always measured OD (and pipe is always measured ID), and all of my references are based on that convention. However, when we start talking about male and female fitments, it has to involve the ID measurement of the female end. The point I was trying to make is that you can see that the ID of the female end is noticeably larger than the OD of the male end. You can see that because of the large sloped welding bead that fills the gap - it would look very different if the male end fit tightly inside of the female end.


My friend, I don't get hung up on esoteric, subjective aspects of exhaust design and that's not the nature of this discussion. The factors being discussed here relate directly to performance, fitment, non-leakage, durability and other issues that are measurable and very real aspects of customer satisfaction.

 

Ok on a serious note so the male end would be the pipe it's self and female is the inlet on the muffler. what the slug is on were the pipe meets muffler.... Spackle

 

When the tubing diameters are the same, either end could be male or female, but in terms of optimal flow, the upstream section will be the male end, and the downstream section will be the female end. This is so the exhaust isn't going against the exposed edge of the male end, but instead flows with and over it.

I wish I could illustrate this on a blackboard, but hope this conveys what I'm thinking about.

 

Ok i get what your saying cuz when i took my muffler to the shop they had to expand the hell out of my muffler inlet cuz i asked for them to build me a 3'' id cat back the piping it's self swallowed the muffler inlet, so they had to expand it to go over the piping so the exhaust isn't going against the edge. the muffler was an 3''od

 

I need clarification on this. Are you saying that you've measured the Outer Circumference of the Muffler Inlet Pipe? That should have produced a measurement of about 10", is that correct?

If you didn't get that measurement, then it's not 3" Pipe.

If it's 2.75" Pipe Inlet, then the 3" tube would have slid over it snugly (not the way it SHOULD be done, but would work)

If that's the case, Outer Circumference would be about 9.4".

If you got a measurement of less than 10" (which I suspect you did, if you measured the Outer Circumference properly), then the inlet is not designed for a 3" exhaust.

If you got a measurement of less than 9.4", (again, I suspect you got less than 9.4" based on the picture) then the muffler should simply not be used on 3" exhaust, it's not only not designed for it, but it's too much of a gap to reasonably fill.

Again, I am not biased one way or the other, but I think this needs to be clarified.

 

OK so were are we at, so the cat back is a 3''OD and the muffler isn't . Cuz by the look of it it's not . I called up this greg guy and he's going to shot me a price on the cat back with out the muffler and you would get the full piping and resonater this way we could have choose of different muffler combos

 

Tunermaxima2000, I know you gave this some careful thought, but I think you are "overthinking" it. If the inlet tubing stub coming into the muffler is rated as 3", then it will actually be 3" OD (w/ an approx 9.4" circumference). Their is no dimensional allowance for how one tube will be coupled to another.

As far as switching mufflers, remember that the tubing has been configured to meet this muffler at a certain spot in 3D space. Without changing that configuration, one would be limited to substituting muffers with more or less identical dimensions, particularly in the position of the inlet tubing stub.

 

I'm going to go buy a caliper just for this then return it of course (college student here).

 

Hey, math is math (or in this case, geometry). If you can accurately measure the circumference with something that doesn't stretch, then that's just as good as a caliper. Obviously you'll want to measure at the base of the stub that's attached to the muffler and not include any welding material. I assume there's enough exposed tubing there to do that, I'd have to look at the picture again to remember.

 

catt man the guys running the 2.5 ebay catt back they switch out to all diffrent kind of mufflers with little to no modification

 

I'm not taking jabs- I apologize if it seemed that way. I am all for Cattman products, you make solid pieces and are a good person.

I am just saying that I doubt we'll get a true comparo on the pieces where it counts- the numbers(you've done your part and you exhaust pieces are proven and solid- I am just awaiting this other system's numbers much like everyone else).

 

Here you guys go, it's 3 inches. If the picture isn't clear enough I'll post another but I tried my best in the Ace hardware parking lot

 

hey nishfish. Any chance you'll be able to get some dyno's before and after install?

 

and some vids with idle, start up, standard drive by and WOT drive by

 

Not before but after can be worked out.


I will do it all, plus some highway pulls.

 

are your mods going to be only intake and exhaust? No BOP, UDP or spacers etc? Just wondering what kinda numbers to expect

 

That's correct 3" WAI intake, the BOP is in the mail so that will be included if I dyno.

 

I thought this was the prototype?


And this was the production version?


If the Inlet you measured is a 3" than is your tubing fwd of the rear muffler 3.25" or 3.5" it way bigger than the Muffler inlet? Which it will slide into like all Magnaflow muffler do.......Maybe that's .375" slack all the way around!


Can't wait to hear it...... It Should be a real eye opener!

 

Both those pictures are the same. Greg sent one to me before he shipped it, then I took one when I received it.

 

How big is the muffler on that looks kind of small but maybe its just the picture..

 

From the pics, it is smaller than Cattmans as well as the resonator. Still looking forward to hearing how it sounds.

 

There's an extra tube acting as a sleeve around the inlet and the 3" tube is over it!!!! I see 3 tubes in your picture......

 

^ I see that too, wow good eyes, I overlooked that at first glance.

 

If you look at the end of the piping before it was welded, you can see knurl marks, most likely caused by pipe expanding. It would explain how its welded over the muffler; pipe gets expanded, slipped over the muffler, then welded as opposed to expanding the muffler inlet stub and possibly damaging the muffler itself.

I wouldn't imagine that 1/8" radius of steel impeding OH SO MUCH exhaust flow, Brian, since only ONE connection was done in reverse flow. Even by the looks of the picture of the inside welds connecting the over-the-axle pipe to the muffler, the transition is smooth.

As solid as the Cattman y-pipes that have internal flex-section failures? -___- Just saying.

Why would that middle sleeve even matter? He measured 3" o.d. closest to the body of the muffler, which you can see in the previous picture, doesn't show a "sleeve" welded that I can see on the outside. If you speculate that he did weld a "sleeve" very close to the main body of the muffler from where he measured on the outside and we can't see it.. I highly doubt that because the two welds on those seems don't match up.

 

i thought about you at 1st but the reason i think they had that written is because this company was doing like 3" for 240's n other cars and was moreso talking about the competition within the other market vs maximas and you... if not i would have to agree with you that they were taking a shot at you, but not to worry, i doubt anybody would question what is said towards you or not... no harm no foul... well to you at least

i say lets not put down one company for the other... great stuff on both ends... i wish we have more competition with performance parts... makes for a better market

 

Well the weird part is that I've been installing Magnaflow products for awhile now close to 10 yrs....If the muffler which was measured (you can't really see the calipers touching both sides of the tubing in the pic) was really a 3" inlet...Magnaflow expands all there mufflers inlet as the female that the pipe will slide into! No need to worry about spreading and damaging it, they come expanded from Magnaflow for ease of installation since you apparently don't know that!!!! So let's say the inlet is really a 3" and it's expanded already how big is the freaking pipe fitting over it? and WHY would you not slide the pipe into the muffler inlet to decrease any turbulence you may be creating? It is, what it is,... no skin off my back nor a$$ just stated the facts and wondering why there's seems to be a conflict in the story concerning it's component's specifications....Carry on, and at Ease! We'll wait and see how everyone likes it.... It has a price that ain't all that cheap for the materials/hardware/component involved in the assembly, but hell BRM might have a real hit.....

 

I am going to make a video of this, so it can be easier to see everything. I couldn't get it installed this weekend because I'm having trouble raising my coilovers (one of the front coils is seized in place).

 

Its funny how the second something is made that cattman makes everybody gets into a defensive stand and tries to find a dumb reason why the product is inferior to cattman vs embracing the fact that somebody took the time out to make a 3" catback for us... I'm not much a fan of the tips however if I was to own a 5th gen ill be buying these over he cattman... both great stuff...

 

Okay, "so let's say the inlet is really a 3" and it's expanded already" .. Why would anything else matter if you still have a consistent 3" INSIDE DIAMETER of flow.. where's the turbulence? No skin off my back nor a$$ either, just stating the obvious.

This is exactly my point GHustle. Thanks for beating me to it.. So what IF its got a very minor flaw. We're lucky enough to have another company to even attempt a bolt-on 3" catback for a far better price for our cars.

Okay there may be a mistake at that weld, why wouldn't they just slip the pipe in if you say the Magnaflows are 3" id? Idk, but its their first run and the guy is coming from the 240 community in hopes to offer us another great performing product on a budget.

The FIRST catback hasn't even been installed yet and everyone is nit-picking already..

 

^ this.

No need to put down another product before we have a chance to see what it can do. 5th gen maximas definitely need more performance parts options and I'm just glad that we're getting them. Haven't mentioned anything the whole time I've been reading this thread for updates, but I think it's better to just let the results speak for themselves.

meant that as a reply to ghustle simply. You ruined it -_-'

 

Finally some support. Just be patient guys I'm really slammed with school right now. 18 credits is not fun when it comes to finals week. I'm dying to hear the exhaust just as much as you all are.

 

Im confused by your very last statement. Who ruined it? Not being offensive, just wondering.

 

email from greg childs rbm about 3'' cat back with opition of no muffler price

Ok, got it...$360 shipped.
On Apr 23, 2011 1:40 AM, "Greg Childs" <greg@nicoclub.com> wrote:
> Hey, my apologies. I should have the info by Monday, my fabricator is out
> for a few days.
>
> Sorry about that!
>
> Thanks -
>
> Greg
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 8:23 AM, <y914nickyclashez@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> 3'' Aluminized cat back without muffler for 2003 nissan maxima you said u
>> would get back to me on price
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/#!/NICOclub
>
> www.nicoclub.com - The web's largest and most active Nissan enthusiast
> community.