essential1

iTrader: (5)

I wanted top stay out of this thread because of the title. But I couldn't resist the temptation. It's exactly as I pictured. Lol

aackshun

iTrader: (3)

Grand_hustle17

iTrader: (22)

suger spice n everything rice!!!!!!!! lmao!!!

Mr. Brett

iTrader: (7)

Egh. What the hell is all this crap??

LI_Max_WOT

iTrader: (9)

I did get a kick out of that. But damn you people love your gifs or whatever they are... You want my trade secrets for free? If you're good at something, never do it for free. ~ The Joker... VOLUMETRIC EFFICIENCY is the answer.. stock setup does more in less space than headers... if you want more details go get yourself a book

I've got a new mod, never seen before, which will be released very soon. I bet ya no one has it. I wonder if tuner will want it.....

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

Good sport, good sport.

well, I dunno what you're up to, but to think that in theory PnP'd stock manis and gutted cats are somehow better than headers, or test pipes and PnP'd manis, is not only bold, but downright madness, even in theory, it makes no logical sense.

I'm not saying it's not true, that your set up is better than headers, I'm just saying that without anything even resembling proof, or even a comparison, these statements are ludicris.

You know first hand how what a gutted cat looks like. You really think that is good for Velocity, etc? All those changes in Diameter, rough edges, etc, etc?

No bro, it isn't. Gutted cats are not better than test pipes, so I very much doubt that any set up that still uses the gutted cat housings can be better than headers.

WhoDatBuuL

iTrader: (13)

I know i was just trying to have hope aint nothing wrong with that lol

LI_Max_WOT

iTrader: (9)

I make it smoooooth. Agree to disagree. Me and you always get into it Good talk... With that ***** wonka picture you could literally write anything and I would always find it funny

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

Yeah that ish is hilarious

But mandrel bent headers aren't smooth? come on son.

I'm sure it's a big 'win' compared to stock, but comparing ot full on headers is just unfair.

Grand_hustle17

iTrader: (22)

hope when i install my headers i go from 5 sec 0-60 to 3 llamf!!!! 2 whole second in 60mph lol, imagine how much id lose in the whole 1/4??? ill be a 11 sec car

ShocknAwe

iTrader: (3)

Im def in for pics of this super set-up. In reality the video proves nothing because you can sandbag and make 1 set-up seem 10sec worse if you wanted too. Dyno numbers!! the most reliable way to test gains and hp to my knowledge

infinimax96

huh?

Grand_hustle17

iTrader: (22)

Rods03Max619

iTrader: (5)

Rods03Max619

iTrader: (5)

I had gutted pre cats on my previoss Max, as I was waiting for my headers, it was a nice little bump in power, now I got Headers cant really compare the two but both add power how much better is one from the other didnt dyno to find out...

LI_Max_WOT

iTrader: (9)

I know how fast my car is, whether you guys believe me or not... I tried to give you my proof in a controlled experiment video. Truth is, I don't care if you believe me.

How did you know about my sandbags?!?!?! Does a butt-dyno count? Controlled experiments?!?! I estimate I increased the volume of the manifolds + cat combo by around 20%.

Here is my thinking... I BUILD... a lot of people here just BOLT... the only thing I have on my car produced by someone else are Aaron's spacers.

So... everyone here can keep bolting, I'll keep building.

Here's a teaser... the mod I'm working on will create massive gains on a stock tune (even more with a/f controllers), in the 5-15hp/tq range depending on your modifications, and it will only cost $120 + core deposit. Improved throttle response, a bump in the entire powerband no matter what you're modifications are. This will not be dyno'd, it will be guaranteed or your money back. If you don't think it's worth the money just send it back and I'll refund your money. You won't be sending it back. PM if interested. First few sets available in a few days YOU WILL UNDENIABLY FEEL IT! I'm guessing I gained about 15hp and 15tq, with my setup, and that is OVER a modification I'm sure you all have already.

ShocknAwe

iTrader: (3)

It will be hard to convince people to scrap the exhaust they have for a new product without dyno numbers. Especially considering most have full exhaust from rare Cattman headers/Y to expensive SS piping, resonators and mufflers. You will most likely have to catch the new modders. Im in for more info simply to see WTH it is your doing over there lol

LI_Max_WOT

iTrader: (9)

Agreed. Let me put it this way... if you have a stock MAF housing, you will be interested. If you have a BBMAF, you will be interested. If you're using a 3.5" LRMAF, good luck with that, it is far far far too large for our engines. The math for such a large airflow meter "does not compute" ("in robot voice"), velocity drops too far with such a large displacement air flow meter.

Sidenote: I don't think the OP gives a ship about this thread anymore he'll probably go bolt on some obx pos headers, no offense

Grand_hustle17

iTrader: (22)

Offense taken... I'm butt hurt grrrrr! Lol

JonBlz

iTrader: (11)

i went from stock headers to gutted out cats and now obx headers and will not look back best mod done IMO with full bolt ons you haul *** like a ****

Grand_hustle17

iTrader: (22)

yea buddy of mines going on 3yrs on his OBX headers lol... i love them "POS"

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

No you compared stock to your ported gutted deal. That is NOT A COMPARISON TO HEADERS as you recently stated. that's the thing I'm calling out here, nothing else.

The rest is all good, That's a great price, and good on you for doing it for this community, I really mean that. My point is, DO NOT try to market this as a better option than headers. Rather, market it as a MUCH CHEAPER, and MUCH EASIER option. that will sell. Making false claims that your modded manifolds are better will only get you flamed around here, that's the whole point I'm trying to get across in this little back and forth. Dig?

This hurts the fuak out of my eyes to read. Use orange if you're gonna colour

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

If no dyno why not 1/4 mile ET's & MPH's comparisons?

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

I remembered the unsubstantiated & undocumented claims sounded familiar. The guy was 'schooled' in this thread;
http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...ml#post8290042

BTW; How'd that dual exhaust mod work out for you LI_MAX_WOT?

Apparently, from these posts you're still experimenting;
http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...ml#post8371116
http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...ml#post8440526
http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...ml#post8434993
Good Luck with that!

essential1

iTrader: (5)

^^^

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

Dayum! COmpletELY Pwnd

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

From the vid, it appears my bone stock DEK/4AT will go 0-60 just as quickly. The mod seems Unremarkable at best. Gutted cats & EBay Y-Pipe would probably yield the same results.

LI_Max_WOT

iTrader: (9)

Ohh I see how it is... you guys want to play hard ball, eh?

You guys are so cute together... Yep, you got me!

In what alternate dimension is your bone stock DEK/4AT defying the laws of physics? My 0-60 run was 5.4 seconds with a chirp of the tires and a camera in one hand and granny shifting on stock clutch. Y'all got butt hurt, admit it. I know what I'm doing. Go get your stop watches out and time it, cuz I know you already did. You'll just end up saying ohh he was on a grade or something stupid There's nothing special about going fast in an automatic. Sorry about your butts getting hurt by how much faster my car is than yours without even trying.

Hahahahahaha... are you serious?


Good talk .... you guys are at least entertaining

LI_Max_WOT

iTrader: (9)

I guess there are just too many variables that could affect the outcome, and there would never be a clear result. In a quarter mile, I will speculate that my set up vs. conventional long tube headers would be nearly identical traps, with a faster 60' time on my setup. I'm not trying to convince everybody that my "stock headers" are better, but just as a very good alternative to going full on headers. Maybe not faster, but IMO better for daily driving with a more balanced power curve. I'm pretty sure my "undocumented and unsubstatiated" video shows a pretty freakin clean power curve. I've still got 20 peak hp to be gained with larger injectors and a tune. It's pretty lean up there, and hopefully I can count on you for some sound tuning advice pretty soon.

essential1

iTrader: (5)

You can validate that claim when you beat these two times.






the 60' is largely dependant on traction and driving technique. Trap speed is mainly dependant on power output. So if youre setup nets a better 60' but identical traps, all that means is that you had a better launch, but the other car is making the same, or even more power to make up for the bad launch...

Not trying to bash you, but these people are telling you this stuff because what you're saying really doesn't make any sense. Putting a video up online of your dash is vulnerable to the most variables you can imagine. The track or a dyno is the only way to eliminate that majority of those variables. There's even corrections for std, sae, etc. for dynos. As well as corrections for atmospheric conditions at the track. When you stop trying to 1 up the people that are knowledgable about this stuff and take advice, you'll learn alot more. Nobody is saying that your gutted and smoothed manifolds dont make power. We know it does, it's been done before. Hell, i've done it plenty of times already. But it doesn't produce power or a sound like quality equal length headers.

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

You're the one sounding like a 'butthurt' jerk! I was asking how the dual exhaust thing worked out since it sounded like a good theory & I was curious. Also that from other posts it looked like you were going a different route. An ~5.5 sec 0-60 isn't defying the laws of physics and within the capabilities of any good running 5th gen. FYI; My DEK/4AT shifts into 2nd @ ~50 MPH & barks the tires with authority too! So what's your point? If you're going to SELL a performance mod idea. Post some real numbers and quantifiable information. The same way others PROVE their mods work, not some lame claims, video & excuses for NO ACTUAL DATA.

FOR EXAMPLE;
You can SPECULATE all you want, it's NOT REAL WORLD PROOF! There's NO WAY you can SUBSTANTIATE the trap speed w/o Track Timing DATA. Or the power curve & mixture characteristics w/o Dyno & A/F ratio DATA.
Otherwise anything you say is...

schmellyfart

iTrader: (46)

Please pick one and stick with it. Your initial statement is what started this whole mess.

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

This x1020203940986039846098608346

LI_Max_WOT

iTrader: (9)

I really don't have the time for all this... Honestly I was just saying that to toss you a bone so you would stop bothering me, but I guess not. I still think mine are better, and I base this on physics. This is also why my "stock headers" only require 2.5" piping for the exhaust, because it is much more efficient and creates a greater velocity than conventional long tube headers with a 3" exhaust. Walls in the exhaust create drag in the gases which lowers the velocity but due to the larger overall volume of the piping, pushes a larger mass of air at a lower velocity. This is why people normally choose a 3" exhaust to compensate for the drag (uh oh BACKPRESSURE) in the exhaust gasses. My 2.5" exhaust combined with shorty style headers which are 90% ported and polished so that air is NOT dragging on these walls (one bank on each header is too difficult to port completely with the tools at my disposal). Then, the precats are gutted and tuned to create an exhaust scavenging effect, which actually creates a vacuum, maximizing the velocity of exhaust gasses at the first "restriction" in the exhaust. This vacuum created by the gutted cats, is always increasing the velocity of gas dependent upon engine speed. The higher the engine speed is, the more imbalance of pressure is created between the exhaust gas leaving the engine and the exhaust gas already in the cat, thus always creating a vacuum effect and drawing the exhaust gas out of the engine at greater speeds. Even more power can be achieved with my setup than I have already attained, and this is with a long-tube y pipe. My "stock header" setup + long tube y-pipe will actually create a LARGER volume inside that section of piping than a long tube header system with a significantly less amount of drag incurring. Just tossing longer and larger piping on the exhaust system does not create a more efficient exhaust, just a larger mass of air at a lower velocity.

THESE are the reasons why I say that my setup is better than long tube headers. Long tube headers are great in the upper power band, granted where most of the time "racing" the car would be, but that is only racing. My setup is just as efficient as headers in ALL engine speeds, not just higher ones. The engineers that made the exhaust on the vq35de made built in headers, in my opinion, it's just how you tune them which will yield massive results. Now, this is not a complete thought. I do not have time to explain all the little details of every little thing, but you get the idea. I predict you all will not be agreeing with me, and that is fine with me. I know physics and I know it pretty well, but I do not claim to be an expert. So, agree with me or disagree, whatever. This is what I meant by doing more with less.

I'm not trying to convince people to go scrap their headers, because your car may not be "faster" per say, but it will make a more powerful daily driver. I make what some would consider "fast" cars look silly with a throttle response at any speed and gear that you would never believe. At highways speeds in 6th, my throttle response will throw you back in your seat a decent little bit. You can always tell when I'm on and off the gas. This is all without a tune, on stock injectors. Just wait for my tune and some 350z injectors. It will be epic.

Also, applying similar principles I have created the same effect on the intake side of the engine, which creates a scavenging effect, and increases intake air mass and velocity. I will have around 7 setups by Tuesday. I will take reservations, it will be $120 + core deposit as well and by far the best dollar per hp gain you will ever experience.

T_Behr904

:metalmax:

T_Behr904

And one more, and i'm done.

You kids have fun now...

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

First off I'm NOT trying to maliciously criticize what you're saying. That said, there are glaring inconsistencies & errors in your theories. And what you stated above totally contradicts your theory on a long tube Y-Pipe (which has merit <IMO>) My sincerest advice, DO MORE RESEARCH! So in an effort to provide you with some good education & theory on automotive exhaust system physics, here's something to read over. I hope this helps!

Quoted from; http://www.physicsforums.com

"This is a question of exhaust gas scavenging efficiency. Effective scavenging is an extremely important factor to consider in maximizing your engine's volumetric efficiency, or "V.E." Although the most thorough answer is one that takes far too long to put in this post, Ill give you the shortened one.
Long tube headers are headers where your primary tubes are on average, at least 28" in length, they are also much more narrow than their short tube counter parts. These type of headers, generally speaking, are best when used on a street rod, or "smoke show" application. Basically, lighting up the tires from stoplight to stoplight, generally with a mid to low power band. This is because of the way the engine breathes at mid and lower RPM's.

At the low to mid end, the best way to maximize your scavenging effect, thus helping to maximize your engine's V.E., Is to move the exhaust out of the engine as fast as possible, or with as much velocity as possible. Long tubes work best for this because of their length, and their width (well, lack of width). Their length allows an elongated path for the gas to flow, thus allowing the gas to leave the cylinder with more speed because the gas has more time to gain velocity before it hits the collector.

Now, you've heard car enthusiasts state that ANY restriction is bad for a motor, no matter what. This is not completely true, in your exhaust, small, strategically placed, smooth mandrel restrictions can be a good thing due to the fact that well place, correct sized restrictions followed by larger openings actually speed up exhaust gas flow. So the smaller diameter tubes actually serve your scavenging better in the mid and low ranges.

Mid and low ranges don't produce a lot of actual exhaust volume, so small tubes don't restrict or "back up" flow.

LARGE, SHORT TUBE HEADERS MAKE FOR "LAZY" EXHAUST GAS SPEED WHEN EXHAUST VOLUME IS LOW!! (as it is in the low and mid range).

However, if you don't even begin to tip into your power band until about 3700, you may consider short tubes. High RPM operation in a big motor (not talking about 4 bangers here), yield LARGE amounts of exhaust gas discharge. THIS is where you need the larger diameter tubes, to get more volume out of the cylinder. THIS is where you can loose power due to pumping losses on the exhaust stroke. In an ideal world, your exhaust system would be so effective, that by the time that piston STARTS coming up on the exhaust stroke, your ports and headers will have scavenged all exhaust gas out of the cylinder during the duration of the exhaust pulse. If there's no sizable amount to push out, there in a low pressure area in the cylinder (also known as vacuum), almost causing a "pulling up" affect on the piston. So, your not loosing power by pushing, your gaining power by being pulled.

The piping that connects all of the individual components of the exhaust system is called the exhaust pipe. Contrary to popular belief, the largest diameter exhaust pipe is not always better. If the pipe is too large, the scavenging effect will suffer at low rpm, resulting in loss of torque and drive-ability . Running a pipe that is too large may also decrease a car's ground clearance, increasing the risk of the exhaust being damaged when the car moves over an uneven surface

Wrapping headers with thermal tape will help but will cause rust. That's why the hi tech header guys fabricate these out of stainless steel. Huge dollars but they work.

Advantages
An increase in peak engine horsepower can be achieved. maybe up to 25 HP
Gas mileage can be increased in a well designed aftermarket system.
Aftermarket parts can be cost effective replacements for stock parts when OEM parts are not readily available (or are more expensive).
Aftermarket parts are often available in longer lasting stainless steel, whereas many OEM exhaust components are made from mild steel and have a limited lifespan.
Disadvantages
Removing or bypassing a catalytic converter may interfere with emission laws in some jurisdictions.
A noticeable increase in noxious fumes may result (particularly when the catalytic converter is removed or bypassed, and/or when exhaust outlets are rerouted to the side of the car as with side-exit exhausts).
Engine sound may be more noticeable to both driver and pedestrians, resulting in increased noise pollution.

AN INCORRECTLY DESIGNED EXHAUST CAN CAUSE LOSS OF LOW-RPM TORQUE/HIGH-RPM HORSEPOWER, AND DECREASED ENGINE EFFICIENCY/FUEL ECONOMY."

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

Well, seems Pezz took care of this one.

I did LOL at your whole "drag" theory. The issue is inconsistancies in ID cross-section, rough meeting points (3-1, 2-1), and so on. The actual interior surface friction is pretty much a pointless venture. Granted you don't want sandpaper surface, but stock isn't really rough, and aftermarket is smooth. Your ported is smooth. Stock is smooth.

The issue is the joints, cross section, etc.

More to this point, jsut because you think you're making it better, when you rough the surface up with emery tools/burr-bits you're making it seem smooth, but in actuality, it's LESS smooth, and LESS consistant in grain flow due to you altering the molecular structure of the steel.

All of this is pointless because the difference in roughness of the surface has little to no effect on the efficancy of the exhaust in this application. Period.

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

Not to mention there's plenty of research to support the fact; That a perfectly smooth surface is detrimental to flow, due to boundary layer separation and induced turbulence.
Young Tom Edison is thick as a brick, I'm done with this BS!
He can try selling his 'snake oil' to someone else, I'm smart enough to know better. Caveat Emptor!

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

Wasn't going to bother pointing out the perfectly smooth statement, but yup, that's true. If you look at plastic intakes that are of any good built, they've actually manfuactured them ROUGH before they coat them in the finished layer, for just this reason. Obviously because plastic can be made almost perfectly smooth, if it was beneficial to have it this way.

They go out of their way to make it ROUGH.