nge123

Normally I just search for the answer here, I checked using search and google, but didn't find a solution.

2003 Maxima with automatic transmission: lights up (brake, ABS, SES, door, etc.) but gauges (fuel, odometer, trip meter) do not activate and the starter does not crank. I do hear the fuel pump activate. No codes come up on ECU using OBDII.

Checked all fuses, including the 120 on the battery terminal and they are OK. Battery is fully charged.
I did wash the engine compartment this morning, and while I was careful (I was a detailer, and I have never had a problem after washing an engine compartment before), it is possible water got somewhere.

Any ideas on what to check next?

Thank you.

cjandura

iTrader: (3)

Try moving shifter back and forth thru gears a few times with key on or try to start in N

nge123

Even with the key at "ON" the transmission will not let me shift to neutral. How do I bypass this safety feature to try this suggestion?

cjandura

iTrader: (3)

your car is not getting power somewhere check all the fuses that only happens when the ecm is not getting power at all

nge123

I checked the fuses under the steering column and those under the hood next to the battery, they were all fine, any other place that I could have missed?

I have to admit I do not know how to check a relay, how can you tell if a relay is bad?

Edit: Which fuse should I be checking? I do not see a fuse labeled "ECU".

cjandura

iTrader: (3)

man recheck pull each one something is not right its not getting power

nge123

Thank you Ciandura for helping me so far. I pulled every single one again for the third time and checked them. I also had my wife and friend check them just to make sure it is not a mistake on my part. Each fuse is fine.

How do I check the ECU itself?

dfj240

iTrader: (1)

Check the circuit breaker under the dash near/behind the driver's side kick panel. It may need to be reset. Either that, or my other suggestion would be to check and/or replace the ignition relay as that is where the ECU's power is routed, among many other things that seem to be unresponsive on your car.

-Nathan

nge123

How do I find/reset the circuit breaker? All I see is the fuses and a blue relay.

Thank you very much for helping me out.

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

How are you checking fuses?

You should not need to pull them if you're checking properly. Unless you're doing a Continuity test.

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

Here, I found one video for you of how to check them properly, and way faster too!

nge123

Thank you TunerMaxima3000, that video was informative. I borrowed a buddy's tester, everything test out just fine.

I switched the relays under the hood, that didn't change anything, and checked the circuit breaker under the dash. The breaker/relay looks fine but I have no idea on how to test it. Any other ideas guys?

Where is the darn ECU anyways?

nge123

OK found the ECU, is there someway to verify that the ECU needs to be replaced?

dfj240

iTrader: (1)

First thing you can do is smell it. If it smells burnt then it probably is. If not, it's somewhat unlikely to be the ECU. The circuit breaker will have a "button" sticking out of it if it has tripped. If it's not sticking out then don't worry about it. I recommend testing the ignition relay next.

-Nathan

nge123

Thanks Nathan, I will check the breaker on the ECU in the morning.

May I ask, where is the ignition breaker?

dfj240

iTrader: (1)

There's only one breaker that I'm aware of. You said it looked fine, but you weren't sure how to test it; there's no real test for it, it just needs to be reset if necessary. It's under the dash on the driver's side, behind the kick panel near the firewall.

The Ignition relay is apparently labeled as the ECM relay, and it is in the relay box on the driver's side of the engine bay closest to the headlight. It is the relay closest to the front of the car furthest to the left (away from the fender).

-Nathan

nge123

Ok, I already swaped the ignition relay with another just to make sure that was not the case.

I shall have to recheck looking for the breaker, I guess I still didn't find it. I crawled under the driver side dash, and looked up but only found wires and relays, can you give me a bit more discription on the breaker?

Nathan you are saving me here, thank you!

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

Borrow your buddys test light again:

http://www.ehow.com/video_2328097_di...id-system.html

Your starter solonoid is mounted right on the starter. Search will provide you with it's location under the air box.

Test it just like this guy does. If that tests out fine you want to hook the clamp to the Negative side of the battery again and test the small wire that is hooked to the Solonoid.
This is your trigger wire. Have a friend try to start the car while you are probing this Trigger wire at the solonoid. If it lights up when he/she tries to start the car, you need a starter.



And stop all this "ECM", etc crap, that's not the problem. you're overcomplicating it

dfj240

iTrader: (1)

In my opinion and experience, I don't think a starter solenoid is going to cause key parts of his instrument cluster to be rendered inoperative. Hence the reason I'm trying to assist him with the ""ECM" crap". It's entirely possible that he has another issue like a fuse/relay that is causing these multiple issues that sprouted up at once, so that possibility should probably be explored, otherwise he could end up replacing a starter when he could have just replaced a fuse or relay.

That's my opinion and how I would proceed, but it's not my car and not my issue to resolve, so all I can do is try to help him troubleshoot, but the advice that I'm giving him and the directions in which I'm pointing him are by no means "crap", they are entirely plausible solutions to the complete issue he's experiencing (and inexpensive ones no less).

-Nathan

nge123

I would like to start by saying thank you to everyone for the help so far! I am on vacation at my parents house, and not having a running car and being away from home (where my tools and friendly mechanic are) is kinda scary. Add on my limited repair experience, and it is easy to see I would be completely lost without this forum. Being on vacation and not being able to go anywhere is disapointing for my family, and I am worried about getting us home.

I checked the trigger wire on the starter, and the continuity tester would not light up, even as I cranked it.

Does this mean the trigger wire is bad? And if so, is this something I can replace? Or is there somewhere further up the line I can test?

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

Sorry if that sounded rough man I wasn't directing that at you at all. I just hear people point to the ECM as a possible cause a lot and that's a ridiculous assumption. ECM's don't fail, they just don't, unless shorted out by something else.

The test I gave him was to check the starter, not replace it. The purpose was so he DOESN'T just replace parts that are perfectly fine. Hence the test.

But I agree on further exploration. The thing is, there's a LOT of things that will stop a car from starting, it's really easy to get pulled in 10 directions diagnosing and end up nowhere. That's why I'm saying you always start with a simple systematic check before you go in-depth. Fuses first, yup.

The OP, no offense to him, isn't knowledgable/experienced here and leading him astray or confusing him would be a simple thing to do, again, no offense to him, but in the interest of helping him, we need to keep it as simple as possible here.

Ok, did you do the checks for power and ground like shown in the video I linked?

If so, along with the trigger wire check, you now know 3 things:

- You have Power to the Starter
- You have Ground to the Starter
- You DO NOT have trigger power to the Starter

TRIGGER power is what 'turns the starter on'. When you turn the key to START, this wire is powered and that turns the starter which turns the engine over

This means your starter is probably NOT the problem.

nge123

Yes I tested the starter and selinoid just like the video, and it checked out fine.

Yes my car repair experience is very limited. I myself am a Mathematician and I learn relatively quickly, but my content knowledge on car repair is self-taught from forums and my car buddies. When I encounter a problem, I look online first, and move from there, or have my friend who is a mechanic back home help me out.

The trigger wire has no power coming out of it, so that means that I need to go backwards from there, right?

So how do I keep checking back upstream?

I did use the continuity tester on the 40a ignition fuse in the fender box on the driver side, it checked out fine (I took the clear plastic cap off and used the tester on all four "post").

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

Information gathered for you from here:
http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/maxima/2003/sc.pdf




Based on what you've told us, it's very clear that you simply don't have power going somewhere. This is why we keep saying check fuses, because it's somewhere between rare and very unlikely that you have no power without a blown fuse, this car is pretty well protected.

So if you're certain all fuses are good, tell us more about what DOES work in the car:

Does your stereo work? Can you crank it up and everything's fine? Headlights on? Nice and bright?

Have you tried getting a jump-start from someone?

Your fuel gauge isn't coming up to it's level when you turn the key on, is that correct? And the LCD screen doesn't light up that shows your mileage?

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

Yup you're doing great man, and yes backwards from there is a good place to start. But we need to know more about what does/doesn't have power right now.

My next step would be checking your starter relay for power supply as dfj420 suggested wisely earlier. Also you need to check your Park/neutral relay for power supply also.

You should have power SUPPLY at both of these relays with the key in the "on" position.

nge123

OK I shall do a through check and report back, give me 2-3 hours? I am going to church.

dfj240

iTrader: (1)

Tuner - Apologies for my misunderstanding. You're right. I completely agree that assuming the ECM has gone bad is far fetched at best. In the decade I've been an auto mechanic, and even the 2 years that I've owned my own auto business, I've never had an ECU just 'go bad'. There's always something else that causes it.

nge123 - Tuner's definitely got you on the right track mate. Those relays can be a real pain. Also, that PNP relay is a REALLY good bet. A lot of the ignition circuitry runs through it, and could cause those other things to fail as well as killing the starter. If I can think of anything besides what Tuner has for you, I'll chime in, but it shouldn't be long before you've got it nailed. Cheers!

-Nathan

nge123

Ok, so where is the park and neutral relays?

For testing the ignition relay, remove the relay and use the restore on the positive side of the receiver/tray, correct?

cjandura

iTrader: (3)

if you got water in the plug of part 31918 you got a problem get some contact cleaner/dryer and go at it

dfj240

iTrader: (1)

The Park/Neutral Position Switch Relay is in the same relay box as the ECM relay, but it's furthest from the front (closest to the battery), second to the left.

nge123

I went to do more testing and checking the relays but the battery was dead. I bought a charger and charged it for an hour, then went back and she started!

This means I have an alternator or a battery problem right? Is there anything else that would cause the same problems and drain the battery?

Nathan and TunerMax thank you for all of your help on this, I owe you both one!

I think that I will take it to O'riely and get the battery and alternator tested.

cjandura

iTrader: (3)

I have had my alt go after i pressure washed the engine but you could smell it and your brake light should be on

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

Given it happened after washing it's likely a bad connection somewhere, most likely a bad battery terminal.

hence my suggesting getting a boost

Very happy you got it sorted to some extent.

Time to do some wiggle tests, if that doesnt work you need to do voltage drop testing or have a reputable shop do a full charging/starting system test with a AVR Carbon pile tester.

nge123

OK guys, I got her going and took her to a mechanic my parents trust. He did an in-depth test of the battery and alternator, and he found both to be faulty.

Essentially if I understand things correctly, several of the plates in the battery were bad resulting in low charge sustainability and the alternator would not keep a charged state (it would fail after a minute or so of charging, thus not charge the battery). With the battery still outputting 12 volts and the alternator pushing 14.6 for that 30 seconds or so of test, it is easy to see how the parts store test would pass both of them.

I hope this all helps future people who experience similar problems.

Thank you everyone, this was a job well done!

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

you're best getting both done at this juncture anyways, good luck.