A tip for 2k2 (Auto's only) owners
03-19-2002, 06:14 AM
#1
A tip for 2k2 (Auto's only) owners
Disclaimer: This may not apply to your style of driving and the road conditions you're in but it's good to know for those who doesn't yet. I mentioned 2k2's only as i'm not sure if pre-2k2's have different gearing.
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With that out of the way, here's a good tip for the Automagic owners. Something which i also gathered from some of the Automagic owners here at the board.
If you think that the Max is somewhat sluggish when accelerating from a stop and at 30-40mph (e.g. city driving). Try driving around instead with your shifter set at "3" rather than "D".
Things i noticed:
1) The powerband is utilized more efficiently in 1 and 2 (e.g. ECU will shift at a slightly higher rpm)
2) Your highest gear while cruising in the city where a lot of stop/go/slow/zoom traffic takes place will be in 3rd. The significance of this is, you will be at the right gear to utilize the engine's power more efficiently. If you need to overtake someone a slight push on the accelerator will zoom you by without waiting for the transmission to drop from 4(D) -> 3.
3) Overall, the driving experience is much more enjoyable albeit at the cost of a slightly lower gas mileage.
Another thing worth noting, when on the highways cruising at 4th gear (OD) and you feel the need for speed (or rather, the need to overtake someone slower) instead of just flooring the accelerator right away do this:
1) Just when you think you should overtake, slide the shifter to the left (e.g. D -> 3)
2) A split second after, press a bit more on the accelerator.
At this point you'll notice a sudden jerk of speed. Keep it up until it's safe to return to your lane then slide the shifter back to D.
The significance of this is that instead of waiting for the ECU to downshift on your behalf when flooring it from 4th is you get a much more instant response and allows you to have a bit more control on exactly when the power should be applied to the wheels.
Hope this helps out a bit
- Mike
----------------------
With that out of the way, here's a good tip for the Automagic owners. Something which i also gathered from some of the Automagic owners here at the board.
If you think that the Max is somewhat sluggish when accelerating from a stop and at 30-40mph (e.g. city driving). Try driving around instead with your shifter set at "3" rather than "D".
Things i noticed:
1) The powerband is utilized more efficiently in 1 and 2 (e.g. ECU will shift at a slightly higher rpm)
2) Your highest gear while cruising in the city where a lot of stop/go/slow/zoom traffic takes place will be in 3rd. The significance of this is, you will be at the right gear to utilize the engine's power more efficiently. If you need to overtake someone a slight push on the accelerator will zoom you by without waiting for the transmission to drop from 4(D) -> 3.
3) Overall, the driving experience is much more enjoyable albeit at the cost of a slightly lower gas mileage.
Another thing worth noting, when on the highways cruising at 4th gear (OD) and you feel the need for speed (or rather, the need to overtake someone slower) instead of just flooring the accelerator right away do this:
1) Just when you think you should overtake, slide the shifter to the left (e.g. D -> 3)
2) A split second after, press a bit more on the accelerator.
At this point you'll notice a sudden jerk of speed. Keep it up until it's safe to return to your lane then slide the shifter back to D.
The significance of this is that instead of waiting for the ECU to downshift on your behalf when flooring it from 4th is you get a much more instant response and allows you to have a bit more control on exactly when the power should be applied to the wheels.
Hope this helps out a bit
- Mike
03-22-2002, 01:03 PM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 574
...Yup, I had figured all this out kinda' intuitively on my own as I drove around, especially on the highway when travelling 70-80mph in drive, you tap it over to 3rd, you raise from 2500 rpms to about 4000 rpms in an instant, which takes you much closer to optimum rev range for hp and for torque... (peak torque for the 3.5 occurs about 4400 rpms right?) This is a very handy (and exciting) way to drive your auto, and believe me, no one else on the freeway will think you are driving a 'slushbox'... 
10-28-2002, 05:00 PM
#5
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 8
Downshifting
Thanks for the info on how to best use the gated shifter for the automatic transmission. You don't mention it, but would there be any detrimental effect to downshifting through the gears when approaching a red light to save the brakes, as long as you don't downshift to 2 at 80?
10-28-2002, 05:09 PM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 159
Is this safe for the tranny?
Originally posted by Matthew
...Yup, I had figured all this out kinda' intuitively on my own as I drove around, especially on the highway when travelling 70-80mph in drive, you tap it over to 3rd, you raise from 2500 rpms to about 4000 rpms in an instant, which takes you much closer to optimum rev range for hp and for torque... (peak torque for the 3.5 occurs about 4400 rpms right?) This is a very handy (and exciting) way to drive your auto, and believe me, no one else on the freeway will think you are driving a 'slushbox'...
...Yup, I had figured all this out kinda' intuitively on my own as I drove around, especially on the highway when travelling 70-80mph in drive, you tap it over to 3rd, you raise from 2500 rpms to about 4000 rpms in an instant, which takes you much closer to optimum rev range for hp and for torque... (peak torque for the 3.5 occurs about 4400 rpms right?) This is a very handy (and exciting) way to drive your auto, and believe me, no one else on the freeway will think you are driving a 'slushbox'...
I asked a similar question and got an indecisive answer. Basically will driving on the hwy at 4000 - 4700 for a prolonger period of time be harmeful to the tranny. By prolonged I mean say into work 5-10 miles. I like to stay in 3rd it is much more responsive.
10-28-2002, 06:16 PM
#7
Dyno plot says I have the most area under the Administrator curve
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 7,060
This reminds me of my old Accord V6 days.
To get some highway acceleration and a downshift to 3rd gear from "D4" you would seriously have to have your foot nearly flat on the floor to get the bloody fricken downshift. But instead, you could just drop the shifter back to D3 yourself, get the downshift manually, and apply *half* the throttle while still getting better overall acceleration.
Auto sucks.
SHIFT_manually
hehehe
To get some highway acceleration and a downshift to 3rd gear from "D4" you would seriously have to have your foot nearly flat on the floor to get the bloody fricken downshift. But instead, you could just drop the shifter back to D3 yourself, get the downshift manually, and apply *half* the throttle while still getting better overall acceleration.
Auto sucks.
SHIFT_manually
hehehe
10-28-2002, 06:20 PM
#8
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: SoCal
Posts: 653
Re: Downshifting
Originally posted by kway007
Thanks for the info on how to best use the gated shifter for the automatic transmission. You don't mention it, but would there be any detrimental effect to downshifting through the gears when approaching a red light to save the brakes, as long as you don't downshift to 2 at 80?
Thanks for the info on how to best use the gated shifter for the automatic transmission. You don't mention it, but would there be any detrimental effect to downshifting through the gears when approaching a red light to save the brakes, as long as you don't downshift to 2 at 80?
10-28-2002, 06:42 PM
#9
after reading this it's no wonder ppl have problems with their tranny slipping, breaking, etc.
I just believe that manually making the engine shove the lower gear into the tranny when at high speeds with no clutch to transfer the power more smoothly is detrimental to the tranny. Now don't get me wrong, i'm not a hardcore mechanic or anything, it's just what I think.... someone can prove me wrong.
I just believe that manually making the engine shove the lower gear into the tranny when at high speeds with no clutch to transfer the power more smoothly is detrimental to the tranny. Now don't get me wrong, i'm not a hardcore mechanic or anything, it's just what I think.... someone can prove me wrong.
10-28-2002, 07:01 PM
#10
Look at it this way, when you're cruising on the highway and you need instantaneous acceleration you can do it both ways:
1) Put the pedal to the metal and wait for the TC to unlock then downshift to 3rd, Or,
2) Slide the shifter to 3.
Either way your tranny takes the hit for going into 3rd gear.
1) Put the pedal to the metal and wait for the TC to unlock then downshift to 3rd, Or,
2) Slide the shifter to 3.
Either way your tranny takes the hit for going into 3rd gear.
10-28-2002, 08:28 PM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 238
Originally posted by soundmike
Look at it this way, when you're cruising on the highway and you need instantaneous acceleration you can do it both ways:
1) Put the pedal to the metal and wait for the TC to unlock then downshift to 3rd, Or,
2) Slide the shifter to 3.
Either way your tranny takes the hit for going into 3rd gear.
Look at it this way, when you're cruising on the highway and you need instantaneous acceleration you can do it both ways:
1) Put the pedal to the metal and wait for the TC to unlock then downshift to 3rd, Or,
2) Slide the shifter to 3.
Either way your tranny takes the hit for going into 3rd gear.
10-28-2002, 08:54 PM
#12
Originally posted by chi02max
i rather just let the ECU handle the job.... instead of manually doing it.. cuz if you think about it.. we do have AUTO's which we can't control for decent performance... thats the ECU's job. when im on the highway.. and wanna pass someone.. i just leave it at D. since i got some mods, it does help.. especially 1900 rpm to 2500 rpm.. thats when it revs fastest.. so i go from 50-78 mph with a breeze.. and i still can pass him.. don't even need to abuse my transmission.
i rather just let the ECU handle the job.... instead of manually doing it.. cuz if you think about it.. we do have AUTO's which we can't control for decent performance... thats the ECU's job. when im on the highway.. and wanna pass someone.. i just leave it at D. since i got some mods, it does help.. especially 1900 rpm to 2500 rpm.. thats when it revs fastest.. so i go from 50-78 mph with a breeze.. and i still can pass him.. don't even need to abuse my transmission.
As far as letting the ECU do its job. Either way it's still doing the job. The main difference is you're helping it do stuff faster.
And contrary to belief inspite of having Automatics we do have minimal control over how it should perform and comparing both steps i mentioned prior to this post you'll notice the difference quite well.
10-28-2002, 09:03 PM
#13
Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 71
Thanks
Thanks SoundMike for the writte up... I currently drive an 02 SE automatic and have tried sliding it into third when I find myself in a situation to overtake another vehicle vs flooring it and waiting for the shift. I certainly wouldn't want to downshift with an auto tranny to a complete stop though.....
Although when driving manual I prefered to downshift and use the engine to do some of the braking, I do agree that eventually it does put an extra load on the tranny.
Although when driving manual I prefered to downshift and use the engine to do some of the braking, I do agree that eventually it does put an extra load on the tranny.
10-28-2002, 09:12 PM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 168
I used to use the (manual) tranny to help slow the car while stopping. That was until the tranny needed a rebuid at 100K at around $2000. Since then, I have come to realize that I would rather spend $100 on brakes instead.
Automatic transmissions use fliud between friction clutches (or plates). It will cause additional wear to the transmission to manually downshift from high RPM to a lower gear. Auto tranny's also cost a WHOLE lot more to rebuild, too.
Drive how you like. I will keep the aftermarket brake companies in business longer then the tranny rebuild shops.
Automatic transmissions use fliud between friction clutches (or plates). It will cause additional wear to the transmission to manually downshift from high RPM to a lower gear. Auto tranny's also cost a WHOLE lot more to rebuild, too.
Drive how you like. I will keep the aftermarket brake companies in business longer then the tranny rebuild shops.
10-28-2002, 09:20 PM
#16
Originally posted by olincoles
It will cause additional wear to the transmission to manually downshift from high RPM to a lower gear.
It will cause additional wear to the transmission to manually downshift from high RPM to a lower gear.
Basically nothing except lag. That's my point.
Even when slowing down, if done right there's hardly any difference in letting the car slow down to a stop and letting it do so while pressing on the brakes. Granted doing so will be hard to do and letting the ECU do it's stuff is much better but it's still possible to do it the right way.
10-28-2002, 09:28 PM
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 238
Originally posted by soundmike
I fully understand this concern but what difference does it make when you slide the shifter to 3 or just floor it until it downshifts to 3 on highway speeds?
Basically nothing except lag. That's my point.
Even when slowing down, if done right there's hardly any difference in letting the car slow down to a stop and letting it do so while pressing on the brakes. Granted doing so will be hard to do and letting the ECU do it's stuff is much better but it's still possible to do it the right way.
I fully understand this concern but what difference does it make when you slide the shifter to 3 or just floor it until it downshifts to 3 on highway speeds?
Basically nothing except lag. That's my point.
Even when slowing down, if done right there's hardly any difference in letting the car slow down to a stop and letting it do so while pressing on the brakes. Granted doing so will be hard to do and letting the ECU do it's stuff is much better but it's still possible to do it the right way.
10-28-2002, 09:35 PM
#18
chi,
I, OTOH have decided to stop worrying about problems that may occur and just enjoy the Maxima. I've always been a Quality over quantity man so if it means i'll need a new transmission in 36k miles i'd rather have 36k miles worth of driving pleasure than 100k miles of boring travels
I, OTOH have decided to stop worrying about problems that may occur and just enjoy the Maxima. I've always been a Quality over quantity man so if it means i'll need a new transmission in 36k miles i'd rather have 36k miles worth of driving pleasure than 100k miles of boring travels
10-29-2002, 12:08 AM
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 238
Originally posted by soundmike
chi,
I, OTOH have decided to stop worrying about problems that may occur and just enjoy the Maxima. I've always been a Quality over quantity man so if it means i'll need a new transmission in 36k miles i'd rather have 36k miles worth of driving pleasure than 100k miles of boring travels
chi,
I, OTOH have decided to stop worrying about problems that may occur and just enjoy the Maxima. I've always been a Quality over quantity man so if it means i'll need a new transmission in 36k miles i'd rather have 36k miles worth of driving pleasure than 100k miles of boring travels
10-29-2002, 02:38 AM
#20
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 28
Altima Auto owner
Check the ESM, but I think the Altima and Max share the same fluid system within their tranny's. This means there are two valves that regulate the gearing. they also DAMPEN the shifts hydraulically which will allow for down shifting with minimal stress to the tranny.
I am not positive yours is the same as mine, but my 2k2 3.5 auto altima ESM has these dampeners in it.
just read the section on the auto tranny. it is very informative.
i have been downshifting to 3 as high as 110 mph manually and down to 2 as high as 83 mph for cornering for 33000 miles with no fluid discoloration nor any obvious problems.
I am not positive yours is the same as mine, but my 2k2 3.5 auto altima ESM has these dampeners in it.
just read the section on the auto tranny. it is very informative.
i have been downshifting to 3 as high as 110 mph manually and down to 2 as high as 83 mph for cornering for 33000 miles with no fluid discoloration nor any obvious problems.
10-29-2002, 05:54 AM
#21
Member who somehow became The President of The SE-L Club
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My Father always told me that brakes are cheaper then transmissions. And for the record, dirving with your car in 3rd will not effect the 1-2 or 2-3 shift points. It just keeps the car out of 4th and the T.C. from locking. The rest is in your head. 
Think about this for a minute, by the time you take your hand, move the shifter from D into 3rd, then step on the gas, the guy next to you will have only put his foot to the floor and his car will have taken off already. You are making 3 actions for his 1. Do the math yourself, and in case anybody hasn't noticed, computers are pretty quick these days.
Think about this for a minute, by the time you take your hand, move the shifter from D into 3rd, then step on the gas, the guy next to you will have only put his foot to the floor and his car will have taken off already. You are making 3 actions for his 1. Do the math yourself, and in case anybody hasn't noticed, computers are pretty quick these days.
10-29-2002, 07:23 AM
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 574
Originally posted by njmaxseltd
Think about this for a minute, by the time you take your hand, move the shifter from D into 3rd, then step on the gas, the guy next to you will have only put his foot to the floor and his car will have taken off already. You are making 3 actions for his 1. Do the math yourself, and in case anybody hasn't noticed, computers are pretty quick these days.
Think about this for a minute, by the time you take your hand, move the shifter from D into 3rd, then step on the gas, the guy next to you will have only put his foot to the floor and his car will have taken off already. You are making 3 actions for his 1. Do the math yourself, and in case anybody hasn't noticed, computers are pretty quick these days.
10-29-2002, 07:49 AM
#23
Originally posted by njmaxseltd
My Father always told me that brakes are cheaper then transmissions. And for the record, dirving with your car in 3rd will not effect the 1-2 or 2-3 shift points. It just keeps the car out of 4th and the T.C. from locking. The rest is in your head.
My Father always told me that brakes are cheaper then transmissions. And for the record, dirving with your car in 3rd will not effect the 1-2 or 2-3 shift points. It just keeps the car out of 4th and the T.C. from locking. The rest is in your head.
As for the shift points, i've tested it time and time again - same road, same conditions, within the same hour, all video taped for later observation and i can tell you for sure that leaving it in 3 makes the engine much more responsive and 1 will shift at a higher rpm almost 100% of the time.
Matthew, you got it right.
10-29-2002, 08:18 AM
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 259
Think about this for a minute, by the time you take your hand, move the shifter from D into 3rd, then step on the gas, the guy next to you will have only put his foot to the floor and his car will have taken off already. You are making 3 actions for his 1. Do the math yourself, and in case anybody hasn't noticed, computers are pretty quick these days. [/B][/QUOTE]
I see what you are saying and agree!
Try to imagine a "split-screen" senerio in your mind simutaneouly. The left manually shifts, the right dones not. You slowly pull up behind a truck and "anticipate" on passing. The "anticipation" is done at the same point in both senerio. After the anticipation, I believe the person who just floors it will have a quicker acceleration.
But, I do also feel that if you anticipate a race, and shifting to 3, before the race, will more likely yield a quicker shift.
I see what you are saying and agree!
Try to imagine a "split-screen" senerio in your mind simutaneouly. The left manually shifts, the right dones not. You slowly pull up behind a truck and "anticipate" on passing. The "anticipation" is done at the same point in both senerio. After the anticipation, I believe the person who just floors it will have a quicker acceleration.
But, I do also feel that if you anticipate a race, and shifting to 3, before the race, will more likely yield a quicker shift.
10-29-2002, 03:02 PM
#26
Originally posted by kway007
So what's the difference between using the gated shifter to manually control 3 vs D, as compared to the 'sportstick' or 'tiptronic' type transmissions out there?
So what's the difference between using the gated shifter to manually control 3 vs D, as compared to the 'sportstick' or 'tiptronic' type transmissions out there?
But don't mistake such "tronic" transmissions with BMW's SMG or Clutchless manual transmissions on Ferrari's.
10-29-2002, 03:37 PM
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 324
While we're talking about transmissions here, I have a quick question - when I had purchased my car, My father had gone to pick it up...anywayz, While bringing it home , he had the gear in '3' the whole entire time not realizing that it was not in 'd' as they are both next to each other...would that effect my transmission in the long run or anything else..do you think it has effected my break in period?????
Thankz in advance...
Later..
* I have an AUTO*...
Thankz in advance...
Later..
* I have an AUTO*...
10-29-2002, 07:45 PM
#28
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 9
Flintstones, Meet the Flintstones
Originally posted by 2k2maxima
While we're talking about transmissions here, I have a quick question - when I had purchased my car, My father had gone to pick it up...anywayz, While bringing it home , he had the gear in '3' the whole entire time not realizing that it was not in 'd' as they are both next to each other...would that effect my transmission in the long run or anything else..do you think it has effected my break in period?????
Thankz in advance...
Later..
* I have an AUTO*...
While we're talking about transmissions here, I have a quick question - when I had purchased my car, My father had gone to pick it up...anywayz, While bringing it home , he had the gear in '3' the whole entire time not realizing that it was not in 'd' as they are both next to each other...would that effect my transmission in the long run or anything else..do you think it has effected my break in period?????
Thankz in advance...
Later..
* I have an AUTO*...
SoundMike with the sound advice. One would want to optimally use the powerbands in situations when the engine is being stressed. Afterall, it's 255 hp @ 5,800 rpm and 246 lb-ft of torque @ 4,400 rpm and a shift to 3rd would get you closer to those rpms.
I'm actually trying to get to know my 2002 SE better so that when I need to accelerate in 4th gear, I step on the pedal enough but not sufficient to warrant the ECU changing to 3rd. Because in my experience, once the transmission changes to 3rd, it changes right back to 4th after you let up on the pedal; working the tranny doubly. I too am concerned for the transmission wear, guess I'll have to sacrifice some "fun".
10-29-2002, 09:25 PM
#29
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 7
Originally posted by njmaxseltd
My Father always told me that brakes are cheaper then transmissions. And for the record, dirving with your car in 3rd will not effect the 1-2 or 2-3 shift points. It just keeps the car out of 4th and the T.C. from locking. The rest is in your head.
Think about this for a minute, by the time you take your hand, move the shifter from D into 3rd, then step on the gas, the guy next to you will have only put his foot to the floor and his car will have taken off already. You are making 3 actions for his 1. Do the math yourself, and in case anybody hasn't noticed, computers are pretty quick these days.
My Father always told me that brakes are cheaper then transmissions. And for the record, dirving with your car in 3rd will not effect the 1-2 or 2-3 shift points. It just keeps the car out of 4th and the T.C. from locking. The rest is in your head.
Think about this for a minute, by the time you take your hand, move the shifter from D into 3rd, then step on the gas, the guy next to you will have only put his foot to the floor and his car will have taken off already. You are making 3 actions for his 1. Do the math yourself, and in case anybody hasn't noticed, computers are pretty quick these days.
If you keep it in O/D, the transmission will lock-up the TC at 1,400rpms or 37mph in 4th gear. Otherwise if you turn off O/D, the transmission will lock the TC at 2,800rpms or around 48mph in 3rd gear.
Keeping O/D off during high speed acceleration runs allows power to be put down more effectively. With O/D on, the transmission will not lock the TC in 3rd gear to give a direct mechanical link for power to be transfered. With O/D off, the transmission will lock the TC in 3rd gear, a good thing.
SteVTEC, Honda's at least have a feature to hold 2nd and/or 3rd gear though...I sure wish the Maxima had that. My sisters TL and Accord can start out in 3rd and/or 2nd gear gear by easily slipping the shifter into "3" or "2" and keep it out of "D4 and "D5" You can floor out and it will not let go of the gear selected.
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