MichaelAE

iTrader: (1)

It has got to be the stock airbox config they are looking for since they won't screw with you if you've dropped a K&N panel into the airbox (also oiled cotton).

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

You are mistaken, MichaelAE. Read page 1 of the TSB.

MichaelAE

iTrader: (1)

Ohhhhhh...the TSB...and here I went back and read page one of this thread wondering what the hell you were talking about.

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

NP

BuddyWh

I have a real problem with the way this TSB is worded. If I present my car to Nissan for warranty service, this makes it sound like he could possibly deny it if I have an intake mod. But if he could deny if for the intake mod... he could also deny it for not having a "genuine Nissan airfilter" even if my intake is otherwise stock. If I have to use a "genuine Nissan airfilter", then it seems to me Nissan has to provide it free of charge under law.

I think dealers are reading it wrong... maybe the intent is to instruct the service techs to replace with only a NEW genuine Nissan filter when they service the car for this incident under warranty, as opposed to a third party or re-used filter, and that is all that Nissan will pay them (the dealer) for. It is NOT saying to deny coverage if there was not one in it at the time the incident occurred.

Finally, if Nissan should deny coverage for this then there needs to be a detailed analysis to support it. This analysis should specific to your situation such that you could use it to support a claim against the intake/after market filter manufacturer in small claims court because they sold a defective product and should honor their implied warranty of merchantibility. Otherwise, Nissan has to honor their warranty.

Not trying to argue with your approach... by all means return to stock before giving it to the dealer if possible and avoid this whole mess, no matter how annoying it is. But if it's not possible anyone in this situation should not cave in and allow a dealer to deny warranty coverage. Tell him you'll return to stock so they can put the genuine Nissan filter in and accept their advice (it's in the TSB too) but demand warranty service and don't let them beat you down.

BuddyWh

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

You're not the only one, Buddy. The TSB is worded ambiguously, and I for one believe Nissan worded it that way on purpose.

I understand what you're saying about demanding analyses and warranty repairs. But once again, you simply don't have any control over the situation. I mean, what are you going to do if your dealer refuses to honor your warranty . . . pull your AK-47 out of the trunk and hold them hostage until the repairs have been completed?

Unless the balance of power is on my side or I'm left with no other alternative, I've found it best to avoid making demands. Obviously there are alternatives to demands and threats that can be employed in the situation of a suspected MAF sensor failure. I'm simply suggesting that people avail themselves of those alternatives before resorting to more strident tactics.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I bet if you told them you were using an K&N oiled filter they would balk. It's just that they are too stupid to look inside the box, if they see the stock airbox stuff.

And I don't know if it's been mentioned but TSB does not equal RECALL NOTICES. TSB=technical service bulletins. They are designed to assist Nissan mechanics(oxymoron) fix common problems that other mechanics have experienced.

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

Only problem is, the TSB specifically points to the air filter. I doubt any service tech following the instructions outlined in the TSB will fail to inspect it. And then your initial point is well taken . . . say bye-bye to your warranty or prepare for a legal battle!

remykins

Dont know if anyone else has seen this but it came from the FAQ page on the K&N website.

15. Will the use of a K&N filter void my factory warranty?

It is against the law for a manufacturer to require the use of a specific brand of air filter unless they are providing it free of charge under the terms of the warranty. This is stated in the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act and the general principles of the Federal Trade Commission. The customer may use any brand of filter they like if the dealership is not providing filters free of charge as part of the warranty. This does not hold true for fleets or government agencies.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Well that's fine and dandy but there is a difference between being right and going to court to prove yourself right. But I hear a call from a lawyer gets the ball moving at the dealer though.

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

Yup. It also does wonders for your bank account!

remykins

For the most part people are more than willing to work with you if they hear the "L" word. They want to avoid their boss turning around and taking out the poor cust service on them. Remember sh*t rolls downhill and if someone at the dealership gives you a hard time talk to their boss. Make an appt. to see the owner of the dealership if you have to.
Its worked for me in other situations and is at least worth a try...
Thats just my .02

MichaelAE

iTrader: (1)

Everybody needs to have a lawyer friend...make it a point to follow the following rules:

1. Make a lawyer your friend or make a friend become a lawyer.
2. Make sure he/she is of the opposite sex as relationships with a lawyer gone bad is like being in hell and finding out hell is actually the place where all the people on Jerry Springer live.
3. Never sleep with the significant other of your lawyer friend...see rule number two.

Following these simple rules can lower the cost of "getting the ball rolling" significantly.

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

Yes, that tactic very well may work. But once again it requires time and effort. And the results aren't guaranteed.

I'd suggest that you employ tactics like escalating issues at the dealership and engaging an attorney sparingly. Use them as trump cards after you've exhausted your other more peaceful, less time-consuming alternatives. And never forget:

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!

[maxi-overdose]

iTrader: (3)

so let me get this right....u r saying that I shouldnt draw such conclusion b/c ppl who responded with a blown MAF usually have a aftermarket intake? So far, what we have seen is that MAF went bad after an intake is intalled. It has become a trend that blown MAF happened after intake is installed.

remykins

I think what hes saying is that it is a biased response. No one can be positive that it is happening more on on intakes with an aftermarket filter because the people on the org are more likely to have some sort of aftermarket in there whether it be panel or otherwise. Its hard to gauge without knowing how many stock vehicles it is happening to. I have had an Amsoil oiled panel filter for the last couple months with no problems. I have a Berk intake on the way so if I swap over I guess I will have to wait and see if I eventually fall victim.
A few people have also mentioned a revised MAF later in the model year. My DOM is 9/01 so I am near the beginning of the year.

BuddyWh

Don't need a lawyer... service for small claims action works wonders for this. Large companies like Nissan are in a real pickle with small claims actions. They sometimes send a lawyer... the judge asks if they were there and saw anything himself (which he didn't and hearsay's not allowed and affidavits are frowned upon and expensive to take anyway) and finds for the plaintiff immediately. The judge knows the law and doesn't want a lawyer to try and tell him about it, he only wants facts in small claims.

If they do send somebody with knowledge of the facts they have to send half the company, each with their little portion of the story, and pay them while they wait. It winds up costing three times as much as just doing the work and even then they'll wind up loosing and paying not only for the work but for your expenses and lost time in the process.

If they don't send anybody (very frequently the case) you win by default. Just don't ask for too much for incidental expenses ($5000 the limit in most states anyway) as that will get their attention and make it worth while for them to send the people with knowledge.

However... even this is a hassle and not as easy as just changing back to stock... but if you like a little fun at Nissan's expense without too much risk...

BuddyWh

MichaelAE

iTrader: (1)

Just as a comment on my experience. I had my K&N panel in my stock airbox for about nine months with no problems and have since had the Berk intake and a few months ago added the Frankencar midpipe and still have had no problems with the MAF. I am awaiting an Injen CAI and will swap to that shortly. However, I have had a non-stock intake for the last, almost 18 months and have had no MAF problems.

Max_Gator

Small claims court is an option and less expensive if you are doing it yourself. You'll pay probably $100-200 for filing fee and service costs depending on the jurisdiction.

However, you will still have to deal with delay, under the best circumstances, you won't get to trial for at least 3-4 months. And you'll have to make at least three trips to the courthouse. The time and inconvenience will be even more if any discovery is taken. Don't bet on Nissan defaulting either - won't happen.

Again, alot of it is about inconvenience - whether vindicating your rights is worth the effort for the amount of money involved.

BuddyWh

That's the whole point of this, I guess... it is far less inconvenient to just return to stock before taking it in. If I was prescient enough to break down with the parts and tools to do the work, and not 500 miles from home.

But I know, if I were dumped in this situation, that I am correct and have been wronged. And I am sure Nissan knows it too... I would prevail. Either Nissan would cave, default (they are, after all, businessmen so why throw good money after bad) or I'd win and get all my expenses plus some for the effort. Once dumped on, it's not a matter of me just taking the lumps. Not if I don't want to.

BuddyWh

dmbmaxima2k2

iTrader: (1)

Nissan=Cheap A$$holes that don't want to fix defective parts.

that's all i got out of the past page, but where can i find the TSB.

KLOOGY

iTrader: (12)

Thats ok Steve , according to a lot of " FOLKS " here , its your fault, or Place Racing, or Cobymoby .....

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

We seem to have come full circle and arrived at the same conclusion, Buddy.

y2kse

iTrader: (1)

It's on page 2 of the TSB sticky.