Driver72

iTrader: (1)

Okay, I know there's been a bit of a battle as to which is faster: the 04 Maxima or the previous 02/03 Maxima.

In other threads about racing, I plugged in the data (gear ratios) for the Maxima SE's 6 speed manual and 5 speed auto as they were on the Infiniti G35. I was informed they are in fact different gear and Final Drive Ratios.

So I went back and plugged in the correct information.
Let me say this again first.
All comparisons are done fairly, with the EXACT SAME conditions for EACH car. The tests were done with the information that Nissan provides for power figures, weight, Aerodynamics Cd, tire size, ground clearance, height, width, everything. The conditions are such that it was tested at SEA LEVEL, with Zero wind, and Zero elevation change on the road. These are tests on the "average" street and all the friction and traction they provide. Shifting times are .4 seconds for the manuals, .3 for the automatics. The hypothetical temperature is 65 degrees F, with 29.75 inches of barometric pressure.
With one 160 pound driver on board, and 30 pounds of fuel, and on and on and on.
So, granted these times do vary a bit from what you'll read in the magazines, because often they test at dragstrips, and weather conditions vary as well as driver skill. These times from the computer is for OPTIMUM conditions and the computer shifts at the average .4 seconds, but does so at the exact rpm in order to give the utmost perfect acceleration. Same goes for it's launching, clutch slip/dump, wheelspin, etc etc.

So without further hesitation here's the results:

2004 Maxima SE 6 speed MANUAL

0-30 ... 2.19
0-60 ... 5.86
0-80 ... 9.78
0-100 .. 15.21
0-120 .. 23.57

0-60 ft ... 2.40 @ 33.04 mph
0-660 ft .. 9.50 @ 78.55
1/4 mile .. 14.60 @ 96.92

**(By the way this is just fractionally slower than what the times were when I had the gearing of the G35 and 350Z's 6 speed manual in there. With those not correct gears, it did the 1/4 in 14.57 @ 97.23)

Now, the

2003 Maxima SE 6 speed MANUAL

0-30 ... 2.11
0-60 ... 5.74
0-80 ... 9.67
0-100 .. 15.08
0-120 .. 23.68

0-60 ft ... 2.35 @ 33.55 mph
0-660 ft .. 9.43 @ 78.70
1/4 mile .. 14.51 @ 97.10

*(So as you can see the 02/03 Max SE 6 speed is scientifically a wee bit faster up to about 110 mph. From there, the 04 Max's superior aerodynamnics kick in and it's able to pass the 02/03 cars by the time it hits 120 mph).

Now for the

2004 Maxima SE with 5 speed AUTOMATIC

0-30 ... 2.49
0-60 ... 6.29
0-100 .. 15.87
0-120 .. 26.03

0-60 ft... 2.50 @ 30.06
0-660 ft.. 9.70 @ 75.69
1/4 mi... 14.89 @ 96.13

*(As you can see here, the correct gearing made the 5 speed auto FASTER than what was originally listed with the G35 sedan's 5 speed auto gearbox.)


Now for ****z and giggles I decided to compare the 02/03 Maxima GLE with it's 4 speed auto with the 2004 Maxima 3.5SL and it's 4 speed auto. They are, by the way, the identical gearboxes, with identical ratios.

2004 Maxima 3.5SL with 4 speed AUTO

0-30 ... 2.58 seconds
0-60 ... 6.82
0-100 .. 17.18
0-120 .. 25.70

0-60 ft... 2.51 @ 29.18
0-660 ft.. 9.83 @ 76.97
1/4 mi... 15.05 @ 93.10


02/03 Maxima GLE with 4 speed AUTO

0-30 ... 2.62 seconds
0-60 ... 6.81
0-100 .. 17.20
0-120 .. 26.16

0-60 ft.. 2.52 @ 28.92
0-660 ft. 9.83 @ 76.88
1/4 mi... 15.01 @ 93.30

**(These two cars are dead even basically. Again, the newer Maxima's better aerodynamics comes into play above 100 mph, where it reaches 100 mph a bumper length behind the 02/03, but reaches 120 almost 1/2 second ahead.)**

And for those of you with Altima 3.5SE's both manual and auto's
With the 245 hp rating, they are slower than all the above. Granted not by too much. But my guess is, when they "retuned" the Altima to 245 hp, they really tuned it closer to the 255 hp rating of the 02/03 Maxima's.
And this is probably why, along with their lighter weight, they are putting up numbers equal to that of the 02/03 Maxima's. And with their superior aerodynamics have actually slightly faster trap speeds.

Whew...

bluemaxx

Ok, try this if you have the time. '04 Maxima, 5speed auto, final drive ratio of 4.13. Does that help or hurt in the 60' and 1/4?

Driver72

iTrader: (1)

With the exact same gear ratios but with a final drive ratio of 4.13 you get the following:

0-30 ... 2.20
0-60 ... 6.26
0-100 .. 16.02
0-120 .. 24.18

0-60 ft... 2.15 @ 29.54
1/4 mi... 14.80 @ 94.93

Changing just the final drive ratio definately gives the car a bit more scoot. But you're going to raise your rpm while driving at any speed and thus also hurt your miles per gallon.
Also, with gearing like that, the car will run right up to redline in 5th gear, but it's top speed then is only 121 mph!


You'd be better off just figuring out a way to lighten the car up. Knocking 100 pounds off the 04 Max SE 5 auto's weight and with everything else the same you get the following:

0-60 in 6.14
1/4 in 14.74 @ 97.00 mph

Then, if you want to keep the 18" wheels/tires, just find ones that are 5 lbs less each in weight. Or go to 17" wheels and you'll drop weight and lower your F.D.R. that you desire and you'll probably get close to a stock 6 speed manual.

Keep in mind though, these are computer OPTIMUM times. The chance of you getting these exact times in other conditions is slim. You probably don't live at sea level. You probably won't ever find a road that's perfectly level. On a day with zero wind, at 65 degrees, etc etc.

Also, I noticed the computer almost always shifts at or near redline for multi valve DOHC high revving engines.
But most cars with automatics shift before redline.
Like my 2002 Maxima GLE shifts around 6200-6300 rpm on a warm day like today (90 degrees) and that knocks a tenth or so off of the times when I enter shift points at 6300 rpm.

But you at least have a baseline estimate of what your car is capable of in perfect conditions.

specv

i guess these are accurate lol good job.. high 14s is good for an auto 04 max se

bluemaxx

It knocks off a tenth in the 1/4 and .35 in the 60'. That's nothing to sneer at but I'm not sure the shake is worth the squeeze.

Driver72

iTrader: (1)

bluemaxx, re-read my post above, I edited it and added a bit on the end. You posted again before I had a chance to submit the edit.

c2003k

now its time for some timeslips.... SL and SE

jbgoodmax

Question: Does the simulation take rim size and weight into consideration?

I'll take 6.3 and 14.9 , about the same as a GS400.

Good thing they choked the max up, intake and exhaust. The stock y-pipe sucks. The combined pipe after the merge is smaller than the individuals when it goes under the frame.



I believe we will see BIG gains.


Also, does anyone know if the injectors on the Z are the same as the Max? If so, I bet we could get a Z ECU flash, that plus intake and exhaust will put us very near the 300hp mark.

Driver72

iTrader: (1)

Yes, it takes rim size into account. It takes tread width, profile, height and if know rolling diameter.
As for the combined weight of each wheel, it uses a "baseline" of 45 pounds per wheel/tire. I usually add 5 pounds for 18" rims/wheels and subtract 5 pounds for 16 inchers.

The one thing I don't change is tire "stickiness" or traction/friction.
I leave it at the "baseline" for basically every tire, so it won't differentiate between the stickiness/traction/friction of a "Z" rated tire and an "H" rated tire. So again, there's room for a bit of error in each direction in that way.

Changing wheel/tire size definitely changes the acceleration of the car on the simulation, so I'm make sure I know exactly what size wheel and tires are on each car.


04 Maxima owners with the new 5 speed auto can think of it this way.
Your car now performs on par with the 5 speed auto Acura 3.2 TL-S
Which has 0-60 times of 6.2 seconds and 1/4 times of 14.7-14.9 seconds at 95.5-97.5 mph. Even though that car has even MORE weight than the new Maxima and a bit less power, it has a 4.43 final drive ratio which makes up for it. It would be a great race between these two automatic sport sedans!

SERSPECV

im might have to set this race up my bro has a 03 cl-s auto with intake, and my father has the 04 max 5spd auto stock... hmm can we smell race... my brother thinks the max is faster, but not by much.. he says who ever gets the launch will win..

MONTE 01&97 SE

iTrader: (1)

The thing is we already know some stock 02/03 autos are breaking into the 14.6-14.7 time frame stock with time slips to prove it. We just need to prove the 04 SE/SL auto are capable of getting similiar times. Time slips 04 people especially you SE people.

c2003k

I am still trying to get my coworker to take his SL to the track. I want to see an Se or SL auto in action.

SERSPECV

but what is the avg time for a 02-03 se auto max??

bluemaxx

Where are those time slips? And why won't they post them in the 1/8-1/4 moderated forum? Don't forget, you said STOCK 02/03 auto!

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

How much HP and TQ are you plugging in for the 2k2/3 btw? It's a known fact that the 2k2/3 is putting out only about 240hp but roughly 265lb/ft of TQ at the crank. (e.g. based on reverse calculations from dyno results).

Driver72

iTrader: (1)

A known fact??? Don't think so, go to the thread where there is dyno tests. There's plenty of 02/03 manual putting out 215-219 hp at the wheels.
There's even autos putting 200-205 hp to the wheels down.
Granted there are some of both that are less, but that's always the case. There's a myriad of reasons including hot weather, hot engine, humidity, bad running engine, only using regular unleaded, etc etc that could account for getting lower numbers.

Even one of the car mags dynoed the 02 Max and got 217.x at the wheels. The Altima got like 202-203.

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

Hmm... that's odd you mention that. Most of the 2k2 Auto's and Manuals i've seen dyno'd (late 2001, early 2002) barely made those numbers without some modifications - mine included. (1st 2k2 auto dyno'd, SAE corrected, Premium all the way).

MONTE 01&97 SE

iTrader: (1)

Do a search and you will find them, if your here frequently their is no way you could have missed those post if you read the 5th gen forums. Most people donot post in their the post in their generations forums and once they post it they put their time underneath their profile when they post.

bluemaxx

I have seen the posts to which you refer. I wonder why they don't post in the 1/8-1/4 forum?
This is the one and only that I could find and he doesn't claim to have cracked 14.6;
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....hreadid=181529 His profile says he's in FL, I'm guessing close to sea level and that should yield the best times, humidity not withstanding.
I'm not trying to pick a fight with you or 'call you out.'
But I guarantee you that if I claimed 14.6 in my bone stock '04, there would be demands for proof.

specv

i have seen a 03 maxima se auto run a 14.4 k&n cone filter.. he avg 14.6 and 7.. he was shifting manualy. but he told me when he didnt shift at redline he ran the 14.4.. when he shifted at redline he ran 14.6s and7s.. wierd.. but i have seen it.. i was inpressed

MONTE 01&97 SE

iTrader: (1)

Me either bro its all good, I believe the 6th Gen SE(5 spd auto, 10 more hp and 9 in the torque dept but over 200 more pounds) should be as capable as the 02/03 autos with the SL being a tad slower(same 4spd auto,10 more horses 9 torque but well over 200 more pounds) than both

Glude

iTrader: (5)

so he shifted earlier?

SERSPECV

yup thats what he said, i really dont know where the 03 max shifts at, but if its 6500 i guess he was shifting at 6100 maybe.. it was an auto.. he said when he was shifting at redline he ran slower... i dont know maybe he shifted at peak hp??? i think peak hp on a max is 5800 rpm

95emeraldgxe

whats the name of this program your using?

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

The 2k2/3's aren't as peaky as the 2k/1 - IIRC, shifting at redline is not the best way to squeeze maximum performance from the 2k2/3's.

MinMax04

What software did you use to compute these times?