doublea

iTrader: (7)

Hi Dave, first I'd be more than happy to help you as much as I can.

For the P & P of the heads, I tried to shave as much material as I can without piercing the water jacket or making it to thin. I figured out that the side wall thickness is around a 1/4 inch to 5/16 this is where the water jacket surround it. There is other area like the intake port upper part where there is like 1/2 inche of thickness and maybe more , so knowing that I tried to keep the side wall between 1/8 to 3/32 to leave some strength to the material. As for the floor I shave as much as I can, but at some point you have to stop since it make it impossible to match the LIM since you cant open the port on the LIM as much as you can on the heads. In my case the LIM lower part of the ports are smaller than the one on the heads ( I'll try to post some pics later tonight then you'll see what I mean )

I've also ported the upper intake manifold and shave a good amount of composite material and was able to matched the UIM port with the heads and LIM.

I've asked other about the UIM on the DEK but I didn't get much infos or comments other than search. I'm not sure what I will do, some are saying to remove the butterfly valve other say dont. On my VIAS the cup is broken so if I still want to use this I need to find a permanent fix for it or gut it.

The ideal situation is to design a new upper intake manifold like the Kinetix one but for the VQ30DEK.

I'm very tempted to try to go that route since I have all the 3D softwares & hardwares to design it in 3D and then send the file to a shop that can cut the parts on a CNC. I also think this UIM would have to be build in section and will require some welding. I dont want to minimize the works needed to design a new UIM because I know it cannot happend in a week but it is certainly feasible. I will need help for sure to do this. What we all want is to increase the air flow and the effectiveness of a new UIM but with the help of few gurus on the org giving me direction I can make this happend and build a prototype in 3D and see how much that would cost me to have a shop cutting it on a CNC . I can make the 3D design within a couple of day as I have a senior 3D artist working for me full time now.

I am also interested in knowing more about gutting the UIM or making the UIM to flow more. Is there any draw back doing this ? Any proven gain etc ?

Once my valve job is done I'll let everyone see it.

Talk you later.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

About that new-design upper IM - ever looked at the older Pathfinder IMs? This one is upside down, and I can't find the other photos right now, but this thing is a natural for a 3.0-Kinetix manifold - cut off the longer runners, block the holes and use the short runners, and you have something new. I bought one a while back but never modified it - just kept using the MEVI.

Just for you:

doublea

iTrader: (7)

So what your saying is we can scavenge the Pathy UIM and hook it up to a Kinetix intake manifold that is made for the VQ35 ? or did I just not understand what you mean ?

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

I think that you could scavenge a Pathy UIM by hacking off the long runners, blocking the holes, and using the modified manifold and its' large plenum and short runners (with a butterfly in each) as a super 3.0 intake manifold. I think - that's why I originally bought one. Actually it looks a lot like the 3.5 intake manifold.

THe photo show it upside down, so it's kinda hard to understand, but if you download a FSM for a '02 Pathy, I think you can see it clearly.

If you're interested, I can upload the other photos once I get home. Heck, the manifold is still in my garage - I can take fresh pix....

Confusing, I know, but since this thread brought up the subject....

Then you could use the 90mm TB in the pix for better breathing, as well.

DrunkieTheBear

iTrader: (17)

Thats pretty ingenious and gets better because the TB is the size it is and cable driven, hmmmmm....my question is wouldn't you need a tube to run out from behind, like a 3.5 setup because otherwise the intake will end up in the firewall. Also would we have to tap the existing A33 LIM or will it bolt right in? And what about gasket I take just making a custom gasket would be best? And lastly how open are the runners if its like an A32 IM then it may hinder. I guess what I am saying is...I need more pics LOL

Use short runners for intake will be such a huge gain, the less distance the air has to run the more you can push, its hard to explain but the gains with doing this could be really significant, I did something like this with my 87 t-bird v6 converting the intake setup to a 92-93 t-bird intake setup, much like the 00VI swap.

DrunkieTheBear

iTrader: (17)

doublea any decision on cams, I know you said you may ditch the stocker 35 cams and get the knockers. I'm pushing foward with the stocker 35 cams cuase from what i have read the less overlap the better for boost, or am I completely wrong about this?

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

The manifold is from a Pathfinder - so a Pathy TB bolts right up. It would face directly toward the rear if you did that. It does bolt onto a VQ30 LIM - there's a photo of both together, and I did mount it on a 3.0 for a fitment.

I have some fresh photos that show the manifold from various angles, and taken apart like a clam. You can see that all of the long runners should be chopped off and filled in. There is aluminum rod that will work for that - a propane torch will flow the rod. The short runners have individual butterflies on a common shaft. If you could use those butterflies, you don't need a TB - just a MAF.



http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...8/DSCN0113.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...8/DSCN0112.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...8/DSCN0111.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...8/DSCN0110.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...8/DSCN0109.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...8/DSCN0108.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...8/DSCN0107.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...8/DSCN0106.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...8/DSCN0105.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...8/DSCN0104.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...8/DSCN0103.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...8/DSCN0102.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...8/DSCN0101.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...8/DSCN0100.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...8/DSCN0099.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...8/DSCN0098.jpg


Something to think about....

MOHFpro90

iTrader: (11)

Ok, so just for clarification, this is what we are proposing with the Pathfinder IM? Red line is current air flow, blue lines are where we would fill?

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Exactly right..... When you pick up this manifold and look at it, you can see that getting rid of all the long runners could make a great intake manifold for performance...

It was designed for low-end torque and also upper-end power. It is a nice piece of work - for a Pathfinder.

DrunkieTheBear

iTrader: (17)

and you have now convinced me to do this, I paired a TB and IM for about 225, www.car-parts.com FTW.

MOHFpro90

iTrader: (11)

Thanks for the confirmation and pics.

Will this clear the coils and valve cover? being at the angle they are...


Valves come out just the way the A33 LIM do, I would assume.

DrunkieTheBear

iTrader: (17)

kyle at the angle the IM looks like it enters and for how short it is, I do believe it only reach to the edge of the valve cover. So all should be good. I'll have a welder then for this part of the project.

doublea do you have anything planned for the MAF, seeing as your going FI? With this 90mm TB I am gonna run a tube at 90mm directly out and incorporate the MAF into the piping.

doublea

iTrader: (7)

I'm staying with the VQ35 cam since I'll be boost and I already have Stepehen's max cam adaptors.

doublea

iTrader: (7)

I have a stock TB that was bored out to the maximum, it was done by Jorge a guy in Florida that does great job on TB. He charged me something like 150$ if I'm not mistaking.

I'll take some pics over the week-end.

doublea

iTrader: (7)

This is an aspect that I haven't figure out yet, will the 350Z MAF can be use or what do you suggest ?

doublea

iTrader: (7)

The TB sound like a reasonable project to do, so basically I would just need to cut the long runner and weld the whole. Also I see the side wall of the Pathy UIM is quite thick
which mean we can shave alot of material and have a larger opening flowing more air. Gee, you guys are pretty smart. Ok now what year is this Pathy UIM ? I'm going to try to find one saturday at the local junk yard, if I can get one, I'll be able to cut the runner the same day, also I know a guy that is great welder, I'm sure he'll be happy to weld this for me. Ok now about this pics how do you cover this part ?

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...8/DSCN0110.jpg

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

1. My Pathy manifold is from a 2001.

2. The manifold is in two parts, like a clam. That space is covered when the manifold is assembled.

I have a couple of Q45 TBs - that's what's in the original photo. It's got a 90mm bore and has the cable attachment.

doublea

iTrader: (7)

Thanks for the precision. Tonight I'm going to take some measurement to see how big is my bored throttle body compare to the Q45.

In any eventuality does the Q45 TB is pretty much plug and play or is it more like plug and pray ? Lol

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

The Q45 TB is a conventional TB - just has a bigger hole through it and can take only one cable. Unless you are boosting a bunch, I doubt that you need it, and it might be difficult to mount on the Pathy manifold. A 70mm Pathy TB should do the job for you. I suggest you ask experts about your TB, though.

If your bored-out TB was 60mm originally, then the bored-out version is probably 64-65mm. The Pathy TB is 70mm and is easy to use - but an adapter plate is required. You have choices.

doublea

iTrader: (7)

Ok I understand now. I'm going to check my TB and see what's the exact size. I'll also check at the junkyard if I can get Pathy TB & UIM, this is the kind of stuff I'm willing to try.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

I mis-spoke about the Pathy TB - it does not need an adapter to fit onto the Pathy manifold - it bolts up quite nicely. On other manifolds, an adapter is usually required.

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

WTF, dyno testing should first be done with that manifold as a functioning VI......... An oval port runner 3.5 mani.......... interesting, very interesting......... Got pics of the upper and lower gaskets vs 3.0 held up against it?

There's also another VI manifold that no-one has tried yet, the JDMVI (VQ30DE-T, every see one with no engine cover?). They are a VI yet very similiar in appearance and design to the Z33 IM's, Hood clearance wouldn't work out, but it has....... DUAL TB's!! I've been trying to get my hands on one for awhile now, but don't want to shell out $900 just for an untried VI.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Is she a true dual runner?


Speaking of pics .............

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Nope, but I had it on a VQ30DE LIM - and it matches up. The long runners keep the manifold from sitting down all the way on a VQ30DE, but the gasket is a match.

MOHFpro90

iTrader: (11)

You could probably fly to japan and get one out of a junkyard for cheaper...waiting for more info though.

Im willing to try the PF IM as a VI...just gotta find one first...

DrunkieTheBear

iTrader: (17)

no reason to need dyno testing for this, it will be a drastic increase for us 3.0 guys especially in the torque area.

so grey what your saying is that the 90mm TB won't work or it would? Also if i were to make a full intake at 90mm all the way and incorporate the MAF into the tubing how bad would it throw off my MAF? (since a larger tube will mean less velocity and technically would not give the maf an accurate reading)

Also what I have noticed with this IM it would be a great advantage for us over our stock IM, I never really thought about it but where the TB is located on the one end, so what kind of airflow does cylinder 5 and 6 get with our stock IM? This IM will distribute the air even more evenly I think.

Just my thoughts.

Only thing is if going supercharged doublea a 90mm TB would be useless for you, the charge pipe tubing is actually 3" (76.2mm) so a 90 may not be useful for you (or me when I go SC (june 2009)) So maybe get the stock pather TB and have it bored out (get it close to 76, you'll probably end up at about 75mm).

And last thougt, I've already thought up of a way to seal the IM once you cut the runners off by welding a plate on the inside (a smoother flow with no pockets) and weld another plate on the outside, I'm also thinking about welding another plate connecting the lower and upper runner holes just to clean up the look of it (yes I have good welding skills)

DrunkieTheBear

iTrader: (17)

and let the long tube runners hang over your radiator and soak in all that heat???

oh and kyle...www.car-parts.com paired everything together for about 200

doublea

iTrader: (7)

I've measured my bored TB and it is almost at 69mm (68.89) I dont think it could have been bored bigger.

I'm going to check tomorrow if I can find the 2k1 Pathy UIM locally.

DrunkieTheBear

iTrader: (17)

yea my TB is bored to 69. something but i just round LOL

MOHFpro90

iTrader: (11)

We will try yours when you get it before you hack it up...haha.

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

Must..... resist......tempatation......... to blab....... about......... current........ vi....... project................

Everybody should just sit tight for a week or two............

DrunkieTheBear

iTrader: (17)

Can you tell me in PMs

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Screw that, in 14 days, we'll know the news, minus the PM's, make it public.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Woah - I can't answer the 90mm question - but since the opening into the plenum is 70mm, it's a natural for a Pathy TB, a section of 90-degree 3" tubing and a stock MAF to test the concept. I think this should be the starting point - except for the surgery on the long runners, this should be easy to achieve.

The real work is cutting off the long runners and filling in the holes so there is a smooth airflow. You can't mount the manifold with the long runners intact. This will require someone with serious welding skills.

MOHFpro90

iTrader: (11)

Cutting it is easy...welding, well lets just say Ive never done it before...so I wont do it here. Haha.

KRRZ350, blab.

doublea

iTrader: (7)

Aluminum is not easy to weld specially for the non experienced welder, because once the alu get too hot it start to melt like wax. I wouldn't suggest any non experienced welder to even try it, I mean pay a pro to do the job it will worth every $$$ spend. I've been welding for a good 30 years with acety/oxy torch, arc welding and more recently with a mig welder and I wouldn't even try do it.

DrunkieTheBear

iTrader: (17)

I haven't been welding that long but I have welded aluminum before so I know what your talking about. Well it will be probably be between may to july before I even start to attempt this (gotta take car of some other things first).

I'm gonna stick with the pather TB and have it bored

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

You're quite right about welding aluminum - however there is an aluminum "brazing rod" that works quite well, using a propane torch. I've used this on minor jobs, and it works. Harbor Freight has even stocked in in their Welding section !!

Here's a link: http://www.aluminumrepair.com/

doublea

iTrader: (7)

Good find, I'm keeping the link.