ur my N/A hero!
Now I just need a boost hero and my league of car heroes will be complete!

 

MARDIGRASMAX

 

mardi hasn't been active in years though. I know back in 2007 before I left he was already selling his car and moving on...

 

just out of curiosity.. what do you plan on using for tuning this thing once you have the motor back in??

 

Nuttin' ..... what's tuning?


Seriously, This will be another 3.5L engine using the 3.0 timing gears, sensors, and ECU. I'm happy with the usual 4th-gen ignition timing, since this is NOT a N/A motor, but nitrous, and I can tweak the A/F (read with a PLX-300) with tape across the MAF sensor. Right now it's set to 12:1 when spraying. I also have a couple of OBD-II monitoring programs on a laptop, just to check things, you know.

 

Oh, no, not me. Jime is MY hero - he's the Godfather of Maxima drag racing, both N/A and with nitrous.

 

^^ you have every potential to compete with jime if you tuned.. thats so disappointing to hear that youre still going to use the 'tape' method.. IMO why even spend the time and money to do all this if youre not going to push it to the full capabilities..

 

Who said I'm not taking it further? But - you gotta start with a good baseline before going further. I'm not competing with anyone - I'm going to push a completely stock Maxima body to the maximum - nothing has been removed from my car. Well, I upgraded the radio to a Clarion...

Don't underestimate the "tape" - my A/F is a straight line to fuel-cut now - how would you make that better? And ignition timing is working just fine - you can't advance it any more. How would you make that better? For instance, the fuel delivery system is now good to 600WHP - and with dual Walbros, 1000WHP.

I tune with the fuel, engine breathing, tires and transmission. Seems to work pretty well so far.

 

dont tell me youre not competing.. everytime you go to the track/dyno or get in it.. your competing against yourself.. seeing how much adrenaline you can pump out of getting in that gas pedal.. you do it cause its fun and you enjoy the rush..

you are adding all the mods to your motor.. bigger cams, ported heads, slightly bigger valves... worried about cfm, and even bigger fuel pumps.. all this tells me is your increasing your volumetric efficiency.. which is great... hats off, youre doing something no one has spent the time and money to do on here.. being a pioneer.. just like jime.. but then you go and put a piece of tape over your MAF.. right from the mouth youre restricting your motor.. with that tape your restricting an easy 15% hp.. one from decrease in flow rate of air.. and two because of a turbulent flow reading on the top end.. i mean hell you might as well take the headers off too.. and put the stock precats back in.. all im saying is youve spent all this time, money, and effort and you complete the package with the 'tape' mod.. to each his own.. ive always lived by that motto.. but lets face it youre not just the average modder.. once you strap all those cosworth goodies on that car.. im not underestimating the tape mod by any means.. but you cant argue the fact that youve ever witnessed the pure feeling of a tuned motor with all the goodies.. we dont live in a linear world my friend, or we'd all have the same thing.. give it a try man.. tune that beast.. consider it a challenge.. to prove me wrong if you want lol

 

So $7000 for heads and that's a good deal. Lol must be good to have money. $7000 can build me a built long block but id doubt it'd be this good. Good luck I'll be waiting to see the dyno numbers. I'm hoping you get over 300whp n/a.

 

$7k can get you a 5.5 gen...

 

Or my entire car that already runs mid 11's in the 1/4 mile. I hope he runs fast though. There aren't too many maxima pioneers left. Its hard to do things different and do them first. What he is doing is definitely not worth the money, but things never are in the car world.

 

I'm guessing you have never owned a pair of fuzzy dice...

 

My, you seem - agitated..... "but then you go and put a piece of tape over your MAF." obviously you don't know what I'm talking about. Go away.

.

 

Yeah - if I just wanted to go fast, I would order a 572 Chevy crate engine and bolt it into a early-70s Nova, and run in the 9s. I quit racing in the early 70s (nitromethane 850cc Triumph drag bike and wheelstanding '63 Ford van) and just decided to start something up with the Maxima - it became my car after my mother died about 5 years ago. The 4th gen is a pretty lame excuse for a fast street car, so I figured it would be a challenge...

And for what it's worth, there is about $13K in that motor. So far... You really need to read the entire thread - just so you guys don't miss any more details.

(96sleeper - I know you understand what's involved)

 

Back to the valve lifters - my machine shop did not get the lifters re-sized today - although the manager said he has the setup figured out. He might complete them tonight, and maybe I can pick them up on Saturday. They need to be reduced by .002" to .006" to get back into Cosworth's specs for valve clearance.

 

agitated? why are you getting defensive? i complimented your build, giving you full respect for your endeavor.. i think you misread my point.. obviously you dont take confrontation well.. "Go away".. but seriously dont doubt my knowledge on the subject.. i never doubted yours

 

Dont be offended, thats his way of saying "I do as i please" lol He has his ways of doing things, sometimes they dont coincide with how others do things, I am sure he knows what his doing and how to go about protecting the thousands he is investing.

Harold, looking forward to see this machine on the streets/track soon! I am already 2200 miles into my built motor and its awesome.

 

Hi, streetz - you keep getting faster, I see. I'm glad to see your built motor is putting out for you. You turbo guys are amazing - that's too much work for me! Although I admit that I gave some thought to doing a turbo build, after watching all you guys from Florida building them. Of course, just changing pistons would let the new motor work well with a turbo.... ... wouldn't that be fun?

My project is still on hold, since the machinist did not get the lifters re-sized for me today. Now it's gonna be another week or two before I get it assembled - after I get the lifters back. Once it's in and running, it's time to do some circuit design and push it to 8000 on the stock ECU.

 

I found the Cosworth chart for the CNC heads. I put a vertical line for the 10.65mm ZK2 cam lift up the graph. That's about .43" lift I believe...

 

Well knowing not one flow bench is configured the same as another, the % of increase from my heads with the port work and stock valves is around 13-14% increase in flow. Just calculating the CFM percentage of increase. Looks like Cosworth is claiming around a 17-18% increase in flow based on the CFM numbers.

 

Yeah, flow benches are like dynos - each one is unique. The important thing is how much more flow you get before and after porting. Your porting job sounds like it has good numbers - and that's with stock valves. The Cosworth numbers claim 21.8% increase on exhaust and 18.8% increase on intake CFMs.

The Cosworth heads have +2mm larger intake ports but the exhaust ports are OEM size. I guess that's good, so I don't have to re-work the header ports - and the primary tubes are 1 5/8" already. I've already ported another LIM to match the heads.

.

 

Another thing was my CFM numbers I posted were from the heads before getting the M2 serdi valve job, so combining that with the port work I'd say we're going to be in around the same ball park in terms of % of increase in headflow. I got a 3angle cut on the intake and exhaust side. I'd love to flow the heads again with the valve job completed but don't have time, my cars getting resassembled soon.

 

Yah, that sounds good. Betcha they work well. Do you have a spec for combustion chamber volume? See below.

Cosworth has a page for their head specs here:
http://www.cosworthusa.com/store/pc/...7&idproduct=68

Some details:
# CNC Ported/Machine finished port
# Intake 19% (max) increased flow
# Exhaust 22% (max) increased flow
# 4-angle Inlet Valve job
# 3-angle & radius Exhaust Valve job
# Back-Cut Inlet Valves
# Heads are Ultra Sonic cleaned prior to assembly
# Heads are Serialized and sport a machined Cosworth logo
# +1mm Stainless Steel Intake Valves (1800 degrees max.)
# +1mm Inconel Exhaust Valves (2400 degrees max.)
# Performance Valve Springs
# Titanium Retainers
# Hardened Steel Spring Platforms
# Knife edged port divider
# Combustion chamber volume 58.5cc (OE approx 56 cc)

 

He set the combustion chamber volume for stock which is what cosworth should have used as well.

 

That's why I installed 11:1 CP pistons to use with nitrous - the effective CR drops a bit with the larger volume.

 

Yea the car is feeling great right now. Hey turbo's are nice man, but it does take ALOT of head ache's to get it running how you want it, specially if its something no one is had before. Good that ur making some progress.

For 8k rpm, that is going to be amazing (no matter how you go about doing it), I know you dont like the idea of having a tuning device and all, but do consider the EU, i know i know, you dont want one, but just make sure u know exactly what it consist of, because it is extremely beneficial to your setup.

I used to be kinda of anti-EU, because my emanage blue was more than enough for my needs, but ever since i went with EU, its just another world man. I can set ignition cut at any rpm (instead of fuel cut), you can raise the limiter to w/e you want, you can fine tune your a/f without having to be chaning up jet's, or not using the tape method. and ALL this in one simple device, oh and you can also log your a/f with ur wideband. you basically log everything at the same time, water temp, intake temp, rpm, timing, the corrections you have made, anything. Just think about it. And you even have about two or more outputs, such as 12v, or a relay, or a solenoid, so you can control anything you'd like with it.

 

Don't tell anyone, but I plan on going with another engine management system of some sort. A built engine and a 10,500 RPM valve train screams out for testing. UTEC would be my first choice, but that means changing the flywheel to a 3.5 - then the '99 ECU won't work anymore. That would lead to a bunch more work that I do not have time to do. The EU is very impressive - but since it's a piggyback, ignition advance is still dependent on the ECU timing, right? That bothers me, if true. The EU would let me extend to 8K with just the injectors hooked up, right? AEM and HKS have great engine management boxes but they require the 350Z sensors, which I want to avoid right now. I'm really leaning toward the Kinetix intake manifold for nitrous - that seems to work well with that manifold - I already know the fix for the cracking they develop.

I'm still waiting on valve lifters - I think the machine shop went on holiday.

 

Yes thats correct the EU depends on the ECU's timing, but why does that bother you? you can set your timing to w/e you want, you just add or subtract from what the ECU is giving, and the ecu always has the same exact timing curve (for example about a max of 24-25 degree's. All you do is log your timing, then you determine what timing you want and add. the EU gives you the final timing degree's the engine is actually using (after your corrections), so your not adjusting it blindly. And yes thats correct, you just need to hook up the injectors to be able to extend the limiter.

 

The trouble with using the '99 ECU ignition timing is that it can change - I've logged it with an Australian OBDII program, from BlaTz or something like that. Don't know why, but it happens. Of course it almost always goes retarded a few degrees, so it wouldn't be fatal, but....... Yeah, if the ECU would always use the 4th gen WOT ignition curve, then no problem.

So you think that I can make whatever connections that are needed for basic operations and just run the injectors through the EU to control them? If possible, that would be where I start.

 

Excellent stuff...can I have some more ???

 

So any updates on the build?

 

Just read the entire thread. Great job. Definately in for the updates!

 

Thanks - work and family has kept me away from finishing this motor - I just need to hang the timing chains (again !) and button it up, put in on the stand, fill with oil, and crank it over for a while to verify oil pressure, then installation.

 

Good luck ... I really hope this works out for you (I know you are too!), because it would be one hell of an engine.

Kudos to being a pioneer.

 

All hail Jime!

 

Took the time to catch up Harold, this thing is going to be impressive. You prolly said it and I missed it... youre running 11.0 CR pistons, and stock timing correct?

Also, Just throwing this out there... I know there are some disadvantages to it, but if you want to pioneer (I may follow your footsteps ), the megasquirt is independent of the ECU when it comes to timing, etc. One of the reasons I am considering it... you want 19* of timing, you type in 19*. No +/- crap.

By the way, you wouldnt happen to be running the laptop voltage increaser with the plugs would you? I still plan on running one when I get my engine done!

 

Hi .... yup, 11.0 CP pistons - although the Cosworth heads have a couple of extra ccs in the chamber, so actual CR will be about 10.6:1. Yes, stock ECU and timing.... "megasquirt" , eh? I'll look into this. Stupid timing moves around too much for my tastes. The 'squirt connects to the 3.0 sensors, right?

Thing is, the Cosworth heads/cams are rated to 10,500 RPM, so with the heavily-built bottom end, I can def stretch beyond the OEM fuel cut. Question is, how? Greddy EU? Plus, using nitrous, I'm not sure how high is too high for nitrous. Unknown territory for me... I was thinking about a 8K limit, with a third nitrous stage starting around 6K for that extra oomph at the top end.

I created the "voltage boosta" a while back, and I'm still using it - no problems. Still have a .035 gap with a total 175-shot and no misfires - at 15 volts. For $50 or so, you can't go wrong - check w/streetz.. and others use it, too.

I think next week I can get back to the build....

.

 

Yeah, from what I know it checks up nicely with all the 3.0 stuff. I talked with Eddy (95blkmax) a while back in some detail about it. Shoot me a pm and I can send you a copy of our convo. IIRC, the MS basically just acts as a standalone, with no "dependency" on the ECU per se, like the EB/EU does.

I talked a while back via pm with you about the voltage booster, still got the link you sent me to the adapter you're usin. Any power to be had on a lightly modded car? Might go ahead and run this, rather than waiting until I get my 3.0 build done (like, uh, 2 years away... ).

 

I'll PM you - the "squirt" sounds interesting. The voltage booster is there to prevent any missing spark events, so a lightly modded engine probably wouldn't need it. I remember that Eddy used one for quite a while, and I think he claimed that it helped him - you'd have to ask him. It's nice to be able to dial up your coil spark voltage, though.