Anyone Figure out what's the best 8" Bose Sub Replacement
12-17-2008, 10:14 AM
#41
I tend to get a bit irritable
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From: http://www.termpro.com/articles/subwoof.html
"Unfortunately, there are several disadvantages to the infinite baffle. When a speaker is mounted in an enclosure, the air inside the enclosure acts like a spring against the speaker cone, and he resulting buildup in pressure provides mechanical damping and prevents excessive cone movement. But an infinite-baffle installation does not use an enclosure, so the mechanical damping is poor, resulting in "hang-over" and lack of definition. The power handling of the speaker will also be compromised since the infinite baffle provides very little control over cone excursion."
is term pro not a good source for information?
also i googled and just found this:
From:http://www.mobileinformationlabs.com...e-baffel_1.htm
"Disadvantages of this design are difficulty (sometimes extreme) in completely isolating the two sides of the cone from each other, and slightly less accurate sound reproduction."
granted they could be wrong but is there a finite answer on this subject?
"Unfortunately, there are several disadvantages to the infinite baffle. When a speaker is mounted in an enclosure, the air inside the enclosure acts like a spring against the speaker cone, and he resulting buildup in pressure provides mechanical damping and prevents excessive cone movement. But an infinite-baffle installation does not use an enclosure, so the mechanical damping is poor, resulting in "hang-over" and lack of definition. The power handling of the speaker will also be compromised since the infinite baffle provides very little control over cone excursion."
is term pro not a good source for information?
also i googled and just found this:
From:http://www.mobileinformationlabs.com...e-baffel_1.htm
"Disadvantages of this design are difficulty (sometimes extreme) in completely isolating the two sides of the cone from each other, and slightly less accurate sound reproduction."
granted they could be wrong but is there a finite answer on this subject?
When using a properly set IB configuration your not fighting the issues of a box. There is far less potential (if any) of cancellation. Bottom end will typically be more robust, pronounced and easily obtainable.
Now of course if your trying to feel lower than the typical 20 you will need higher excursion and/or larger diameter drivers and in some cases multiples of them. However this is car audio and most would be Very hard pressed to even notice anything below the 20 range.
12-17-2008, 12:34 PM
#42
I would love to know how power handling is 'compromised'. So you do not need full 'rated power' to reach full potential and/or xmax. This is a bad thing ? How?
When using a properly set IB configuration your not fighting the issues of a box. There is far less potential (if any) of cancellation. Bottom end will typically be more robust, pronounced and easily obtainable.
Now of course if your trying to feel lower than the typical 20 you will need higher excursion and/or larger diameter drivers and in some cases multiples of them. However this is car audio and most would be Very hard pressed to even notice anything below the 20 range.
When using a properly set IB configuration your not fighting the issues of a box. There is far less potential (if any) of cancellation. Bottom end will typically be more robust, pronounced and easily obtainable.
Now of course if your trying to feel lower than the typical 20 you will need higher excursion and/or larger diameter drivers and in some cases multiples of them. However this is car audio and most would be Very hard pressed to even notice anything below the 20 range.
anywho,
my point was that everything i'v read says there is less accurate sound reproduction when you use an IB. is it true or not true? because everything i'v read and looked at says that.
Also everywhere i'v read says there is a great difficulty (sometimes extreme) in completely isolating the two sides of the cone from each other. compared to a sealed box you throw in your trunk 5x more work. The number of 'holes' you need to block off are numerous on just about every car out there. you can't just throw a speaker or two into your rear deck unboxed and say it's a 'good' IB setup. Generally it's easier just to put a box in the trunk, or build small boxes and attach them to the rear 'shelf' vs sealing up 20 air passages with sound deadener and nasty expanding foam which gets everywhere...The goal of an IB is so the Qtc is equal to Qts and the Fc is equal to the Fs of the driver right? which means it better be damn good sealed and have about 20 cubes of trunk space behind it...right?
again i'm not an expert on this stuff i'v just been doing a little reading...
edit: also once you put anything in your trunk it offsets the whole equations too right? 2 golf clubs bags would take up 1/2 your trunks space...suddenly you IB isn't so infinite anymore...again i could be wrong just thinking out loud...
Last edited by Torgus; 12-18-2008 at 08:51 AM.
12-17-2008, 12:57 PM
#43
I've heard the same thing Torgus, but where they say slightly. That seems to imply that the imperfections are marginal and for a non-audio buff or just an everyday driver who wants a little extra knock its usaully un-noticable. But I think it may also have a lot to do with the quality of the sub and the setup
12-17-2008, 03:17 PM
#44
A driver, specifically designed to operate in an IB environment will not suffer from the issues you described when installed correctly, ie seperating the front and back of the drivers cone. This does require the use of either foam and/or deadener to achieve this goal. If I wasn't so output oriented, I would go this route. I prefer the sound of a well done IB setup over that of its boxed counterpart. But the cone are I would need to provide adequate output is impractical.
12-18-2008, 08:49 AM
#45
A driver, specifically designed to operate in an IB environment will not suffer from the issues you described when installed correctly, ie seperating the front and back of the drivers cone. This does require the use of either foam and/or deadener to achieve this goal. If I wasn't so output oriented, I would go this route. I prefer the sound of a well done IB setup over that of its boxed counterpart. But the cone are I would need to provide adequate output is impractical.
Also, using such small cones as 8s and 10s you now have to deal with radiating resistance(due to the problems associated with trying to move large volumes of air with small cones) as well. 12s and above are much better suited for IB setups for this reason. and i understand that since you and most are output orientated that's why you're not going with an IB(also it's a huge ***** to correctly seal off the cones from one another)
Also, just to go on about how large you need your trunk to be for a 'correct and optimal' IB setup you need the truck's 'space' to be no smaller then the Vas of each individual driver multiplied by 10. The Adire Shiva White paper talks about an IB sub being 5 times Vas, and says that's where Qts = Qtc. If you run the numbers to calculate the closest reasonable box volume where Qts = Qtc, you need to increase the box size to 25 times Vas. With a box volume 25 times the Vas, then the Qts and Fs will be raised only by a factor of 1.02. One can then say at this point Qts = Qtc. Now a volume of 25 times Vas is impractical for most people's installations, home or car related, as a compromise most use 10 times Vas as their baseline...some people even go as low as 4x but again that's just for one driver when you add more then one...
Last edited by Torgus; 12-18-2008 at 09:20 AM.
12-18-2008, 09:15 AM
#47
yes.
why?
understanding the theory behind IB has nothing to do with actually using a woofer set up for IB. I know how a ported box works as well. do i need to have used a ported box before i build/design my own one? no. have i? yes. I never claimed to be an expert on IBs i'm just explaining some facts and trying to learn more about them and so far no one is saying i'm wrong so...
what is your point of asking me if i'v ever run an IB setup before? strawmaning me?
why?
understanding the theory behind IB has nothing to do with actually using a woofer set up for IB. I know how a ported box works as well. do i need to have used a ported box before i build/design my own one? no. have i? yes. I never claimed to be an expert on IBs i'm just explaining some facts and trying to learn more about them and so far no one is saying i'm wrong so...
what is your point of asking me if i'v ever run an IB setup before? strawmaning me?
Last edited by Torgus; 12-18-2008 at 09:17 AM.
12-18-2008, 09:30 AM
#49
sorry i just assumed you were trying to say i have no right to talk about IB if i'v never used them
I used 2 crap sony's 8'' explodes for a few months in my 92 before i went with 2 12 JLs sealed. looking back i should have just made a quick sealed box for them vs going IB for the amount of work i put in to make the install 'decent'. did try and seal up the most i could with expanding foam and some scraps of sound deadener i had lying around. i'm trying hard not to compare my setup of IB to others as those woofers are junk imo. also the only other IB setup i heard the install was hacked and it sounded poor imo. I'd love to hear a good setup like your for instance. My bass from the explodes 'ok' but i far prefer the output and quality of my sealed setup. which may be impart because of the better, larger, woofers.
I used 2 crap sony's 8'' explodes for a few months in my 92 before i went with 2 12 JLs sealed. looking back i should have just made a quick sealed box for them vs going IB for the amount of work i put in to make the install 'decent'. did try and seal up the most i could with expanding foam and some scraps of sound deadener i had lying around. i'm trying hard not to compare my setup of IB to others as those woofers are junk imo. also the only other IB setup i heard the install was hacked and it sounded poor imo. I'd love to hear a good setup like your for instance. My bass from the explodes 'ok' but i far prefer the output and quality of my sealed setup. which may be impart because of the better, larger, woofers.
12-18-2008, 09:37 AM
#50
I've had very good experience with IB installs, especially one I did in my friends car. I got my hands on some eclipse 8's for him and they have excellent IB characteristics. I've never heard the low end bass reproduced so effortlessly than with those subs. The output was pretty damn good too but the lower frequency response is awesome with those.
The setups I've ran have all done pretty well and I've come to the realization that I enjoying have my <80hz information inside the cabin. I don't like my subs in the trunk being blocked out of the cabin.
The setups I've ran have all done pretty well and I've come to the realization that I enjoying have my <80hz information inside the cabin. I don't like my subs in the trunk being blocked out of the cabin.
12-18-2008, 10:01 AM
#51
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This quote doesn’t say anything about low frequency:
From: http://www.termpro.com/articles/subwoof.html
"Unfortunately, there are several disadvantages to the infinite baffle. When a speaker is mounted in an enclosure, the air inside the enclosure acts like a spring against the speaker cone, and he resulting buildup in pressure provides mechanical damping and prevents excessive cone movement. But an infinite-baffle installation does not use an enclosure, so the mechanical damping is poor, resulting in "hang-over" and lack of definition. The power handling of the speaker will also be compromised since the infinite baffle provides very little control over cone excursion."
is term pro not a good source for information?
also i googled and just found this:
From:http://www.mobileinformationlabs.com...e-baffel_1.htm
"Disadvantages of this design are difficulty (sometimes extreme) in completely isolating the two sides of the cone from each other, and slightly less accurate sound reproduction." granted they could be wrong but is there a finite answer on this subject?
"Unfortunately, there are several disadvantages to the infinite baffle. When a speaker is mounted in an enclosure, the air inside the enclosure acts like a spring against the speaker cone, and he resulting buildup in pressure provides mechanical damping and prevents excessive cone movement. But an infinite-baffle installation does not use an enclosure, so the mechanical damping is poor, resulting in "hang-over" and lack of definition. The power handling of the speaker will also be compromised since the infinite baffle provides very little control over cone excursion."
is term pro not a good source for information?
also i googled and just found this:
From:http://www.mobileinformationlabs.com...e-baffel_1.htm
"Disadvantages of this design are difficulty (sometimes extreme) in completely isolating the two sides of the cone from each other, and slightly less accurate sound reproduction." granted they could be wrong but is there a finite answer on this subject?
Having said that, can anyone prove their IB or any other set up gets down to 30hz? Seems pretty low to me I am guessing many box setups don’t even get down there very well. Anyone have some graphs/stats on that? I've never seen charts or logs showing system range and db levels at designated hz points.
Here are my threads on the it. Hope it helps you.
http://forums.maxima.org/audio-elect...-stock-hu.html
http://www.6thgenmaxima.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2404
12-18-2008, 10:08 AM
#52
The G35 I did down into the 20's before it started to break up. 
Decent amount of cone area for the amount of air space coupled with a decent amount of power. I had to turn the amp way down though. The Alpine PDX1000.1 was a bit much for them IB.
Decent amount of cone area for the amount of air space coupled with a decent amount of power. I had to turn the amp way down though. The Alpine PDX1000.1 was a bit much for them IB.
12-18-2008, 12:42 PM
#53
I am very satisfied with my IB setup. Right now would change a thing except for perhaps some more deadening to fix some rattles I've discovered. Nismos14 is the one who helped with my IB setups. He know's what he's talking about.
Here are my threads on the it. Hope it helps you.
http://forums.maxima.org/audio-elect...-stock-hu.html
http://www.6thgenmaxima.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2404
12-18-2008, 01:52 PM
#55
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The MTX seem to pack more of a thump. Not quite as detailed ,if you can call a sub that, but a more full thump, the just hit, that's what they do. I think they are about half of what the OA8s cost.
My MTX give 300w bridged into 4ohms. 5volt output from the Eclipse headunit.
Both the MTX and OA8's waaaay out played the stock subs.
Your idea for deadening is right on, that was the very first thing I did was add some deadening to the doors and a Dynoxorb behind the speakers and it did make an improvment:
12-19-2008, 12:04 AM
#59
. My advice is to go IB right off the bat and see how you like that. I really don't see a down side to IB. Saves space, saves weight, sounds better than stock. (Your current system won't hit 30hz anyway will it?).
Your idea for deadening is right on, that was the very first thing I did was add some deadening to the doors and a Dynoxorb behind the speakers and it did make an improvment:
Last edited by Jreed2008; 12-19-2008 at 12:11 AM.
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