spirilis

iTrader: (2)

In my quest to learn and master clutch, I've always upshifted by pushing clutch, moving out of gear and straight into the next gear, then releasing the clutch pedal (in a sensitive way, i.e. pulling the clutch pedal up fast but then slowing the release around where the clutch engages, while giving it a light amount of throttle to prevent engine braking "jerk"). I cal lthis "single-clutching".

Now I'm trying something different--double-clutching while upshifting, e.g. push clutch in lightly, pull out of gear into neutral, let RPMs drop for a split second (possibly not all the way to where they should be), push clutch all the way, move into gear (usually goes in easier than when I single-clutch), release clutch pedal and if all goes well, I don't even have to touch the accelerator for a smooth clutch engagement.

Thoughts...? Is this good or bad? (I'd suspect done right all the time it should reduce long-term wear on the clutch?) Should this be limited to regular driving (RPMs drop slower if you let them drop in neutral as opposed to forcing them down by releasing the clutch pedal in a higher gear) while "spirited" driving should be performed single-clutched for quicker shifting? Side effects include extra clutch pedal action (sounds goofy hearing my foot smack the clutch pedal so often), and if I let the RPMs drop too far and I pull the clutch pedal up too quickly, it jerks, but that's all practice.

I usually single-clutch while upshifting if the RPM difference isn't big (e.g. 2000RPM in 3rd, going into 4th), but if I wind 1st out to 4K RPM, I'll double-clutch into 2nd so I don't feel as much "jerkiness" (or ride the clutch by releasing the pedal too slowly while coming onto the gas). In fact, it was the "riding the clutch" experience which gave me the idea of double-clutching while upshifting. Sometimes while trying to soften a steep upshift single-clutched (1st at 4000 into 2nd), I found myself pushing the gas too early, thus transferring a lot of power through the clutch while the clutch pedal wasn't all the way up. Can't imagine how many miles I shaved off the clutch's life while doing that

00SEinMA

I don't mean this in any offensive way... I think it sounds like your still having a little trouble just being comf. with a standard and having it be second nature. I think you should focus on regular driving and get 100% with it before you start the fancy stuff. Also to my best knowledge, double clutching is much more effective on a downshift to match revs between the clutch and the flywheel. As long as you shift slowly on upshifts it shouldn't realy wear the clutch all that much.

-James

Nismo

iTrader: (18)

its all about rev matching not how you step on the clutch

spirilis

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, I try double-clutching while downshifting whenever I can (i.e. when I don't have my foot on the brake, not gonna try heel-toe anytime soon)

I guess I'm too used to driving automatics and fast shifting but at least I know I'm not doing anything "wrong" per se...

00SEinMA

when you downshift you need to flutter the gas to match the revs... this will also help the life of your syncros... heel toe will come soon enough

DJSmitty

Double-clutching replaces what your syncros do (spin up your transmission to wheel speed while the clutch is disconnecting your engine). If you time your upshift right, your transmission and engine RPMs will drop enough to match the wheels just right, without having to double-clutch. For this reason, double-clutching is best for downshifting, especially when you're going from a very low RPM to very high (4th to 2nd under heavy breaking).

During daily driving, you'll do more wear to your clutch by double-clutching because you're engaging it twice, even if once it's only transmission load. Syncros will last a really long time. Save it for those heavy downshifts.

It's like the long debated 'downshift to brake'. Sure, you don't have to use the brakes as much, but a clutch is much more expensive than a new set of pads.

<- All my opinion, go ahead and listend to everyone else too.


-Smitty

spirilis

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the replies. Yeah I know exactly what double-clutching does and why it's useful, especially for downshifting. And up until now I've always upshifted normally as you've all suggested, but I think this "technique" helps most for the large RPM drops, e.g. 1st to 2nd while trying to gun it
Just another trick under my sleeve I guess

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

knock it off!
your "double clutching" method is almost correct, but your causing alot more harm than good. The actual way:
1. Push in clutch
2. Take car out of gear (put in neutral)
3. release clutch
4. blip the gas (this brings the engine side of the tranny up to speed)
5. push in clutch
6. select gear
7. release clutch

now yes, your method works because 1: your clutch is still grabbing the flywheel/pressure plate, but it is slipping, therefore shaving valuable clutch material off your clutch. and 2: because your transmission is syncronised, and no matter what they will do their job, and there is no way to get around that (unless you break one of them).

Now I would sometimes double clutch on the 5th gen for 3rd gear because it's syncro is on the way out; key word being sometimes. It just depends, normally its when I let the tranny speed drop too much, and i want to increase it so the syncros dont have to work so hard (ie. me have to shove it into gear making somewhat of a grinding noise).

Also sometimes I dont use the clutch at all, if your going to attempt this, make sure you know the way your car behavies (ie. rpm x gear = mph, and viceversa) and practice. Note: I only did this while cruising, just taking it slow/easy, and also my clutch was slipping and didnt feel like using it much

wariow

iTrader: (3)

does anyone else hate going from first to 2nd gear? It's easier to hop or jerk the car when going from first to 2nd than going 2nd-3rd-4th-5th which isn't a problem at all, nice n smooth with good gains without going over 3k rpm on each gear. I also like to conserve gas so i don't really have a heavy foot. I usually change gears just before hitting 3k rpm for maximum fuel efficiency and to baby the engine. When taking my foot off the gas in 1st to clutch in for 2nd gear the car slows down a bit then when I enter 2nd gear the car jerks a lil. I can get the transition to be really smooth but the acceleration isn't as smooth and quick . I look into my rear mirror and the auto drivers behind me do not expect the sudden stall in acceleration because of the manual transmission and they're pretty damn close to rear ending me. Then I would try to pull ahead and try to change gears and accelerate quickly which causes the car to jerk a lil. I also do not want to burn the clutch away either. Bottom line, I want to save gas, save clutch and accelerate at a decent speed without the jerking my passengers and the car. Any pointers?

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

Wariow- push on the gas while your releasing the clutch, then you will either maintain the same speed, or possiably accelerate alittle more. Just experiment abit and you'll find it. also dont take too long to get up to speed, if you take 10 seconds to get upto 35mph, and i only take 7, I might actually be saving gas (maybe doing a 1st gear, 2nd gear, 4th gear cruise). Just play around with it.

blizz20oma

iTrader: (1)

Why wear on your clutch like that? You should be able to get smooth, snappy, straight 1-2 shifts at any RPM. If you don't, you need to practice feel a bit more. Keep in mind that feel, etc, vary a tiny bit on inclines/hills.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Shift as if you are holding an egg as the shifter ball. That should result in smooth everyday shifting and alot less stress on the gearbox.