you really want me to post your pic from OT?

 

what does that have to do with anything.... atleast i posted a pic. why don;t you post a pic?

 

I feel no need to try to explain anything technical to someone that thinks a huge disco shift light is necessary in order to operate the shft the car properly

 

Is that all you got jeff come up with something new... how about the radiator cap?
Sorry i like to look at the road instead of my TACH

 

what's your problem with show you show me?

i already owned you w/ the car pic. are you that insecure that you need to prove a point with pics? what are you adding to this thread anyway? do you have a BBK? knowledge of BBK? (no not from your textbooks either) all you're doing is adding your usual moronic comments that has nothing to do w/ the subject at hand. you constantly get owned by the forum and it seems like you enjoy it. are you upset that others know more about the subject at hand than yourself? what's your deal man?

this is getting OT...i'm done. for once learn to shut your trap and read the information that's posted instead of adding your stupid comments that holds zero value.

 

as opposed to all your informative comments...ok you win

 

Its better than misinformation

 

Actually both parties are right, so it's time for a little schooling.

Larger diameter rotors help up until the point where you overpower the tires on the car. After you reach that point, going larger is pointless as far as stopping power (torque) because you have already reached the limit of the tires, and all more torque will do is lock up more. There is a limit to the amount of grip any given tire produces, hence his comments about R compound tires. After you have reached the limit of your street tires, if you wish to achieve more braking, you must generate more grip. The easiest way to do this is to get stickier tires. That (I believe) is the point Jason was trying to make even though it got lost in the myriad of nitpicking that went on.

Just because you have a $4200 big brake kit doesn't mean you know what you're talking about, and just because you don't have one doesn't mean you don't. I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about, but just having a shiny new bbk doesn't automatically make one an expert, and not having one doesn't automatically make one unintelligent. I don't have some crazy AP racing BBK, but I do have more experience than 99.9999% of the people on this board do on road courses with BBKs, and I trust my experience and those experiences of those I know on road courses more than I trust any joe who just had an extra few thousand to use on a nice BBK. There are those who know what they are talking about, and those who don't on both ends of the spectrum.

 

Thank you! Very well put. I tried to say the same thing, but it was not nearly as eloquent. I still contend that you don't need "Type R" tires to be able to reap the benefit of a BBK that uses more caliper pistons and rotors with an increased diameter.

 

You could probably overpower the R compounds with the stock brakes. But you would have to be standing on the brake pedal all the time to do it. I don't think that's very favorable. I also tell people to upgrade the rears but very few if any even consider that.

 

I wouldnt say haters.... just ignorant

They dont know any better and have a hard time accepting when they're wrong.

 

1. What intelligent comments have you brought to the table, nothing. I was having a technical discussion with Jeff, nothing more. What makes you such an expert?

2. The OEM brakes are fine for the street with the pad. You are better off upgrading the suspension and tires first on a Maxima. On the track, my stock brakes faded real bad and the pads melted. You would definetly turn much better lap times with a BBK because you could brake deeper.

 

I highly doubt that you could overpower heated R compounds with the OEM brakes. I know that my friends old Z06 with PF01 pads and SS lines had a hard time overpowering his goodyear slicks. That combination produced some amazing braking.

 

now that my thread is COMPLETELY hijacked..for the third time...does ANYONE know if I need any special hardware to install the pads in the 300zx calipers besides just the pads and the calipers?????

 

is the caliper loaded?

 

no....and I ordered a set of Hawk HPS pads...

 

http://www.ttzd.com/tech/brakestech.html

 

your going to need clips,pins and shims all of which can be obtained at the dealer.

 

ok welp..
you have the shims on the pads itself.
then there are 2 pins that goes on the top. brake pad retainer?
then there's a big spring (more like a big piece of bent metal) that goes on the top of the caliper...i believe that goes under the pins.
last you have the spring (basically a thin metal wire) that hooks to the 2 pins.

i think that's pretty much it.

 

i believe he's looking for the exact components...not just "shims and stuff from the dealer"...i know you're trying to help (i think) but it doesn't seem like you're familar with the 300ZX caliper. perhaps this is a good time to stop posting about something you don't have a clue about.

 

Well Danny if you had taken the time to click on my link in post #101 you would see some the components were listed and i am familiard with the 300zx caliper Mr. all knowing moderator. I performed this swap on my friends S14 and owned at set of 26mm NA calipers that i was going to install on my S13 before i sold it but i am sure you knew that being as your an expert at everything.
Anyway this should help.


print that out take it to the dealer and you can get everything you need. i don't have the exact part #'s but i am sure you can find it online.

 

what link in post 101 brain child?

i only see this garbage. does that help him much??

Originally Posted by zack342
your going to need clips,pins and shims all of which can be obtained at the dealer.

if you were going to help then post the pic...not tell him to you need clips and pins and to go to the dealer.

i see what you post...then draw my conclusion to your lack of knowledge.
i'm NOT all knowing...but what i do know is that i know more than you. should i call you "Mr. know nothing poster"?

are you still sour that i banned you for crying like a girl and cursing at the members when no one believed your Nismo radiator cap theory?

 

Just looked at my calipers, you've pretty much got it covered.

 

I ment post #100. You know more than me about what brakes,ooooooohhhh you the man. I did dyno with stock radiator car and nismo radiator cap. i am not upset about you banning me basically i was right and you got upset so you shut me up the only way you could you banned me for a day. Anyway that picture should have all the info he needs.

 

so wait..you still believe the nismo radiator cap gave you a power increase compared to the stock?

not just brakes...i concluded that i know more than you overall.

haahaa...i don't get upset on the org..i believe >>YOU<< got upset because no one believed you and you had to cry that you're an engineer bs and then decided to curse out everyone. THAT'S WHY I BANNED YOU..GET IT STRAIGHT JUNIOR!

stop the BS because if i see someone going off the deep end like you did that time and started cursing and etc i will ban them too...you're just another number.

ok i'm done with this thread.

 

Have you tried? Or has Neal tried? Your Vette buddy. "hard time" Under what conditions was that?

All I asked if you were going 100mph and absolutely stood on the brakes, could you lock them up? I say yes. I got no clear reply from you.

 

Neal hasn't tried nor have I, Have you? The conditions that my friend ran was at a roadcourse; Gingerman raceway which is very hard on brakes BTW. The tires were fully warm goodyear slicks. Neal was in the car for a few laps and can attest to the braking and how hard they were pushing the car.

My brakes wouldn't lock up at 100 mph because I have ABS. I have never tried to kick in ABS at 100 mph. If you have to stop quick you would "threshold" brake, since locking up the brakes produces longer stopping distances.

 

I haven't either. Or else I'd be posting the answer and not the question.

The reason I asked if one could lock the brakes with R compounds is that if you can lock them (like I think one can), then clearly the brakes have not been overpowered. The brakes would have the ability to overcome the grip of the tire(for however short of time).

Now fade resistance is another issue to me. But we always agreed on this subject.

Well in theory, if the stock brakes could not "overcome" the r compounds, then the ABS would never be engaged. As the ABS system senses when the wheel stops spinning and then activates.

 

I can put my friends Hoosier's on my front end to test it out, but the problem I see is that it's 30 degrees out. There would be no way that I could get them to "operating" temperature on the street. I would need to take my car to the track and run a few laps to get them heated up. I personally don't think that there is a chance that the OEM brakes would overpower R compounds. The only way I would say it's possible is if you changed the pads to Hawk Blues or something similar.

Edit:
I could do a quick burnout to get the tires warm, but the pavement is still going to be roughly 40 degress.

 

Sounds reasonable. I wouldn't want to ask someone to try it.

My point was even if you could get the stock brakes to haul down well, you would have to be literally standing on them. With BBKs, the increased torque advantage of the larger rotor along with the other many benefits of the Z calipers,ss lines, one wouldn't be as hard to get the same amount of braking power. ie... better feel as you have said. So we understand each other?

 

Yes I would agree with that statement. The increase in pistons would apply pressure more evenly across the pad. The SS lines would flex less, which would also increase feel to the driver. A different compound pad(more aggressive) would help increase feel and decrease fade also.

My main arguement was that a BBK doesn't necessarily decrease stopping distances. A BBK will be able to disapate thermal energy more effectively, thus the decrease in distance. The distance decrease is more prevalant during higher speed stops because of the difference in fade charachteristics(OEM vs BBK). Yesterday, I might have not been too clear in my arguement because I was trying to write a business plan for class while checking this thread.

 

Okay, my arguementment is that BBKs that use larger rotors DO decrease dist braking. Because the torque arm advantages of moving the caliper out increases the amount of braking force onto the rotor. As stated by me and Stoptech. As long as the pads/rotors can accomodate the increased force that is now applied, braking distances should shorten. In fact the torque arm advantage should help even of the rotor/pad can't accomodate the increased forces. But it will only a be able do it until the limits of the rotor/pad are exceeded. So for the first portion of the braking event, more force will be applied vs stock brakes.

If you can agree that bbks do help in the higher speeds, then you should agree that it will help in the lower speeds. But it's that the dist differences are much shorter in the lower speeds. But more force is being applied to the rotor nevertheless.

 

BBK's do work at low speed too, but every scientific test I have seen indicates it's not a 20 ft decrease rather a 1-5 ft decrease. At higher speeds, the distance decreases quite a bit. That's why IMO I feel that BBK's are a waste on the street. I don't brake from 120, nor do I even brake hard enough to induce fade on my OEM's. Thats my 2 cents....

 

Okay, you agree with me so that's out of the way. Now you just think BBKs on the streets are not really needed because you rarely haul it down from 100mph+. I think it would benefit even from 75-90mph but that's IMHO. Now we can agree from lower speeds the dist improvement won't be 20ft. I don't think anyone said that. But:

1) Even at low speeds even a 1ft to 5ft decrease is pretty significant. 5ft is a pretty large dist in brake talk. And is often the difference inbetween hitting someone and not hitting someone.
2) As you stated, bbk so help greatly the feel dept. Even though you could get the stock brakes do have the capacity to stock the car, how well can they actually do that? If you have to stand on them (ie.. at 90% pedal force) to brake decent (and then try to modulate that), that doesn't sound to great to me. With the significantly greater braking force and fade resistance available from BBKs, one could maybe only apply let's say 60% pedal force to achieve the same 90% pedal force that the stock brakes required. Which to you would be easier to modulate?

IMHO, I think BBKs are a win/win even for street use.

 

Another Caveat would be to relate how much the tire actually helped decrease braking distance. We both agree (hopefully) that the tire is the single most important aspect of a great braking system, as well as the suspension. When you see these "tuner" tests in mags such as C&D or MT they usually upgrade the tires and suspension. I can decrease my braking distance by just swapping my A/S tire to S03's. I personally would like to see a test of the same car, with and without a BBK. That would tell you how much distance is really attributed to the BBK.

I personally am going to put a BBK on my street car. My Mustang will get a custom built BBK utilizing AP 4 or 6 piston racing calipers and 13" Cobra rotors eventually. I am doing this because I plan to track the car occasionally and start autocrossing when I have time. I drive fairly agressively on the track; to the point where the OEM brakes aren't cutting it. A brand new roadcoursce just opened 25 minutes from my door, which is great since I used to have to travel 2 hours to go to Gingerman. I always worried about my car breaking there, but thats not an issue now.

 

Any enthusist would put a decent tire on. So you have better tires. That have the ability to brake better. But now you are now getting into the stock brakes even deeper. And now you have to stand on the stock brakes even more. Thus modulation becomes even more difficult. Hence my previous post.
And most of my comments weren't even about dist reduction. Although that is one big benefit.

 

You can also put SS lines on and good pads, which would improve feel and modulation on the stock brakes. It will not be as good as a BBK will be, but it's good enough for 99.9% of Maxima owners.

 

I'm not disputing that. Never did. So you do confirm that the BBK will greatly help the street drivers. Especially if you think ss lines and better pads will. BBK with ss lines, big heat radiating rotors and good pads. Think about it.

I do contend that a BBK will improve braking a BIG amount more than just pads will.

 

Yes a BBK will help street drivers, IF they know how to take advantage it. I am still going to contest that you will no take full advantage of them on the street. The OEM are fine for normal street driving. It would take an experienced driver to take full advantages of what a BBK has to offer. It would take a person that's been on the track or autocrossed, to know how to properly modulate the brakes in a panic situation. Given the number of posts in the Auto-X/RR section, this is a very small few.

 

Thing is by my discussions, bbks make modulation easier. I believe you said as such as well.

Maximas also go well over 100mph. Not everyone can handle a car at those speeds. But everyone buys Y pipes and intakes.