Gas Prices
04-22-2001, 11:16 AM
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: excellent
Originally posted by pmar
Great point. Have you noticed how "program cards" are being cancelled? For the last 7 years you could get a 4% rebate on all gas that you bought. You think they want to give you $0.08 off every gallon you buy? They want to give you 0.03 or less, these rebates cut into big oil and little retailer's profits because it's a fixed 4%. So the answer is to revoke the program.
Great point. Have you noticed how "program cards" are being cancelled? For the last 7 years you could get a 4% rebate on all gas that you bought. You think they want to give you $0.08 off every gallon you buy? They want to give you 0.03 or less, these rebates cut into big oil and little retailer's profits because it's a fixed 4%. So the answer is to revoke the program.
Also, if you've got a membership at Costco, you can use their pumps which (at least here in Aurora, CO) offer 87 octane at around $1.35 and 91 at $1.45. Cheap.
To the other poster:
Please, all corporations get mucho tax benefits. I just read an annual report on a stock I own and their effective tax rate was 31.7%. A far-cry from the 40+% that we always envision for US corporations. They attribute "leasing and financing activities, lower state and local taxes, and 'lower taxes attributable to international sourced income'" as the reason. You think Cisco didn't just write down their inventory for tax-benefits at the shareholders' expense? I'm in the 31% tax-bracket myself and you better believe I'd do what it takes to lower my effective rate.
Quit the childish behavior; anyone who seriously doubts there's a gigantic oil cartel, rather nicely assisted by the US gov't in exchange for keeping prices in check here in the US, needs to hit the books.
04-22-2001, 11:17 AM
#42
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,604
Originally posted by Jesse93GXE
Let me make it clear that, yes, *relative to the US*, Europe has much higher taxes on gasoline.
Why? Because the US gives *tax breaks* to US oil companies. Another name for those tax breaks are subsidies.
So both statements are true. European gas prices are higher due to taxes. The US federal government (and state ones, typically) give subsidies to US oil companies in the form of tax breaks. Result: cheaper gas prices in the US.
Let me make it clear that, yes, *relative to the US*, Europe has much higher taxes on gasoline.
Why? Because the US gives *tax breaks* to US oil companies. Another name for those tax breaks are subsidies.
So both statements are true. European gas prices are higher due to taxes. The US federal government (and state ones, typically) give subsidies to US oil companies in the form of tax breaks. Result: cheaper gas prices in the US.
Oil companies are intensely taxed. Just like consumers who buy it. The one and only explanation for the US / European disparity is higher consumption and fuel taxes in Europe.
04-22-2001, 03:18 PM
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 172
acitrano, I am not mistaken.
I listed several of the specific tax breaks and their estimated values that oil companies get for being in the oil business in an earlier post. Go back and read it to get the details and links to more information.
Yes, taxes are higher in Europe, which is why prices are higher. The taxes there are higher, because we give oil companies tax breaks (SUBSIDIES) above and beyond what all major corporations get.
I'll cut and paste the names of the tax break programs here, but I suggest you go look back at what I posted earlier, and maybe do some research of your own:
the Percentage Depletion Allowance (a subsidy of $784 million to $1 billion per year), the Nonconventional Fuel Production Credit ($769 to $900 million), immediate expensing of exploration and development costs ($200 to $255 million), the Enhanced Oil Recovery Credit ($26.3 to $100 million), foreign tax credits ($1.11 to $3.4 billion), foreign income deferrals ($183 to $318 million), and accelerated depreciation allowances ($1.0 to $4.5 billion).
Anyway, I'm done (for real
, anyone who's really interested by now has heard enough to look into it on their own. Others can just endure ignorant bliss, even if they don't understand why and how good we have it due to subsidies.
I listed several of the specific tax breaks and their estimated values that oil companies get for being in the oil business in an earlier post. Go back and read it to get the details and links to more information.
Yes, taxes are higher in Europe, which is why prices are higher. The taxes there are higher, because we give oil companies tax breaks (SUBSIDIES) above and beyond what all major corporations get.
I'll cut and paste the names of the tax break programs here, but I suggest you go look back at what I posted earlier, and maybe do some research of your own:
the Percentage Depletion Allowance (a subsidy of $784 million to $1 billion per year), the Nonconventional Fuel Production Credit ($769 to $900 million), immediate expensing of exploration and development costs ($200 to $255 million), the Enhanced Oil Recovery Credit ($26.3 to $100 million), foreign tax credits ($1.11 to $3.4 billion), foreign income deferrals ($183 to $318 million), and accelerated depreciation allowances ($1.0 to $4.5 billion).
Anyway, I'm done (for real
, anyone who's really interested by now has heard enough to look into it on their own. Others can just endure ignorant bliss, even if they don't understand why and how good we have it due to subsidies.
04-23-2001, 07:18 AM
#45
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,604
Originally posted by Jesse93GXE
acitrano, I am not mistaken.
I listed several of the specific tax breaks and their estimated values that oil companies get for being in the oil business in an earlier post. Go back and read it to get the details and links to more information.
Yes, taxes are higher in Europe, which is why prices are higher. The taxes there are higher, because we give oil companies tax breaks (SUBSIDIES) above and beyond what all major corporations get.
I'll cut and paste the names of the tax break programs here, but I suggest you go look back at what I posted earlier, and maybe do some research of your own:
the Percentage Depletion Allowance (a subsidy of $784 million to $1 billion per year), the Nonconventional Fuel Production Credit ($769 to $900 million), immediate expensing of exploration and development costs ($200 to $255 million), the Enhanced Oil Recovery Credit ($26.3 to $100 million), foreign tax credits ($1.11 to $3.4 billion), foreign income deferrals ($183 to $318 million), and accelerated depreciation allowances ($1.0 to $4.5 billion).
Anyway, I'm done (for real, anyone who's really interested by now has heard enough to look into it on their own. Others can just endure ignorant bliss, even if they don't understand why and how good we have it due to subsidies.
acitrano, I am not mistaken.
I listed several of the specific tax breaks and their estimated values that oil companies get for being in the oil business in an earlier post. Go back and read it to get the details and links to more information.
Yes, taxes are higher in Europe, which is why prices are higher. The taxes there are higher, because we give oil companies tax breaks (SUBSIDIES) above and beyond what all major corporations get.
I'll cut and paste the names of the tax break programs here, but I suggest you go look back at what I posted earlier, and maybe do some research of your own:
the Percentage Depletion Allowance (a subsidy of $784 million to $1 billion per year), the Nonconventional Fuel Production Credit ($769 to $900 million), immediate expensing of exploration and development costs ($200 to $255 million), the Enhanced Oil Recovery Credit ($26.3 to $100 million), foreign tax credits ($1.11 to $3.4 billion), foreign income deferrals ($183 to $318 million), and accelerated depreciation allowances ($1.0 to $4.5 billion).
Anyway, I'm done (for real
, anyone who's really interested by now has heard enough to look into it on their own. Others can just endure ignorant bliss, even if they don't understand why and how good we have it due to subsidies.
Well most of these tax credits (shared among several major oil companies) would be a tiny drop in the bucket. A few tax credits do not a subsidy make. These tax credits probably break down to a penny a gallon if you break them up.
And what do you mean "all the tax breaks a corporation gets" (referring to non-oil companies)?? Damn! You ever run a company?? Corporations get the hell taxed out of them -- and in my opinion this is all double-taxation anyway.
04-23-2001, 08:09 AM
#46
To say that the US Government subsidizes our gasoline prices is inaccurate. First of all, all of you Texas boys out there don't pay state income taxes. Why? Because the state gets all of the revenue that it needs from taxes on oil companies. In fact, at the end of the year, any oil that a company has in inventory is taxed at 6%. That's a ton of money when you're dealing with tens to hundreds of millions of barrels. They also tax you I think 39 cents for every gallon you buy.
Those breaks for big oil companies are for very specifid things. Nonconventional fuel is an important subject because one day oil is going to run out, so we need alternative energy sources out there, and it costs a lot of money in research and development to be able to make alternative fuels affordable, so the government encourages that research, otherwise, down the road, no one would be able to afford it. The current high prices that you see are a result of low inventories - supply and demand. And demand is increasing every year, here in America because everyone has two SUVs in the garage, and in countries like China which has an ever incrreasing middle class which is going to be demanding more and more fuel. Current non-OPEC oil fields are mostly producing as much as they can, which is obviously not enough. We need more production capacity, so exploration and development is important. Ditto for enhanced oil recovery.
I work in the oil dept of an international commodities trading company. Often our European comrades will have a cargo of oil or gasoline in Europe, and they'll want to know what prices are over here. I guarantee that the government doesn't pay us a cent to bring it over here. In fact, our government under Clinton and former DOE Secretary Bill Richardson completely botched out oil policy. Also, you boys in Cali are several years ahead of the rest of the country in eviromental requirements, so a company out there, Unocal, patented a process to refine this reformulated gasoline. Now the EPA says that a third of the nation's pumps need to sell this gasoline this summer. A few oil companied tried to make this gasoline around the patent, but they got slapped with huge fines. The Supreme Court recently upheld this patent, so may companies are just not making this gasoline because the royalties are too much and its tought to work around the patents. So that is certainly not going to help gasoline prices. I'd say more, but I have to get back to work. Bottom line is, decrease demand and pay less.
Those breaks for big oil companies are for very specifid things. Nonconventional fuel is an important subject because one day oil is going to run out, so we need alternative energy sources out there, and it costs a lot of money in research and development to be able to make alternative fuels affordable, so the government encourages that research, otherwise, down the road, no one would be able to afford it. The current high prices that you see are a result of low inventories - supply and demand. And demand is increasing every year, here in America because everyone has two SUVs in the garage, and in countries like China which has an ever incrreasing middle class which is going to be demanding more and more fuel. Current non-OPEC oil fields are mostly producing as much as they can, which is obviously not enough. We need more production capacity, so exploration and development is important. Ditto for enhanced oil recovery.
I work in the oil dept of an international commodities trading company. Often our European comrades will have a cargo of oil or gasoline in Europe, and they'll want to know what prices are over here. I guarantee that the government doesn't pay us a cent to bring it over here. In fact, our government under Clinton and former DOE Secretary Bill Richardson completely botched out oil policy. Also, you boys in Cali are several years ahead of the rest of the country in eviromental requirements, so a company out there, Unocal, patented a process to refine this reformulated gasoline. Now the EPA says that a third of the nation's pumps need to sell this gasoline this summer. A few oil companied tried to make this gasoline around the patent, but they got slapped with huge fines. The Supreme Court recently upheld this patent, so may companies are just not making this gasoline because the royalties are too much and its tought to work around the patents. So that is certainly not going to help gasoline prices. I'd say more, but I have to get back to work. Bottom line is, decrease demand and pay less.
04-23-2001, 10:25 AM
#47
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,604
Re: Re: excellent
Originally posted by willfe
Er, that nice low tax rate is a benefit! A perk the government hands these corporations. Sure, they get loads of tax breaks like most corporations, but they get more because they get breaks on their exploration efforts (and lots of other, oil-company-unique writeoffs.
Er, that nice low tax rate is a benefit! A perk the government hands these corporations. Sure, they get loads of tax breaks like most corporations, but they get more because they get breaks on their exploration efforts (and lots of other, oil-company-unique writeoffs.
Yeh, we're undertaxed! More taxes please!!
04-23-2001, 10:26 AM
#48
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,604
54
Originally posted by jman965765
To say that the US Government subsidizes our gasoline prices is inaccurate. First of all, all of you Texas boys out there don't pay state income taxes. Why? Because the state gets all of the revenue that it needs from taxes on oil companies. In fact, at the end of the year, any oil that a company has in inventory is taxed at 6%. That's a ton of money when you're dealing with tens to hundreds of millions of barrels. They also tax you I think 39 cents for every gallon you buy.
Those breaks for big oil companies are for very specifid things. Nonconventional fuel is an important subject because one day oil is going to run out, so we need alternative energy sources out there, and it costs a lot of money in research and development to be able to make alternative fuels affordable, so the government encourages that research, otherwise, down the road, no one would be able to afford it. The current high prices that you see are a result of low inventories - supply and demand. And demand is increasing every year, here in America because everyone has two SUVs in the garage, and in countries like China which has an ever incrreasing middle class which is going to be demanding more and more fuel. Current non-OPEC oil fields are mostly producing as much as they can, which is obviously not enough. We need more production capacity, so exploration and development is important. Ditto for enhanced oil recovery.
I work in the oil dept of an international commodities trading company. Often our European comrades will have a cargo of oil or gasoline in Europe, and they'll want to know what prices are over here. I guarantee that the government doesn't pay us a cent to bring it over here. In fact, our government under Clinton and former DOE Secretary Bill Richardson completely botched out oil policy. Also, you boys in Cali are several years ahead of the rest of the country in eviromental requirements, so a company out there, Unocal, patented a process to refine this reformulated gasoline. Now the EPA says that a third of the nation's pumps need to sell this gasoline this summer. A few oil companied tried to make this gasoline around the patent, but they got slapped with huge fines. The Supreme Court recently upheld this patent, so may companies are just not making this gasoline because the royalties are too much and its tought to work around the patents. So that is certainly not going to help gasoline prices. I'd say more, but I have to get back to work. Bottom line is, decrease demand and pay less.
To say that the US Government subsidizes our gasoline prices is inaccurate. First of all, all of you Texas boys out there don't pay state income taxes. Why? Because the state gets all of the revenue that it needs from taxes on oil companies. In fact, at the end of the year, any oil that a company has in inventory is taxed at 6%. That's a ton of money when you're dealing with tens to hundreds of millions of barrels. They also tax you I think 39 cents for every gallon you buy.
Those breaks for big oil companies are for very specifid things. Nonconventional fuel is an important subject because one day oil is going to run out, so we need alternative energy sources out there, and it costs a lot of money in research and development to be able to make alternative fuels affordable, so the government encourages that research, otherwise, down the road, no one would be able to afford it. The current high prices that you see are a result of low inventories - supply and demand. And demand is increasing every year, here in America because everyone has two SUVs in the garage, and in countries like China which has an ever incrreasing middle class which is going to be demanding more and more fuel. Current non-OPEC oil fields are mostly producing as much as they can, which is obviously not enough. We need more production capacity, so exploration and development is important. Ditto for enhanced oil recovery.
I work in the oil dept of an international commodities trading company. Often our European comrades will have a cargo of oil or gasoline in Europe, and they'll want to know what prices are over here. I guarantee that the government doesn't pay us a cent to bring it over here. In fact, our government under Clinton and former DOE Secretary Bill Richardson completely botched out oil policy. Also, you boys in Cali are several years ahead of the rest of the country in eviromental requirements, so a company out there, Unocal, patented a process to refine this reformulated gasoline. Now the EPA says that a third of the nation's pumps need to sell this gasoline this summer. A few oil companied tried to make this gasoline around the patent, but they got slapped with huge fines. The Supreme Court recently upheld this patent, so may companies are just not making this gasoline because the royalties are too much and its tought to work around the patents. So that is certainly not going to help gasoline prices. I'd say more, but I have to get back to work. Bottom line is, decrease demand and pay less.
All very well said. It's nice to see someone else posting who has perspective, experience, and isn't obviously anti-business!
04-23-2001, 11:03 AM
#49
Originally posted by JUGSMAX
How much is 92 or 93 octane cost a gallon where you live at now? Me; East Tennessee 93 octane $1.69...How about you?
How much is 92 or 93 octane cost a gallon where you live at now? Me; East Tennessee 93 octane $1.69...How about you?
04-23-2001, 12:03 PM
#50
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 552
as high as...
It is as high as 79.7 cents a leter here in Toronto, in Montreal it is as high as 85.1 cents/L. You Americans do the math
They say it will go up to 90 cents over the summer.
AND THAT'S THE PRICES FOR THE CHEAP STUFF!!!
92 and 93 is like 90cents here.
They say it will go up to 90 cents over the summer.
AND THAT'S THE PRICES FOR THE CHEAP STUFF!!!
92 and 93 is like 90cents here.
04-23-2001, 06:40 PM
#51
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 200
Re: as high as...
Originally posted by Riot^
It is as high as 79.7 cents a leter here in Toronto, in Montreal it is as high as 85.1 cents/L. You Americans do the math
They say it will go up to 90 cents over the summer.
AND THAT'S THE PRICES FOR THE CHEAP STUFF!!!
92 and 93 is like 90cents here.
It is as high as 79.7 cents a leter here in Toronto, in Montreal it is as high as 85.1 cents/L. You Americans do the math
They say it will go up to 90 cents over the summer.
AND THAT'S THE PRICES FOR THE CHEAP STUFF!!!
92 and 93 is like 90cents here.
If hockey games cost only 18 bucks I'd gladly pay 2.09 for gas as I already pay nearly $2. Montrealers have it good. Since this post started our gas went up another 5 cents per gallon. I'm not sure how we flew off on this tangent. All I was saying is that those involved with oil manipulate things. It's not pure demand driving those prices up. It's artificial shortages too.
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