Some more..

The next two shots show how close the LIM almost matches the heads.





Here is how the stock gasket lines up with the LIM port - the LIM port is wider.







Here are two photos of both manifolds sitting on the engine.

 

nice work my friend

 

Hey grey99max, This new plastic IM can work on your car?

 

Thanks - it's a cold winter, so some time to plan. Any bright ideas would be appreciated. The LIM almost fits, but I guess it's not going to be plug-and-play. Another forum player, bamboomerang , is also working with this combination, so two minds are better than one.



You know, it just occured to me that if machine work on the LIM will make this work, then the same machinist (also a professional drag racer with a Wally) could possibly duplicate the work at a reasonable cost.




EDIT: I just ordered the intake port gaskets for both VQ35DE 2008 heads - and also the four missing bolts to hold the LIM and UIM together - since I might actually need them now, if the project works out.

 

The lower 2008 intake manifold will not bolt onto the heads without some major work. The upper intake bolts to the 2008 lower, but some work will be required to attach a cable-driven throttle body. Simple answer - not yet.

 

that manifold almost looks like the VQ40 we have sitting in the garage, esp how the ports are more squared and the lower manifold.

better flow and ports , this project looks promising ! I wonder how it will hold under boost/spray..

 

If I can get it mounted, I'll find out how it handles spray. Getting 12 nozzles on the runners will require a little trickery, but I think I know how to do it.



Oh, for what it's worth, I checked on Courtesy's site for pixs, and I see that the 2009 and later Maximas also have the plastic UIM. Also, the engine block diagrams show three oil squirters around the crank! Looks like the 2007+ Altima and 2009+ Maximas have new blocks ?

 

The 09+ maxima upper 'looks' different in pics, the plenum doesn't run 'straight' across the runners like it is on the altima and murano. FSM diagrams don't differentiate either, I'd call my local dealer to find out, if I thought the parts guy actually new what an intake manifold was.

Who knows, once the lower is figured out, there might be multiple options. Rumour has it the Frontier shares the same heads as the new gen 3.5. (http://my350z.com/forum/engine-and-d...or-a-vq40.html)


ALTIMA



MAXIMA


VQ40

 

Yea , I had a customer that came in with a 09 and I had it on the lift, from top to bottom the motor is totally differnt VS my a34.

from the time I saw the motor , I was thinking of the 07 Altimas already, but the cover looks a bit differnt.

But I have never seen the ports on these Plastic IMs until you posted them, which now reminds me of the VQ40 manifold.

I will take some pics of that this weekend as we have a full VQ40DE sitting at my neighbor garage right now.

we also notice on the VQ that the Fuel rail is squared , looks like more volume in the fuel rails, again I will snap some pics of comparison of manifolds.

could you get an alum piece made up as an adaptor for the lower manifold to bolt to the head ? that may bring the lower manifold up , but then the injectors would spray further up , and that may run into issues there.

 

It looks like both bamboomerang and meself are on the trail of making the Altima LIM fit on the "old" 3.5, so I think I'm going to have surgery done on my Alty LIM. If one or both of us can make this fit, we'll post what we know. You know that you can buy these parts new from Nissan for about $70 lower and $260 upper?

Please get lots of close-up hi-res photos of any 4.0 you get close to. It sounds like there may be other options for a UIM besides the Altima. This could get very interesting. Anybody got a good name for the Altima IM project? Like "07ALTYVI" or "ALTY07" or something else? Time to name this work....

 

My parts are in the mail. The monday following the day they arrive, an automotive machinist will have both LIM's in hand to bring the new one as close to the original's spec as possible and I'll post up the results. As long as the necessary material can be shaved down without affecting the integrity of the injector ports, hopefully all that's left is simply the port matching of the heads/lower, and possibly widening/elongating the holes for the mounting studs/bolts; I plan on using an altima (or maybe the vq40!?) fuel rail. My fall back will be porting an old 3.5 LIM to the port diameters, so worse case scenario something doesn't work out after the engine is re-assembled, I can 'return to stock'. I originally considered an adapter plate for the composite UIM to our old LIM awhile back, but 2 of the ports would be significantly off, and that morphing from an adaptor plate would offset some of the gains that hopefully make this mod worth it. A LIM adaptor plate would majorly offset the cost of this unless it was mass produced. It's hard to say whether this will ever be a 'bolt on' affair without significant alteration of the LIM or the head inlet ports, since the head/lower port diameter isn't the same, and actually steps down in size.

 

^^ I will get some pics of the Fuel Rail on the 4.0

I know they wont bolt back in the 3.5 LIM.

so you may need mod it / making adapator brackets

 

^Can't wait. It's hard to believe pics of a 7th gen UIM aren't free floating around this place, I couldn't find a single one.

 

the 7th gen is too new to be toyed with I guess, we are just now getting more 6th gens in the junkyard , I like to see how the out come is ...

Altho I wont be using this setup , I still would love to see options out there

 

I took the Alty LIM - and an older LIM - to my machinist today. We discussed a plan, and since my '08 Altima manifold/head gaskets and bolts will be here tomorrow, I'm taking those gaskets, a 2005 gasket, the upper '08 UIM, two sets of fuel rails with injectors, and a spare complete '05 cylinder head with bolts and studs to him tomorrow.

He quickly identified several areas of concern with making the new LIM fit, and I feel confident that he understands the problem. Heck, maybe this will work....



( I see that FallenOne has suggested "The Plastic VI" as a project name - anyone else? )

Something else - if we can actually make this work, do I plan on getting any more LIMs made up ?

 

Why not the 07VI? Sort of like the 00VI or MEVI.

 

Catchy name - any more suggestions?

 

I like 07VI

 

Sounds good to me. You realize that this project is because of your comments about going back to the original upper intake and ditching the SSIM. The more I thought about it, I hoped I could maybe gain larger runners and keep the balanced split-runner design for better low end, which my new engine needs - at least NA.

We'll see what happens next week. 07VI it is.

 

sorry , this isnt much but I didnt have much time to take more pics, I forgot to take pics of the fuel rail but I will see my nieghbor next weekend since he works in a differnt city and doesnt come back til the weekend.

Next time I'll remember to bring a Vernier to measure the ports, not sure if that matters.

Altho me and my nieghbor were looking at the square ports VS the 3.5 manifold



the ports

 

Here is a link to an interesting article on intake manifolds, good technical information.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...ake/index.html

 

Got it on.

Requires:
a) Relocating all the bolt holes on the LIM.
b) Removing a substantial amount of material/reshaping/re-angling the injector passageway on the heads.
c) Porting all the intake runners on the head at the LIM=|=head.
d) Shaving down the outside of the the LIM walls/flange (approx 2 mm) on the runners for cylinders 1 and 2 (I think , my shortblock is on a stand, might be 5 and 6).

Macro shots to come, 56k and these E-14's are killin' me.

 

As you know , we need pics NAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! or BANNED

 

I'll have some full body shots when the block is back from the shop, 11.5 CR baby! in the meantime . . .

to get it to sit like this . . .



first need to . . .



but then all the bolt/stud holes . . .


bolt'er down, but the injectors ports don't exactly ugh . . .


The alignment and angle is all wrong . . .


Near death experience . . .


fockin aliens eh . . .


Go bigger?



bush-league machining tactics . . .



Initial guide cut. Praying I don't find oil or water. See: 'Anxiety'.


Cut, check, repeat.


More later. Once the heads are chopped up, the rest is cake (basically an 00VI swap). Eventually I'll get some pics of the upper and everything all bolted up, including some nicely lit shots of the UIM innards. Credit goes out to Harold for kicking my *** on this one.

 

This is great work! This is pretty much what my machinist and I thought needed to be done, but actually seeing results is great. A comment - you want to port-match the LIM and head ports closely, when using the Altima intake gaskets. Nice work on getting the injector port to line up with the new LIM - you might also want to remove the hump in the LIM port for cleaner air flow. Any measurements on how much the bolt/stud holes were moved inward?

I just picked up my LIM last night - I'm planning on trying a few things this weekend, when the outside temps get above single-digits. Porting on my heads will make me nervous, too. My machinist says that he has all the bits needed to change the bolt holes, so I may just grind the front of the LIM so it sits in place and spray some paint on the old 3.5 heads. If the glacier melts off my LandShark, I can make some measurements of the space available for the new UIM manifold, and what to do about the TB. I'm thinking about a 80mm TB, but not sure I need one w/nitrous. The turbo project may not, either.... ??

This little project is moving along nicely.

 

Glad you like it

- The LIM->heads will be port matched once I have the gaskets in hand, that's the easiest part. My block is at the honers right now, so I can't do the mockup at the moment.

- I plan on cleaning up the LIM to remove all the casting flaws, but unlike the old 3.5 LIM, the injector bumps on this one can't be shaved down very much at all due to a lack of wall thickness. The LIM is extemely thin in certain spots, especially near the upper flange, and the injector port bump is the same thickness throughout it's curve (the bump isn't 'added' on the inside, rather, that curve can be felt from the outside wall as well, so it can't be taken down very much, maybe 1mm). It will see some cartridge roll/flap wheel activity, but there's no way I would suggest holding a carbide to any section of the LIM ports.

- I'm not sure of the distance the stud/bolt holes need to be brought in, I literally held my aluminum carbide up through the bottom of the hole, and once it poked out, it was in the perfect spot. The hole needs to be pretty close to the edge of the circular surface/cuttaway that was machined out for the bolt's 'washer' or 'flange'. Once it's done, the head of the bolts will get caught up on the cuttaway and they won't sit flat/apply even pressure, but there are a few options to sit them down. A) either extend the machining of that cuttaway (1-2mm), B) drill out the hole of a washer that is the same thickness of the cuttaway and sit it down, C) shave down the 'flange' at the head of the bolt (like .5 mm cleared for me). I opted for option C, but plan on using a washer later on. Luckily there isn't a threat of breaking through into the LIM ports when relocating the bolt holes, they've got there own little section of aluminum, so there's plenty of room.

- The TB is still in the air for me. As you know there is NO room to port out the plenum, as that section is paper thin. I'll either mount the TB sideways (TPS down, cable arm UP) or devise a pipe-like adaptor to pull the mounting point out of the way. It's temping to cut out the whole 'thin' section where the TB mounting point seems to be 'pressed' into the plenum (as the actual plenum appears to get thicker) and then rebuild it with a bigger pipe for whatever size TB you want. I'm actually more skilled in working with plastics than metal, so I might do something stupid once I'm up and running on MAP. For now, I'll run it 'stock', but an 8K limit could use a few mm's on the TB. You and your damn 420 CFM.

Now the real question Harold. Are you going to front the 40 bucks for the fancy new engine cover?

 

Engine cover? I don't need no stinkin' engine cover.... I think I have a few still lying around, plus a new MEVI cover. Hmm... I wonder if that would fit, somehow?

"The LIM is extemely thin in certain spots, especially near the upper flange" -- no problem - ever heard of JB Weld? Wonderful epoxy...

I vote for the TB rotated 90* so that the cable wheels point up to clear the flapper - er... "power valve", right next to the TB location. A thick spacer/adapter will be required, I think

 

Damn nice work man !!

I ususally see stuff like this happen years down the road, glad to see your off to the races!!!

this looks promising, I would love to see the results.

gathering all intake manifold options and results to compare for myself right now

 

Now if we just had a flow bench available for testing.......

 

. . .you'd be convinced to pull out the flaps.

Got my fresh hones. I'll have pics of the port matching, the upper bolted down (M6x1.0 50mm's ), and an 'adapted' fuel rail setup, if all goes well.

 

Good - keep 'em coming.. waiting for your fuel rail design - but if there isn't flow-thru on both rails, you're asking for trouble. The stock design is good for stock engines, but air bubbles tend to collect at the far ends of the stock rails with modified engines. FWI'TsW..

I've found DIY flow bench designs for about $1,000, but they were 1-cylinder-at-a-time setups. If there was a way to flow one head with identical lift adjustments for three cylinders with intake manifolds attached, we could learn a lot more about intake manifolds and head porting.

Trailering my car 180 miles for a few dyno pulls isn't too bad, but that much fuel (8 MPG) costs as much as the dyno time. Going to a track has the same fuel costs and I may only get one pass in a day. Can't learn much that way - and it happens a lot. If I get three runs in one visit, I'm doing well. Need that flow bench...



P.S. I just bought a low-mileage 2001 Infiniti VLSD transmission in New Jersey and it will be delivered to IPT for analysis - and if it's acceptable to IPT, then my transmission super-build will commence ASAP.

IPT: http://www.importperformancetrans.com/

EDIT: On Friday, it was accepted for the build. Monday will be the day-of-the-deal, where all conditions are spelled out before $$ changes hands.

Here I go..

 

I'm planning a trip to KS when that thing is finished....

 

Nice day today - so I set up the LIM, ground down the two front ears so that it would sit down on the heads, and sprayed a little red paint into the mounting-bolt holes. This is self-aligning - you just need to get the front-to-back spacing correct. A micrometer says that each hole needs to be brought in 5-6 mm. It's at an angle so this is a quickie.

Placing the new gasket on the LIM shows that the gasket bolt holes are in the wrong place - the gaskets will need to be cut to match the older bolt locations. On the bright side, the intake openings in the gasket are larger than the LIM ports - plenty of room to accomodate ported heads -and the injector openings are already in the right place. At a minumum, the head ports will need some work to port-match the LIM and open up the injector opening.

The fuel rail mounts will need to be replaced unless the '07 or later stock fuel rails are used. I'm going to replace mine. This part of the 07VI project looks doable - almost simple. Just a good TB mounting remains for the UIM part.



UPDATED - Photos: Following "bam"s lead....

Grind off the two edges:








Spray some paint down into the injector and bolt holes:



And the places where holes need to be enlarged are clearly marked:






The new intake gasket will need to be ported for boltholes and intake port - depending on the head being used. I'm going to have the LIM glass-blasted when complete, then insulate it completely on the outside. I think a nice Cosworth blue will work, to match the motor, and heat pickup will then be non-existent with both manifolds when mounted. With a decal, this should be worth 30WHP ! J/K....


No one has commented on the machined edges on the top of the LIM ports, but I wonder if this was done to transition from the square UIM ports to the rounder LIM ports. This looks good "in person" - there are a couple of grinder marks down in the ports in my copy. It looks like someone was manually finishing the machine work in the entry to the LIM ports.

???

 

It's gotta be a little scary porting those cosworth heads! Glad to see this project coming along, keep it up

 

let us know how it goes

 

I think I'll just cram some wet cloths in each port and and use a rotary sander drum to open up the injector port area several mm, and transition out the head ports and LIM ports. The Cosworth heads have most of the work down deeper in the ports, and the valves are unshrouded considerably in each cylinder - to the extent of increasing two CCs in each one.

A small vacuum cleaner can pick up the mess afterwards.

 

LIM casting flaws get indented! Aluminum is getting to expensive too waste.


It's gotta go. Chop Chop chop (did not change the shape of the port at the flange)


Some wacky curves where the ports morph from rectangular to the oval runner into the head. Very 'straight and lengthy LIM (see side profile below), but twistier on the inside than a 30DE or old 2nd gen FWD 35DE.


Started shaving off some initial layers, going to cut up some measured lengths of metal stick to get them all even deeper into the port (looking to purchase an inside micrometer). LIM needs to come down on the floor, headports need to come down on the sides.





Final port matching will happen when the gaskets are in my hands, an aluminum specific carbide is what gives it the 'bark' texture. I looked into snipping down the old DE lower gaskets, but modifying the OEM 08 gaskets to fit the studs off the head offers a simpler guide. I'm debating whether portmatching an old cast 3.5 UIM to fit the heads for future comparisons is worth the effort.






LIM bolt hole modification from below. (and the outcome of a hot date with a Sunnen if you look below that).




The blend from rectangle to oval is seamless. A greater percentage of the length of the runner is taken up by the lower. Note the metal plate that runs 'through' the ports of the lower. It would be fairly simple to cut out a ratchet hole for the knock sensor . The upper is l-i-g-h-t.


Did someone say cooling fins? The rail mounts are all off, to the point where the regulators on the old stock 3.5 rail would need to be removed. I'm just going to purchase an OEM 07+ altima rail.



TB mouth and the notorious OEM variable secret sauce power valve.





Elbow port gets boxy. That little nipple at the top right corner up inside the plenum is intriguing. The vacuum hose to control the power-flaps connects to it, and it appears to have a large dial on the outside of the plenum that doesn't seem to turn.



Old power flap location. The bulk of an average sized arm fits in here.



Throttle body throat. Bottom flow gets tripped, upper flow get's a little squarish screen built into the round gasket (see grey's pics). The manifold is a type of nylon composite, and it appears as though pieces are 'pressed' into one another (and I'm guessing, thermoset).

All thats left is to finish the port match and trick up ye old pathy TB/IACV (either using a short plastic 2.75 inch tube with 2 flanges <-- not crazy about extending out in that diameter) or if I go with an A32 IACV remotely mounted, I'll adapt the TB with an aluminum spacer and an A32 IACV), the throat of the plenum at the TB is extremely thin. The fuel rail will bolt right on, and I'll get the VI flaps functioning (or not) later on when the engine is built and tuned.

 

So what are you trying to say here ???

 

It's a spammer, he posted that in like 6 threads I have subs to.

Grey, my IM turned out wonderfully, hoping this does for you too!

 

Now that you mention it, I do see his trash posts in other places.

I've kept an eye on your work lately. It's not beautimous, but the dyno says it rocks. You have two major contributions there - one, that a larger plenum volume will add top-end power, and two, that you can run a 3.5" inlet and MAF through a 70mm TB and expand back into a 3.5" elbow and make power. That one is a surprise. Kudos.... Weren't you going to apply thermal insulation on the manifold?

My 09 LIM is getting ears attached for the 4th-gen fuel rails, and "bam"s planning on using the later OEM rails, so we shall see... I love his latest photos. You did give me an idea - I can measure the plenum volume on the 08 UIM, using water displacement, for later reference. And, I do have a 3.5" MAF I built and never used - maybe later. I'm hoping to pick up the lower end some and stretch out the power curve up above 6500 - how high remains to be seen, depending on dynos.

Keep up the good work.