bamboomerang

iTrader: (14)

^ I had both UIM's out last night checking out the differences, water displacement is a great idea - I'd like to see the results. Just be sure to do it with the LIM attached since the 07VI upper runners take up much less of the tract). One interesting thing to note, the plenum is nearly 4 inches wider on the upper plane of the plenum alone. The new plenum is marginally thinner on the vertical axis, but the elbow runners are approx the same length, and the new one has a consistent port width and much thinner divider. With the approx 1mm smaller TB throat, the new VI also appears to promote a reduction in port diameter to drop pressure and increase velocity into the plenum. Then from there, with the larger/longer/straighter path of the LIM (and larger squarish runners from the plenum), the new DE also has a marginally smaller valve diameter and less cam overlap, which in my best guess is designed around cylinder filling derived from velocity rather than scavenging. With a modified head inlet and larger 1st/2nd gen DE valves, that pressure differential should be derived from nearly the same ratio, but slightly exaggerated in favour of upper RPM port tuning.

Considering the new altima's are dynoing what they are (260+) with only a tiny bit more OEM cam, cats in place and nothing but an intake, it's fair to assume the CFM is there, but it may not necessarily be a question of plenum volume. Obviously the power valves will allow for a broader range of pumping efficiency and a corresponding flatter torque curve, but the question - atleast in my mind - remains to be seen when it will run out of breath on the top end - especially with the power valves removed. AFAIK, these UIM's have not seen an extended rev limit so no one really knows.

Sparks: I'm glad the intake worked in favour of your goals. The most interesting thing for me, was to see what stock cams could yield with an unrestricted intake path (I assume your not seeing vacuum at WOT). Considering what the Z cam shoot-out yielded with an unrestricted IN/EX on various aftermarket cams (and slightly more dirvetrain losses), the numbers your car put down are highly impressive. Its great to see people pushing the boundary of an N/A VQ35!

The irony of this 07IM swap, is that neither of us will be running stock compression or heads, so a baseline/UIM difference still won't be known. As it stands now, Harold will run his as a true dual plane, and I'll be running mine as a variable 'ssim' so to speak, typical 35de block off and functioning 3-stage pass side power valve.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

I was thinking that the plenum consists of all volume from the TB up to where the runners start. This should define the common volume that each cylinder can draw from. ????

bamboomerang

iTrader: (14)

That would work too, how would you know when the plenum is 'full'? Plexiglass blockoff plate/peephole? Really curious to see this.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

How about this? Block any vacuum outlets, insert and tighten both flapper valves, then push the UIM underwater with the TB location downwards until the water level rises to the place you marked where the runners enter the plenum, put your wet cloth into the water and place tightly over the TB opening, raise the UIM out of the water and place over large container, then allow water to empty from the TB opening. Measure the volume of the water and you have the volume of the plenum.

bamboomerang

iTrader: (14)

Ok. But how will you measure the point when the water 'fills' the plenum and touches the opening for the runners? Can't exactly see inside the plenum from the runner where it mates to the lower. Whats the trick?

Love the liquid CC'ing idea. Next chance I get, I'm going to fill up and compare the volume of the LIM/UIM, curious to know the overall difference since the LIM ports are huge. The power valves are pretty fat too, they probably occupy 75+ ml's on their own.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

That's the same way you measure combustion chamber volume. When you port heads and unshroud valves, you need to know how much volume you add, because extra volume lowers the compression ratio. My heads have 2cc more volume than stock, dropping a nominal 11:1 to 10.6:1 CR.

How? can you look into one or both of the side ports and determine where the runners begin? Mark a line on the outside of the UIM and lower the manifold into the water to that point, keeping the manifold more or less level with the runners. You just filled the plenum volume - close enough for government work, anyway...

bamboomerang

iTrader: (14)

Spray paint and submersion are perfectly acceptable measuring techniques in my book.

I'll be at 11.5:1, maybe. No 94 for miles.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Hmmm.... I wonder.... is it wrong to baptize engine parts?

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

My understanding (and what has worked with my calculations for intake resonance) is that the elbow itself actually functions as part of the intake when the TB is open at WOT.

IMO the best way to measure plenum volume is to put tape over the runners inside the plenum (wide duct tape would probably stick easiest, may require some cleaning after) and use sand. Fill the entire plenum minus the elbow, then pour the sand in a container and measure how much.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

On a side note - my IPT transmission goes on a truck today. Should take 3-4 days to arrive at my shop, then we shall see. I have a Pathy '01 TB on order now, and some misc. TB spacers, gaskets, and a chunk of 1" aluminum just in case. Maybe I can make a TB adapter long enough to clear the new UIM...



Maybe the Secret Sauce Intake Manifold should be changed to the Sparks Super Intake manifold?

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

I got my 2001 Pathy TB and some 1" aluminum stock, in case I need to do some custom work. I also brought in a 90mm TB for comparison pixs. On first pass, it appears that the flapper valve next to the intake port will have to come out and be blocked off. Then something custom needs to be done to mount the TB at a 45* angle...... I'm still waiting for a Maxima TB 1" spacer - and the LIM, too.

bamboomerang

iTrader: (14)

^ If you're blocking off the IACV port on the TB, if you rotate it 90 degrees clockwise (cable arm up, TPS down) - will the 'bottom' of the TB clear the passenger side flapper hardware? If it does, with a 1 inch adaptor, you could weld on a cable bracket that extends back over the plenum and call it a day.

My hopes of using a pathy IACV and maintaining clearance for the flapper are dwindling : )

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

If you rotate the TB 90*, with the cable arms up, you can't close the hood. Always keep hood clearance in mind, and in this case, there isn't enough. Nothing like parts-in-hand to decide how to put things together. I have a small dent in the hood to remind me of that. The Pathy IACV port will be filled with JB weld.

My plans at the moment (until I get the Maxima TB spacer) is that I will have to extend the TB mount so it will clear. You can't rotate 180* because of the TPS. Maybe some other solution will become obvious once I get the LIM and mount the assembly on my old motor.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

I'm going to need to weld some aluminum nozzles tubes on support plates for direct-port nitrous, so I went out and found a cheap BenzoMatic MAPP/oxygen torch that gets really hot, and used that to "braze" two pieces of aluminum together - strong enough to be able to bend one piece without breaking loose. The aluminum rod can be purchased at Harbor Freight, and the torch I just picked up at Home Depot. ($60)








Also, this is what my present 3.5 Pathy TB looks like: I Think I can extend a TB spacer with some 3" Aluminum pipe and still have the TB clear the new manifold but work with the existing intake scoop and MAF.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

I drove home today with the IPT transmission installed - and working great. Shifts are very fast and crisp, even running at normal pressure and with the stock TCU doing the shifting. Tomorrow or Friday I'll boost the internal pressure and re-connect the ShiftFast - and see what it can do.

new engine - done
new transmission - done
new EU - pending
new intake manifold - pending, the LIM needs welding, the UIM needs TB
new direct-port nitrous - pending the final UIM decision

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

I HATE YOU!!!!! I WANT AN IPT TRANNY!!!!!! lol

Thats awesome man, how much did the tranny cost in total?

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Well, I know you would really enjoy one. Just driving in "stock" mode the shifts were immediate but not harsh. There was no delay in shifting or that irritating "slide" between gears as it shifts. I don't think Grandma could tell the difference - and I'm using Amsoil Racing ATF fluid, with no friction modifiers. After everything warmed up, it went up to 4th gear and then locked the TC normally. It was actually pleasant to drive around. Of course, I haven't tried the fun part yet - maybe tonight.

Hmmmm... this means I can sell the Level10 VB from the old one.... (2000-2001)

The price? Maybe you should look it up yourself:

The RE4F04B ( actually VLSD - "V") http://www.importperformancetrans.com/

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

Nice work buddy. I too am gonna let IPT do my tranny once I get the 2nd car and time.

It should be too hard to get a spacer block for the IM and counter sink the holes.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Hey... I had just talked to Ty at IPT this morning about T-shirt and decals, and told him the tranny was in and working good... He said the company's founder built this one, since it's intended for over 600HP, and they do have a series of tests they perform while they build one. When they ship, they're pretty sure it's gonna work right.

I took the Shark out for a drive around noon today, and I'm still impressed. There is none of that lazy feel that a stock tranny has when driving around. I swear the car feels quicker now. Tonight I'll boost the pressure and use the ShiftFast.

I really need to figure out something for that IM and the Pathy TB. A single spacer isn't thick enough to allow the TB to clear everything, so a tube with the proper flange on both ends is all I can think of at the moment. Sigh...

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

It will be cheaper with a pipe and 2 ends for sure. Just get like 1/2 inch plates welded to a 3" diam pipe about 3-4in long. You might need a bracket to help hold it up since there will be more stress on the im side.

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

Harold, was your experience pleasant with IPT, how did you go about getting the tranny did you send them yours? What was the turnout around time like? if you want you can PM me so we dont fill the thread with off topic stuff.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Well, it's my thread.... and this is a long process, and the ORG needs some entertainment, so - yes, IPT (in New Jersey) is a stand-up company to do business with. The free T-shirt sold me. They need your core to build from, so I looked around in car-part.com and found an Infiniti VLSD for $450 at a yard 16 miles from IPT (and they delivered locally for free) so I bought this transmission and had it delivered to IPT after I made the deal with them. IPT wanted to inspect it before accepting it for the build, but the yard tranny was fine. Within two weeks of them accepting it, it was sitting here in town and was installed the next day by my shop. That was yesterday, I drove it away in the afternoon, went back w/wife and picked up my pickup with the old tranny and pallet loaded in the back of my tow truck. Now I have to pull the Level10 VB and junk the rest.

It was expensive doing things this way, but everything worked out.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Yeah, I was thinking along those same lines - that's why I bought the chunk of 1" 6061 aluminum from eBay. It will take a while to cut out two pieces, make a 3" hole in them, drill each plate to match the IM and Pathy TB, and weld everything together, but that looks like the best choice. Good point about the support bracket, but since I'll need a mount for the cables, maybe I can use a piece of AL to do both jobs. I can work on this once I'm sure the LIM is going to fit.

bamboomerang

iTrader: (14)

Whoa didn't see all those pics.

My original plan was to use a pipe with two flanges to extend out the TB past the flapper hardware. The problem is, the TB opening on the elbow is only 70ish mm's and material cannot be removed to open it up (1 mm tops) - it is unbelievably thin.

So, that setup would require possibly
1) a 2.75 inch ID pipe to extend it out a few inches and mate the UIM to the pathy TB with the same approximate diameter (chokey at that length [more so to clear the hardware than a blockoff] at that point in the velocity profile IMO, but possible).
2) A larger (say 3 inch) extension pipe that either:
a) tapers from a larger TB down to 70mm's at the UIM or
b) steps up and then back down a 1/4 inch from the stock TB size.

Although all possible, I imagine all these options (the best being 2a, which would be easy with 2 separate 1 inch blockoffs sandwiched together) to be a hindrance/downgrade over the stock setup. Anyone have any other ideas? I'm leaning towards a modified/shortened cable arm pointing upwards with a 1/2 inch spacer/adaptor.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

I bought a bi-metal Lenox 3" hole saw today and was drilling a 3" hole through my piece of 1" aluminum, but the cut pretty much stopped at about 1/4". I wonder if the aluminum work-hardened on me? - the hole saw teeth are still sharp enough to ***** my finger. Since I also want to try brazing aluminum tubing to the end plates, I think I'll order a plate of 1/4" aluminum and a short piece of 3" aluminum tubing and A) cut a 3" hole in two pieces of 4" x 4" x1/4" aluminum and B) use my baby welding torch to braze everything together, with the TB plate rotated about 45*. I don't need 1" material to do the job, now that I've gotten into this a bit.

I'll worry about velocity issues later. Oh, and my LIM is still waiting for a welder to attach two tabs for the 4th gen fuel rail configuration, The rest is done. Glass-blasted and the upper runners drum-sanded to fit.

The transmission is still fun to drive. I found that the new tranny filter had sprung a leak, so I replaced it with a spare. The fun continues.....

bamboomerang

iTrader: (14)

Glass-blasted and the upper runners drum-sanded to fit.

EH?? you smoothed out the plastic inside the runners on the upper? got pics?

The quality control was a little iffy inside the plastic runners on my unit, not sure about the type of nylon composite, but the manufacturing process/assembly on these seems way different from the 00vi. All the internal parts (elbow, plenum, runners) appear to be made out of thin sheets of plastic that are 'pressed' in to fit one another, resulting in seams throughout the inside that aren't visible on the outside.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

No, no - the upper parts of the "LIM" runners are cleaned up.... no pix of that, yet. I don't see a good way to port the UIM - unless the manifold can be split horizontally and the top taken off for cleanup, then re-bonded back together. Hmmmm.... would that also be a way to expand the plenum?

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

If you could work with the plastic, most certainly. Plenum volume seems pretty important.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Your work seems to say the plenum volume is very important. Trouble is, with this plastic manifold, there are no good ways to enlarge it. The stock 3.5 IM is just 1/2" under the hood, so you can't go up. The bottom of the plenum sits down against the rear valve cover, so that's out. Removing the flapper (VIAS) thingies and capping those two openings may give some volume, but the TB still needs clearance on that side. There is about three inches between the elbow and the firewall, so major surgery there could pick up a couple of inches by moving the elbow back and enlarging the plenum to rebuild the elbow.

I think that any plenum changes will have to wait until everything else is working correctly - and I actually measure the plenum volume.

bamboomerang

iTrader: (14)

I might get a chance to measure the volume this weekend. The upper plane alone is 4 inches wider, to say the least. . . if you really wanted more volume for whatever reason, you could easily make some sort of a 'bowl' or 'box' shaped blockoff on the passenger side. I'd also like to know the height difference/hood clearance differences, if you got to it first Harold.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

Like I said, I'll leave the plenum volume issue until I have everything else working with the 07VI manifold. I wonder if sparks has considered the available space in a 4th gen compared to his 2003 Max? I know the "stock" IM I'm using just barely clears the hood, and the elbow is pretty close to the firewall. I can make some measurements of mine and post them - maybe there's more room than I remember.

I set my new transmission to shift from my ShiftFast and went for a drive last night - first with normal pressure and then with boosted pressure. Holeekrap! Even under WOT through the gears (set to shift at 6K cause the engine revs so fast that it hits rev-limiter otherwise) the shifts are immediate and tire-chirping. When I go to high pressure mode, the shifts are so hard and fast that the car jumps - and normal driving is just as hard. Probably not a good idea on the street.... And yet when the tranny is connected to the stock TCU and pressure is set to normal, the car is almost stock-shifting - just faster. Amazing...

EDIT - I just picked up my LIM over lunch - glass-blasted, ported, new tabs welded on for 4th gen rails.. pix later. The 1/4" AL plate is supposed to come today...

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

I installed the LIM onto the old 3.5 engine, and mounted the UIM on it. Everything seems to fit. There's a group of photos to look at here.

Some porting will be required, but I knew that. The 4th gen fuel rails will fit. Dang, this is gonna work!












More to come

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

Yeah I wouldn't touch it until you have baseline numbers to compare with.

I hadn't previously considered how much space you guys have, but I have been talking to aaron in depth about the space in his turd gen.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

I'm going to make some measurements of the space occupied by the SSIM in my 4th genner, based, I think, on distance from the top of the manifold to the bottom of the hood (influenced by the hood bracing), then distances from the SSIM to the rear firewall, and location of the TB upwards, to the rear firewall and over to the shock tower. These are semi-universal reference points, and with stock motor mounts, should apply to most 3.5 installations.

I'm mostly doing this to see if there are any problems with the 07IV project before I start pulling parts out of the car. The Mark I eyeball says it's all good, but......

bamboomerang

iTrader: (14)

It's looking good. Are the injector ports on the cossies the same as stock? I'm guessing you'll have less runner diameter porting than I need.

Aside from playing the with flappers, I'm not focking with the UIM either, the new engines make power to redline without a single dip in the curve juuuust like the 00VI, but cheaper : )

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

If you mean the injector hump on the Cosworth intake port, yes, it's the same as the 3.5L 350Z port shape - except it's about 2mm larger bore. The shape is not quite the same as the '08 LIM, so some touch-up porting work on the LIM is required, as I've mentioned before. I'm going to take out the flappers and make blockoff plates from 1/8" black ABS plastic, then cut off the weird screws and seal the two holes. The intake gaskets will need some serious surgery, too....

I've been cleaning up the Pathy TB, but with family from Texas visiting this weekend, not much done. Maybe tomorrow. I want to have the UIM and TB completely ready before I dissect my car. We progress.....

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

I like this IM alot, it should definitely make good power.




Here is an 07 Altima dyno. It definitely makes better top end power.