CyMax

iTrader: (5)

Ok after driving Max hard today I never got him above 5100- MABYE 5400 RPM before shift. So why on earth should I care about the last 1k of RPM?? I'm not going to the track so WTF?? What is the purpose of the VTC's really?? Just a ploy to be able to state HP and TQ numbers? If I'm wrong help me understand why I should care about the VTC's if I'm not going a-racing???

CyMax

iTrader: (5)

Ok after driving Max hard today I never got him above 5000- MABYE 5100 RPM before shift. So why on earth should I care about the last 1k of RPM?? I'm not going to the track so WTF?? What is the purpose of the VTC's really?? Just a ploy to be able to state HP and TQ numbers? If I'm wrong help me understand why I should care about the VTC's if I'm not going a-racing???

ProfessionalMax

I'm brand new here. Got a 1992 Pearl white SE/Auto. VTC's (volunteers for what that stands for?) sound like a 1983 Mercedes Turbo Diesel at startup. Nissan Pimps said it would cost over $2000 to fix. I read what you guys had to say, but how feasible is it to fix these things myself?

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

V=varaible
T=timing
C=control

To replace the vtc's you really need to have more then moderate mechanical skills...Not for the beginner....

To ground them is fairly easy,it should quiet them down for you a little..Here is a website that will show you how to ground them....

http://www.geocities.com/craigbrace/ goto the HOW TO section....

lanedrifters

iTrader: (4)

Another thought, do you think the clattering would be enough to interfere with or cause false knock sensor triggering? That would cause noticable power loss..

valz23

iTrader: (1)

Hey! I'm new here as well. This is my 2nd Maxima, I had a 90 SE, so this problem is new to me. I just got my car and it's doing the same thing. I looked around the web for a while and here is the best description of the problem I found:

"ngine:
VE30DE

System:
Engine Mechanical


Symptom:
Top engine noise
This engine has a variable timing control (VTC) system. The intake camshafts are advanced by using oil pressure on the intake camshaft sprockets under certain conditions. Oil pressure to the sprockets is controlled by the VTC solenoids, and the solenoids in turn are controlled by the engine computer (PCM).

The common cause of top engine noise on this engine has been the intake camshaft sprockets themselves. The VTC solenoids are "off" when cam timing is not being advanced. When the VTC solenoids are turned "on" by the PCM, intake camshaft timing is advanced.

To determine if the noise is coming from the VTC sprockets, unplug the VTC solenoids and energize each solenoid. The power supply to the VTC solenoids is the red wire with black tracer (R/B), so jump the battery voltage supply to the solenoid that the R/B wire goes to. When the noise is present at idle, jump the other terminal of the VTC solenoid to ground. This is the yellow wire with green tracer going to it. This will energize or turn "on" the VTC solenoid and results in pressurizing the sprocket and advancing the cam timing.

Energize one VTC solenoid at a time to see if the noise decreases or goes away. Also energize both solenoids at the same time. Is the noise gone? If it is, a new spring assembly can be installed in the VTC sprocket to tighten it up and correct the problem. The sprocket needs to be pressed apart to replace this spring. Make sure to scribe a mark on the sprocket before pressing it apart so the sprocket can be reassembled in the same alignment, or a noise could result.

Other causes of top engine noise on these engines: timing chain tensioner noise, debris in an oil galley restricting oil to the VTC sprockets or chain tensioner, or from the hydraulic lifters themselves ... although the noise is seldom from the lifters.

Note: Nissan's TSB No. NTB95-022 addresses this issue. "

Here is my question, shouldn't this mean that if I grounded it, I would loose power at the low RPM, not the high?
Also, can anybody give a good description of taking VTC off and rebuilding them? I'm sure I can do it myself, but I can't find any good info on it, and I'd like to have some, would make me feel a lot safer when I do it. So can anybody help?

Greeny

iTrader: (43)

You need to have the FSM to do this job....

valz23

iTrader: (1)

Actually I just sold my everyday driver, a 12-second DSM (my 2nd), and with that car I went through 2 engines, both times I changed them in my drive way. I'm sure I could rebuild a VTC myself, and if I can't, I have a real good freind who owns a shop and who's been working as a mechanic for over 20 years, I'm sure he'll give me a hand. It's just it would be nice to get directions from somebody who's done it before. Like some of you guys mentioned, there are plenty of Nissan cert. mechanics who can't do the job right, so not matter how much experience one has, it's always nice to have directions.

Mizeree_X

iTrader: (9)

The directions are in the FSM. Its a 50+ step process, no one has done a true writeup because if you aren't following the FSM, you probably shouldn't be doing it no matter how skilled you are. The FSM is available for download if you look hard enough.

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Here is a link that has a lot of pictures of the VTC rebuild job. CraigB took these when I went over to DaveP's house while the guys and awsm66 were swapping motors.

This might help a lot of people here:

http://community.webshots.com/album/228997037rnrRbN/1

valz23

iTrader: (1)

Thanks a lot for the pics! I have a question, I've been trying to research this issue on this website, but neather the search, nor the FAQ sre seem to be working. I'm sure this subject has been posted here many times before. What's the best way to go about searching this site?
Thank you!

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

They make you donate before they allow you to search. I think you have to pay $20. I've been here for so long that I was happy to donate.

They originally took away the search function b/c it was using too much bandwidth.

The FAQs that they are referring to, you will find at the top of the 3rd gen forum. They will be labeled as Stickies. There is a lot of info about VTCs there.

Another way to search this site is to do an Advanced Google search. Specify the domain "maxima.org" and only search that domain. You will get some results that way, but they will only be really old threads that the Google spider has already crawled.

tman

bumping this question - curious about this myself. how much real-world difference do the VTCs really make?

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

If you only reving the VE to 5400 rpm, you ain't even trying. My Ve with mods + JWT ecu is still PULLING when it hits the raised limiter at 7200-ish rpm.

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

The VTCs give you added low end power. At around 4500-5000, they release and allow the DOHC VE motor to breath like it was designed to and still make gobs of power above 6K. My VE pulls like crazy all the way up to my stock rev limit, 6650. But, when the VTCs are grounded, you can noticably tell that I have lost power above 5K all the way to redline. The motor still makes plenty of noise as it roars above 6K, but it doesn't go as fast as it should.

So, there is plenty of real world difference by having the VTCs grounded. But if you never take your VE above 5K, then ground them, be happy. You won't notice any difference in acceleration. But if you're like me and the majority of the people on this board that have a VE, then you take it to redline almost every day.

Since mine are still ticking, even after my failed VTC repair attempt, I wired a switch that allows me to ground them easily from inside the car. I only ground them when I'm in parking lots and I feel embarassed to have what people think is a diesel under the hood.

Grace_Imports

iTrader: (1)

I called Courtesy to order the VTC repair kits yesterday...I think the guy was new because he wanted to ask another rep about them. The other guy said the kits were useless and I should replace them with new units at the tune of $800. That ain't gonna happen. He faxed me a page that showed the cams, chains, guides, and tensioners but it didn't have the breakdown of the VTCs. I found the TSB regarding VTCs online. It gives the part number so I ordered them per the part number. Incidentally, I called the local Nissan stealer...that guy said that the part number was good but did not apply to my engine (VE) I don't think he even knew the difference. Anyway, the springs are on order from Courtesy. These are going into a complete rebuild with all new timing components so I am hoping for no noise except from the Greddy exhaust that arrived today! WOOHOO!!!

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Good luck with that! So you ordered two of the VTC rebuild kits for the VE30DE motor? I hope you don't get the wrong parts. Just so you know, the VTC rebuild kit will have a VTC sprocket end cap, a little gasket for the cap, and a new spring.

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

exactly! thank you

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

only way to tell would be to monitor the ignition timing in real time

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

I'll tell you what, if you need help I'll lend a hand, time permitting

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

The FSM sucks


premade particle board cabinets come with better instructions

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

atleast give credit to the guy that came up with that method of rebuilding them

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

the flywheel makes a big difference too though, along with the VTC's


mine used to pull HARD to redline and then try to run past it.

The part number for the VTC rebuild kit should be: 13072-97E00
The kit's are not side specific, they are identical

Glad to hear you bought the GReddy, you will be extremely happy with it. You cannot buy a better exhaust . Once you're done your going to have one happy car (and I think you will be quite pleased yourself)

Also people should realize the VTC's, like the VE 5spd Power Valve, are primarily load based and RPM is only used as a guideline. The VTC's are not grounded by default which was implied earlier. If you know your car well enough (and have a 5spd as you have much more control) you can go the entire RPM range from idle to redline without the VTC's grounding once (wouldn't do it where other cars are around as it will take a while, again if you know your car you'll know what I mean).

If you have a basic understanding of how a camshaft determines an engines behavior it is very easy to see how it all works and why. You will also realize 'hey, if I do this, then this will happen', and you might be surprised with what you can do . Bumpsticks are the heart and soul of an engine, and with seperate intake and exhaust cams we have an extra degree of 'freedom' to play in which those with 1 or 2 cams (ie. intake and exhaust valves share the same cam) do not have. Of course you would still need new cams if you wanted to play with lift and duration.

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

I don't know what method you are talking about. I was just linking the pics CraigB took.

Grace_Imports

iTrader: (1)

Neither Courtesy or the local stealer could come up with the kit so I had them order the part number on the TSB which is 13072-97EOO. They were about $30 a piece x 2. I hope to have the short block assembled this weekend and it completed next weekend. It's getting cold up here so I'd like to have her running before it's too cold.
I would add the importance of oil changes and keeping passages free and clear to get oil where it's supposed to go. The old 5MGE Toyotas were notorious for cams and followers going bad which was very costly to repair. I would always find a small clogged oil passage near each lifter from lack of maintenance. The last time I priced the cams followers and lifters were over $1200. Even machine shops would miss cleaning them. I know it's a different engine but the principal still applies.

VEvolution

So how often to you guys think oil changes should be done to prevent the VTCs from coming back since it's the next best thing you can do from letting it happen again. 2500 or 3000? Maybe 2000?

valz23

iTrader: (1)

Thank you! I'll try to start on it next week, I'll let you know if I have any???

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

the 2" peice of tubing, socket, and hammer method to rebuilding VTC's was a trick I came up with and posted how to do in mid 04. Prior to that, everyone thought you had to use a press.

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

no prob. I don't envy you though (getting them off the engine with it still in the car kind of sucks, it's completely doable, just a tight squeeze compared to other things).

I have a spare assembly or two laying around aswell. It is actually very simple.

Also I was talking with the parts manager at the Bellevue Nissan (on NE 8th) about the VTC kits. He's never heard of them before, but could get them once I gave him the part number (I couldn't remember it off the top of my head). I was going to try and set up something for VE guys who couldn't find the kits, he said he would be able to do out of state orders

The last few times I had to drive to Younker, Performance, and Burien Nissan to get parts. I had the best luck with Performance, but Bellevue seems good aswell and it's a drive I don't mind making

lanedrifters

iTrader: (4)

Being that the knock map is only a couple of degrees off, i would think that monitoring the knock sensor voltage(ac) would be better, but my vtc's dont clatter so i cant test it...

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

true, I guess they both do the same thing, although monitoring the knock might be better.



come to think of it, I've done that before on my SAFC-II. Didn't notice a difference.

VEvolution

Lucky guy.. Rebuilt? If not, mileage?

lanedrifters

iTrader: (4)

Rebuilt, Ive got a couple sets of old ones too. Ive got a hard copy of the tsb for rebuilding and cleaning oil gallies too if anyone would like a copy.(Wont be tonite though, I get to work!!

valz23

iTrader: (1)

\

I live in Seattle, by the way. I just talked to the Burien Nissan lady, and she said it would take just a few days to get one. My mom lives in Burien, so I'll order them there tommorow. If you have a spare assembly to practice on, I'd buy it from you cheap. Let me know.

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

Make sure you order 2 of those kits.


I'm in Issaquah

Cliff Clavin

iTrader: (11)

Do any of you guys look in the For Sale section?

I have a NEVER USED rebuilt set of VTCs for sale...I am in Oregon and you could get them in a matter of days.

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=427052